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Post by wingt74 on Jan 16, 2008 11:59:38 GMT -6
The kids I coached this past season...we have 1 Mexican kid, 4 Arabian kids, 1 black kid, 1 oriental kid (think he was Chinese) and 20+ white kids.
At times during the season, kids talked to each other in ways I couldn't believe. They didn't call each other the worst of the bunch racial slurs (N word, etc) but made reference to racial sterotypes...like our black player was the best dancer, do remember a "towel head" coming out, oriental kid being told to go eat some rice, that kind of stuff. But they all laughed about it.
All these I would never use personally, but, I admit I let go during practice. It wasn't to common...
And, back when I played, we were about 1/2 white 1/2 black with a mixture of mexican and oriental. I won't even go into the things we did/said to each other, but we were a VERY tight group who to this day if I ran into just about any of them, a hug and a handshake would follow. And despite all the racial stuff we said did to each other, no one ever had a problem.
BUT
I'm thinking now...to be on the safe side...I'm going to have to address this kind of talk, and not allow it anymore. Potentially punishing kids (not potentially, I guess I will have to punish) for using it.
Wondering if other coach's have done anything similar to this...or how they have handled similar groups of kids?
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 16, 2008 12:14:11 GMT -6
We have the same stuff go one here. Mostly white and black, with some asian kids mixed in here and there. We have white kids calling other white kids "nigga" as in the your my boy context. Hell sometimes the black kids will call a white kid that and vice versa but its like them saying "what's up friend". So I don't know how to address that so I havn't.
In the context you describe it sounds like they are making fun of eachother but in a playfull mannor since they are all close friends. That might need a quick talking to.
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 16, 2008 12:18:44 GMT -6
I had a little problem this year. We are a very multicultural school. From race to class. we have some kids that come from a very wealthy background and some that could not afford the physical fee and cleats.
I was walking through the locker room early in the season and one of our guys (white) made a stereotype joke about another player(black). Right when I heard it I got madder then they have ever saw me. Both kids and other kids where all laughing when the joke was made and then when they saw my reaction they all had the most shocked look on their face. It never happened after that. If you let it go only bad things can happen. I hope by you letting it go in the past it does not come back to haunt you. It needs to be addressed ASAP and stick to it.
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Post by knighter on Jan 16, 2008 13:19:35 GMT -6
I am as diverse as they come i my current job. NOT TOLERATED AT ALL. Simple enough?
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Post by airman on Jan 16, 2008 14:24:11 GMT -6
nothing that 25 up downs will not take care of each time you hear a joke, word or phrase. better tell them ahead of time.
I personallly do not tolerate that kind of stuff along with poor treatment or girls or swearing.
I have suburban white kids who think they need to talk like gangsters. well they did tell I started cracking down.
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Post by k on Jan 16, 2008 14:26:51 GMT -6
One warning and you wouldn't be welcome back. Goes for "{censored}" too.
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zwaps
Freshmen Member
Posts: 29 
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Post by zwaps on Jan 16, 2008 14:33:54 GMT -6
It's never good to just disallow something without explanation.
Talk about it.
You have reason and truth on your side. Racism can not harm you or your principles.
Racism is emotional and primitive. The worst thing you can do is to just disallow them coping with this thematic.
Group dynamics are complex. Try to understand what this is? Maybe they are really good friends. Imagine a real racist coming in there. He would certainly not be welcome.
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Post by airman on Jan 16, 2008 14:43:46 GMT -6
It's never good to just disallow something without explanation. Talk about it. You have reason and truth on your side. Racism can not harm you or your principles. Racism is emotional and primitive. The worst thing you can do is to just disallow them coping with this thematic. Group dynamics are complex. Try to understand what this is? Maybe they are really good friends. Imagine a real racist coming in there. He would certainly not be welcome. i agree with talking about it while they are doing their up downs. i explain why it is not acceptable. |
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 16, 2008 14:58:30 GMT -6
In a way, its a positive sign. Kids are are getting along well and mocking stereo types as well as racial slurs. HOWEVER, if it bothers YOU or any ONE person on that team, staff, institution, or community. It has to be stop. As a matter of fact if it bothers or concerns you that much let them know and set some guidelines for dealing with it if it continues.
IMHO you need address it with the team regardless of your decision to let it go or not. Find out from them what they think about it. And tell them how you feel about it. Make sure they understand how damaging those comments or "jokes" could be to someone NOT in their circle.
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Post by brophy on Jan 16, 2008 15:28:28 GMT -6
this may be in left-field, but I am just curious how this situation should be handled..... Your team is 100% white boys  Jumping around hollering, one of your excited players exclaims, " lets GO you crazy Crackas!"does everyone run? |
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Post by airman on Jan 16, 2008 15:49:55 GMT -6
nope. see in todays p.c. world(i am not talking IMB or MAC either) it would be okay. see white boys saying cracker would be okay cause they are not at victim status. they are not part of the hyphen crowd. meaning they do not have hyphen infront of their status group ie affrican-american, jewish-american, irish-amercian, mexican-american and so on. the Hyphen crowd can also use cracker as a term to discribe the white, hetrosexual male and not be seen as racist.
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 16, 2008 15:56:20 GMT -6
This is an interesting subject to me because in my experience, this differs greatly from program to program. Some coaches don't tolerate any swearing etc, while some coaches say they don't but they themselves use bad language etc, still others don't have any stance on it. My personal opinion follows:
1. If a word or phrase or name would be considered inappropriate in a classroom then it won't be accepted on the field either.
2. If coaches are going to have expectations, they must model them. Nothing in my opinion is more hypocritical than a foul mouthed coach who doesn't allow swearing. To me it's a discipline issue. If a coach can't model self-discipline, how can he expect it from his players.
3. When a player says, "oh coach, we were just kidding" or "he knows I'm kidding"(this could be regarding language, racial slur, name calling, etc.) I explain it as follows: One of the things you need to learn in order to be successful in life, is that different situations, call for different behavior. The type of situations I'm trying to prepare you for our formal in nature i.e. school, jobs, careers. You must learn how to act in those situations. Examples - Removing your hat when you enter a building, looking someone in the eye when you speak to them, firm hand shake, answering yes or no as opposed to huh? or yeah, and of course using proper language.
3.5 I also explain to them that when they are in practice, on a bus, on the field etc with the team then they represent the team. And that means they have a responsibility to represent the team properly. Perception is reality. If a fan or a bystander hears a racial slur(even it's meant in a joking manner) then they will perceive our team to be a bunch of racists.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 16, 2008 18:10:38 GMT -6
For us, it doesn't matter who says what to whom. A racial slur is a racial slur. Joking, pal-ing around, or using it in hate way...it doesn't matter. The kid that said it, whatever racial slur it may be, is paying the consequence for it. In brophy's example, consequences would follow. Plain and simple, we don't tolerate it.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 16, 2008 18:18:16 GMT -6
It's almost like the word "niggA" is a totally different word than it ending in "ER". To me it has a totally different meaning. I wouldn't call it a racial slur at all. It ending in "ER" is a racial slur. Both words should be in the dictionary with totally different definitions. It's no different than someone say "what up bro"
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Post by carookie on Jan 16, 2008 18:22:24 GMT -6
Lets put it this way; what if a Hyper PC parent overheard her son being called a racist term, while in your presence, and you not doing anything about it. Whether or not it was joking or not you can easily trace this story to its logical end (Admin, School Board, Punishment of you).
I too think its a great thing that football brings together kids from all kinds of backgrounds, and that these kids jokingly use these terms in my oppinion shows that these racist terms and steroetypes are losing their denotative meanings and evolving into more fraternal terms; but it aint worth taking food off of my sons plate to let them use a word.
Sit 'em down, tell them you understand they don't mean anything by it, but as an employee of the school YOUR rear end is on the line. They should respect that, and save yourself some problems.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 16, 2008 18:47:04 GMT -6
It's almost like the word "niggA" is a totally different word than it ending in "ER". To me it has a totally different meaning. I wouldn't call it a racial slur at all. It ending in "ER" is a racial slur. Both words should be in the dictionary with totally different definitions. It's no different than someone say "what up bro" with a team, a coach had better treat both of them the same. Would the school board view them differently and say that it is okay in one ending but not in another ending? Would the parents of any and EVERY ethnic background see the two as different words? If a parent took issue with a coach saying either one, I'm pretty sure he would be shown the  VERY QUICKLY. And, after all, if a coach can't say a word, for whatever reason, why would we allow our kids to? |
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 16, 2008 19:03:44 GMT -6
You'd better end it (racial slurs) in the most explicit and direct way you can.
Can you just say, "This type of behavior will never be tolerated"?
It isn't that tough and kids REALLY do know what is right.
If you ALLOW to let it continue and you are eventually called into a harassment or a racial harassment suit - good luck.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 16, 2008 19:06:09 GMT -6
I'm not saying I wouldn't address it but the context in which it is spoken will determine if a punishment or suspension is needed. Some of the parents use the wordwith their friends so it doesn't set a good example for their kids.
Also the level you're coaching make a difference too. When I coached college I never heard it but if I heard it in a friendly mannor I wouldn't say anything. In highschool I would say I don;t wanna hear it when I'm around. Middle school no matter what the context is I would treat it more seriously, playfull or not.
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Post by k on Jan 16, 2008 19:55:57 GMT -6
The idea that the word "Cracker" is any where in the same ball park as "{censored}" shows that you're completely out of touch with reality.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 16, 2008 20:07:28 GMT -6
I have to admit, reading this thread, and giving this a ton of thought...I have to agree with those that have a 100% policy against it.
15 years ago I played in an environment that allowed it, it was harmless, we had fun with it. 99% of the kids today would see it that way whether they said it, or their teammates said it. But that 1%...complains. And being that this is a VERY sensative subject now-a-days. I am no longer going to take that chance.
I address a lot of things at the start of the season...this is just going to have to be another.
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Post by deaux68 on Jan 16, 2008 20:17:30 GMT -6
Still shocks me everytime I hear a kid drop the "N" word and nobody reacts to it. Where I come from, I would've had my butt whipped if I dropped it.
I hear it about 2 times a month.
Initially I would go ape over it. Then I thought about it. In this PC world and race relations and the way it works now, I find it refreshing that 14-18 year old kids can just be kids and not white or black or striped.
I have taken the stance that no one uses the N-word now, but I'm not going to get on to my kids because they are "janking" each other. Heck I know white people can't jump or dance.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 16, 2008 23:02:51 GMT -6
I think the "N" word should not be used.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 16, 2008 23:06:48 GMT -6
BTW Wingt74 the correct term for people from the Far East is "Asian".
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 16, 2008 23:35:46 GMT -6
i hear the N word 100s of times a day
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 17, 2008 8:14:10 GMT -6
What you went into detail on DCOhio, is what I'm was trying to explain...exactly. Some might say you have completely lost control of your team...others might say you are doing a great job walking that fine line. Trust me, I'm the latter of the two.
But if I were coaching your team, I'd put an end to it. I am so damn paranoid about the whole racist crap that I am going to start a zero tolerance policy for it. I don't EVER want me, or my team, or my org, to EVER be thought of as racist.
Problem is, we're not. We're the opposite. Racial diversity on our team helps my kids learn about other cultures & religions, and to respect them.
But a parent overhearing one of my kids calling another something like "HEY ARAB" or "C'mon Chuck, show us your mad black dance skills, we know you can dance" while I don't do anything.
Well, it's like I said in another thread, perception then becomes reality.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 17, 2008 8:15:37 GMT -6
Wingt74, you hit the nail on the head. I get real paranoid as well.
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iso
Freshmen Member
Posts: 78
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Post by iso on Jan 17, 2008 8:29:21 GMT -6
This has been a very thought provoking thread. I learned from everyones' contributions. Where better to study this topic than among such an obviously diverse group, working in drastically different communities?
More bothersome to me than the give and take that I hear between the players is that which I DO NOT hear. It has been my experience that cruel racism or other injustices between teammates happens when the coaches aren't aware.
Our coaches must be in the locker room with the kids before and after practice making sure that nobody is being abused. Our office is off-limits until the kids are gone. I am not talking about a guard like situation, just positive interaction between coaches and players.
Kids that are not acting like themselves must be approached. It is usually a stupid girlfriend thing, but if there is an under current of disunity on our team these discussions are when they usually come to light.
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Post by lionhart on Jan 17, 2008 16:22:29 GMT -6
i am one of 2 white coaches on staff. everyone else is black, and the team is like 48 black kids with ONE puerto rican and one kid who is half black/half dominican. the head coach despises the n word and is really trying to get these kids out of the habit of using it. in our school which is about 99.7% black... its used so frequently that people get desensitized to it. occasionally i will make a joke when a new kid calls me by the OTHER white coaches name... like "thats ok, i know all white guys look alike." and i think that approach can lightne things up a little. i feel totally comfortable as the only white face on the bus on the way to games and such... and i actually made a joke to my head coach that on the way to one game i felt like a "sugar cube on an ant hill". we laughed and thought it was pretty funny. as far as racial slurs go, my head coach simply will not tolerate it, ever. one coach who was here before me (a white guy) was called a "white mutha******" and the head coach dismissed him from the team immediately and said he would personally press charges of racial harrassment aqgainst the kid if he ever showed up around our team again. one time when i was in a team meeting i heard "nigga" bout 40 times until i finally had ot say something. i told them that for 60 years, people of all races have been fighting to STOP black people form being called that word. this incluldes my parents who traveled from NJ to march with dr king! to now refer to each other as that is a slap in the face to all those who have tried to end racism in our country. the kids were quiet and seemed to get it. 30 minutes later the n word was being said all over again..... but they are just kids and its hard to break habits. if they arent allowed to use that word as they are growing up, it wont be so hard to get rid of the word amopng teens.
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Post by lionhart on Jan 17, 2008 16:26:59 GMT -6
by the way, since we are in north jersey and i'm italian-american....... all the kids think im in the mafia. its pretty hysterical to hear the things they say, and they are totally serious when they say it. "yo coach, you be like one of the sopranos? like all italian and sh*t? i aint messin with yall man, those mob cats dont play!" i have to just laugh
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Jan 20, 2008 14:00:14 GMT -6
I know this much, the first time I heard it they did push-ups until I was tired. Some of them said that it was they way they talked to each other and nothing bad was meant by it. I told them that they had to take into consideration that they werent the only ones who went to that school and they needed to take in consideration the whole school and not just their circle. After that point had no problems what so ever.
Where I teach and coach if they are caught using racial remarks they are expelled for 3 days the first time, and it gets progressively longer until it is indefinately. They dont tolerate it where I teach.
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