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Post by coachwood on Aug 24, 2010 21:32:21 GMT -6
I got called the N word today in practice. You know ... the word that should not be said. However, I'm white. Here is the situation. 3 new players started today in helmets only. All three are in the gang MS 13. Now, we have many gangs in our school. That isn't the issue. the issue is ... this is the first time the behavior has come into my coaching. During the middle of practice. I noticed these kids talking with some of our younger players on the sideline. One of the new kids was not wearing his helmet. I told him he needed to keep his helmet on during practice. He was also wearing a rival high school's T-shirt. I pulled him to the side (didn't want to disrespect him since I knew he was big into the gang). As I was telling him not to wear the shirt .... he starts dancing and said OK. As I was walking away, he turned to the group and said, "Can you believe this N*#@# just told me I can't wear this shirt!" .... I went nuts. I start going off and make him run laps. I follow him still screaming. Well .... lets just say it was a walk/run. I was able to catch him on the other side of the field. I pull him aside and then talk to him again about respect and why he said what he did. (Away from his hommies) He said he didn't mean to say it and that he talks that way all the time and that he wasn't trying to disrespect. I told him he put in a position in which I HAD to go off. I couldn't let that go and that I would lose all respect of the team. He said he understood. However, I know this will be a daily battle. I'm hoping once the pads come on and he (and his hommies) get hit, they will shut up or decide football isn't for them. Now ... his dad is in jail. Mom is dead. Lives with his aunt and 9 brothers and sisters in a small house. No money. Has no other t-shirt to wear. Never been coached or had discipline. Is a soph. My concern is ... my son will be going to this school next year and I do not want any relatiation towards him. So ... I have to be careful how I handle this. In practice and in the halls. Not sure my next step. I'm frustrated and concerned about my family.
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Post by unc31 on Aug 25, 2010 7:58:03 GMT -6
Why are known gang members allowed to play to start with. Gangs, and especially the one you mentioned are known for blatant violence and violations of the law. They would have to choose the gang or the team. Most school systems have very strict guidelines about gang activity. I am sure the school board would back you. If not, I would find a new job. You should not have to worry about gang retaliation against you or your family. Compromising discipline will destroy the program. You were right for handling it as you did, but I would not be somewhere that I had to walk around in fear of violence against my family for instilling discipline. Playing sports is not a constitutional right. There are rules, guidelines and criteria to be met. If he chooses the gang over the team then you are way better off. I can't imagine a kid like that would be a benefit to the team whether he is an athlete or not.
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Post by phantom on Aug 25, 2010 9:35:02 GMT -6
I am sure the school board would back you. Really?
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Post by unc31 on Aug 25, 2010 10:20:33 GMT -6
I would hope so phantom. I don't know of any school systems in NC that tolerate gang activity or known gang members operating in the schools. So you don't think the BOE would back a coach for dismissing a player for being involved in gang activities? I guess there are all kinds of BOE's out there. Never lived in Hampton Roads, so maybe it is more tolerant?
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Post by phantom on Aug 25, 2010 10:27:09 GMT -6
I would hope so phantom. I don't know of any school systems in NC that tolerate gang activity or known gang members operating in the schools. So you don't think the BOE would back a coach for dismissing a player for being involved in gang activities? I guess there are all kinds of BOE's out there. Never lived in Hampton Roads, so maybe it is more tolerant? "Tolerant"wasn't the word that came to mind.
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Post by cc on Aug 25, 2010 10:37:41 GMT -6
The kid should not be talking to you like that,but I feel sad for that poor kid. He does not know how to be respectful to authority. He has not been taught it and on contrary has been taught to be disrespectful. Rome was not built in a day... If you get the kid to change you could be saving his life.
On another note, if he has not other T-shirts, can't you give him one of yours? (team shirt). We give the kids a Spirit package (shorts, shirt) and in no-gear that's what they wear. So by the time they are seniors they have several different ones they can wear. Also shirts for going to camps, making a minimum numbers of workouts etc....
Kids will do a lot for a shirt, but it's got to be out there.
We also sell shirts (more for parents, boosters) and would give a kid like that an "extra" one...
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Post by cc on Aug 25, 2010 10:40:45 GMT -6
To add to your 1st part, a lot of kids throw the N word around with no clue about the power behind it. As a white man you have to be very careful how you react to it, I think you may have overreacted truthfully. But maybe you bring it up with the whole team as a "coaching moment".
There are some words we never allow them to say. 1) it will be a penalty on gameday 2) it's plain wrong.
For example, we never let them say "rape/kill" their opponent. And swearing is a gasser at practice, just like it would be a penalty at the game.
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Post by coachwood on Aug 25, 2010 11:52:51 GMT -6
The kid should not be talking to you like that,but I feel sad for that poor kid. He does not know how to be respectful to authority. He has not been taught it and on contrary has been taught to be disrespectful. Rome was not built in a day... If you get the kid to change you could be saving his life. On another note, if he has not other T-shirts, can't you give him one of yours? (team shirt). We give the kids a Spirit package (shorts, shirt) and in no-gear that's what they wear. So by the time they are seniors they have several different ones they can wear. Also shirts for going to camps, making a minimum numbers of workouts etc.... Kids will do a lot for a shirt, but it's got to be out there. We also sell shirts (more for parents, boosters) and would give a kid like that an "extra" one... Kind of agree with you about the clothing. We did give him some gear this morning. Problem is ... you can't stop a kid from playing just because he is in a gang. It becomes difficult when the word discrimination is thrown around. We have a code of conduct. With consequences. I explained to him after practice that I had to react the way I did. I don't want to lose the team. I think he understood. We have about 7 kids that in a gang, 5 with ankle braces, 3 that got arrested before the season and cases are pending. I'm with you on the teaching part. We are trying to save these kids lives and give them something positive. Coaching is so much more than Xs and Os. I'm curious if he will show up again. The easy thing to do would be to say see ya to all of these kids. However, if they get in trouble before the season starts, we "have" to take them. We have had issues in the past and our school board said this. I've decided to proactive and talk to him in school and tell him that I will push him harder than he has ever been pushed. Teach him to say ... "yes coach". Come visit after practice if he has an issue. Never in front of others. So .... we will see. I need to remember what I tell my other coaches. Coach em up.
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Post by airman on Aug 25, 2010 12:07:14 GMT -6
I would be careful because M-13 is known for beheading those who opposed them. in fact, in los Laredo mexico M-13 tossed a bag with 13 heads of people who have informed on them into a nigh club.
That said most gangbangers are soft. if you condition them enough they usually will quit.
remember, if a criminal attacks you regardless of where you are at you have the right to defend yourself or the age you have the right to defend yourself.
as for the kids, sometimes giving them a reason to be a part of your gang is this the best way to look at it.
if I were I would consult a lawyer.
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Post by coachwood on Aug 25, 2010 12:07:20 GMT -6
Why are known gang members allowed to play to start with. Gangs, and especially the one you mentioned are known for blatant violence and violations of the law. They would have to choose the gang or the team. Most school systems have very strict guidelines about gang activity. I am sure the school board would back you. If not, I would find a new job. You should not have to worry about gang retaliation against you or your family. Compromising discipline will destroy the program. You were right for handling it as you did, but I would not be somewhere that I had to walk around in fear of violence against my family for instilling discipline. Playing sports is not a constitutional right. There are rules, guidelines and criteria to be met. If he chooses the gang over the team then you are way better off. I can't imagine a kid like that would be a benefit to the team whether he is an athlete or not. Finding a new job isn't that easy. I'm not eligible for early retirement for a few more years. Plus, I love teaching and coaching. This is the first time I've ever been worried about my family. I will be watching this closely and trying to make this a positive. For example, many of these gang bangers are very loyal. I've been teaching them for years in the classroom. I teach SPED - Behavior Disorder. Many of these gang bangers will give me hugs when the grad. My issue is ... this is the first time it has carried over into my coaching football. These kids have never been coached. I guess (as I reflect) it is my job to teach them HOW to be coached.
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Post by cc on Aug 25, 2010 14:43:31 GMT -6
coachability - the ability to be coached
your a dealing with some heavy stuff coach. my hopes go out to you. that said, for the whole team - condition hard to see who the quitters are. those who stay will be more committed for it. everyone deserves a 2nd chance.
and talk to the police. get someone to know something about your thoughts know so you get better protection later...
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Post by coachwood on Aug 25, 2010 18:06:41 GMT -6
coachability - the ability to be coached your a dealing with some heavy stuff coach. my hopes go out to you. that said, for the whole team - condition hard to see who the quitters are. those who stay will be more committed for it. everyone deserves a 2nd chance. and talk to the police. get someone to know something about your thoughts know so you get better protection later... One of our coaches is a cop. He is all over it. Thanks coach.
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Post by coachguy83 on Aug 26, 2010 13:11:11 GMT -6
I am a frosh coach and we told our players from day one that cursing was not allowed, but especially the n word and the f word. Our frosh HC is black and he will not tolerate it and it's a instant 100 yard bear crawl for the use of either word. You don't want to disrespect the player in front of his hommies, but if you are real with them from the begining they will learn to respect you.
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Post by banditgsk on Aug 26, 2010 23:05:07 GMT -6
Our kids used the "N" word sometimes last year when referring with disrespect to a player or teammate that made a mistake. Seems it was "over looked" most times and not much said about it. However, early this year we drew the line and made it unacceptable along with any other foul language. We make them do 20 push ups if they say any bad words. Well, during summer practice one of our rising Sr. used the "N" word and I went ballistic. I told him and the team how low-rent, disrespectful, and totally unacceptable this was and it would not be tolerated. As a white man, I was embarrassed and never wanted to hear that kind of talk again and most of them as black kids should never use it again either. I screamed like a crazy man, and actually scared some of them into thinking I was going to get physical with the kid. Since that day, we have not had any problems that I have heard. (you never really know what they are saying under their breath, but I am hopeful this has stopped it for the most part, at least within my ear shot)
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Post by flexoption91 on Aug 27, 2010 6:17:23 GMT -6
I would hope so phantom. I don't know of any school systems in NC that tolerate gang activity or known gang members operating in the schools. So you don't think the BOE would back a coach for dismissing a player for being involved in gang activities? I guess there are all kinds of BOE's out there. Never lived in Hampton Roads, so maybe it is more tolerant? I think a better way of saying it would be chicken sh*t.... The board would do everything in their power to wash their hands of something like this. I will guess their response will be something along the lines of "if he is not promoting the gang at practice than we can not step in." They want nothing to do with real social problems like gangs. Instead, most are more concerned with pursuing trivial matters that fit their own personal agenda. Every board I have dealt with has been flat out scared of anyone outside of teachers. They are like any politicians, they do not want to upset the constituency that keeps them in power. My advice would be to look for somewhere new if at all possible. This situation has trouble written all over it. This is MS-13, not JoJos corner gang. This issue at hand is not that he called you a name, but who he represents. Respect, or lack there of, is all the go on. Any sign of lack of respect and I would not put much past them (maybe I have been watching too much Gangland or Nat Geo specials). Do not trust that any administrator or board member will take care of this. One of the hard things about football is that most places do not allow you to cut a player. While I have never personally dealt with a true gang situation in schools, with the amount of access kids have to each other these days there are multiple ways in which your son could face retaliation and you not even know about it.
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Post by coachwood on Aug 27, 2010 10:23:34 GMT -6
I would hope so phantom. I don't know of any school systems in NC that tolerate gang activity or known gang members operating in the schools. So you don't think the BOE would back a coach for dismissing a player for being involved in gang activities? I guess there are all kinds of BOE's out there. Never lived in Hampton Roads, so maybe it is more tolerant? I think a better way of saying it would be chicken sh*t.... The board would do everything in their power to wash their hands of something like this. I will guess their response will be something along the lines of "if he is not promoting the gang at practice than we can not step in." They want nothing to do with real social problems like gangs. Instead, most are more concerned with pursuing trivial matters that fit their own personal agenda. Every board I have dealt with has been flat out scared of anyone outside of teachers. They are like any politicians, they do not want to upset the constituency that keeps them in power. My advice would be to look for somewhere new if at all possible. This situation has trouble written all over it. This is MS-13, not JoJos corner gang. This issue at hand is not that he called you a name, but who he represents. Respect, or lack there of, is all the go on. Any sign of lack of respect and I would not put much past them (maybe I have been watching too much Gangland or Nat Geo specials). Do not trust that any administrator or board member will take care of this. One of the hard things about football is that most places do not allow you to cut a player. While I have never personally dealt with a true gang situation in schools, with the amount of access kids have to each other these days there are multiple ways in which your son could face retaliation and you not even know about it. Sound advice. Since the incident. I have pulled him aside and talked with him in my room. I told him what it takes to be coached. That it is never personal on the field. What happens on the field ... stays on the field. That I like him a person and what he is trying to do (play football when surrounded by external distractions). My gut tells me deep down, he is looking for a way out of the gang. He has been fine since that day. Will be interesting with pads. He wants to be a middle backer. We will see.
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Post by tiger46 on Aug 27, 2010 10:38:02 GMT -6
Coachwood,
I'm not sure if you should've gone ballistic. I'm not sure that you should not have. Your player calling you a *N* is a lack of respect. He may not have meant to slur you racially. But, it is still a show of disrespect.
You are not his *N*, buddy, hommie, dog, cuz, fam or, anything else along those lines. You are not his peer. You are his coach. You are in a position of authority and you deserve respect. It is as at least as bad as if he walked up to you and called you by your first name.
I also bet that if you were to find someone in position of authority in his gang and have that person tell your player what to do your player wouldn't turn around and make a comment like he made after you told him what he should be doing.
As for the shirt itself, when I was in football everyone was issued two gray half-shirts. We were expected to maintain them and return them at the end of the season. Maybe you could get him a shirt or let him earn one. That may go a long ways towards mending fence with the kid if there is any need to do so.
As far as a potential threat to your family, do whatever you think you need to do to protect them. I am not in your situation. So, I won't try to be an internet tough-guy and tell you to try to be some vigilante.
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Post by dhooper on Aug 27, 2010 11:39:20 GMT -6
WOW I'm glad I don't have your problems. Coach I disagree with some of the post. I would of went off also. My number one rule to my staff is what you allow you encourage. Talking like that is never allowed. The kid don't need hug and baby he needs a coach/father figure. I would love him up when he good and be rough on him when his bad. If he stays on his path and goes to prison you think they will care about how he reacts. I don't know what to tell you about your family that could be bad. Good luck
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Post by coachcb on Aug 29, 2010 8:52:06 GMT -6
The problem I see is the fact that the word in question is just a part of a some kid's basic grammar... It comes out of their mouths constantly and they don't understand how disrespectful it is because they're not using it as a racial slur. One of the delightful side effects of the current hip-hop culture popularity.
I agree completely with what dcohio stated; focus on WHAT he said, not HOW he said it. I sent a kid for a run the other day because he told one of his teammates to get his 'f-ing a-- to fing practice' over his cell phone. Now, maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I was torn about it; the kid was severely p-ssed that this kid didn't show for practice and was on him about it. I had to walk into my office because I was grinning ear to ear. I thanked him for jumping his teammate, but explained to him that he couldn't use that kind of language and sent him around the track. He understood where I was coming from.
I feel bad for the kid and, I wouldn't have let his use of the 'n' word slide, but I probably wouldn't have reigned h-ll down on him to bad. He would've suffered some consequence for it, but I would have backed off a little bit. The reason I say that is because I have coached in some severely red-neck areas... Areas where, when anyone used to 'n' word, it was racially motivated. I kicked a kid off of a team about five years ago for calling a black opponent a 'n'.. It was in the middle of a game, I had him strip off his pads and sit on the sidelines. After the game, I called my AD, told him what my plans were and he backed me up 100%; the kid was gone.
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Post by blitzclip on Sept 3, 2010 20:24:01 GMT -6
There are many things that kids from these types of enviorments can and will learn from their football families, that they did not learn from there home life family. Something made that kid want to be part of a football program. If he was a young player I would keep him, if he was a first year player senior he would be gone.
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