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Post by wingtol on Aug 22, 2010 17:51:10 GMT -6
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Post by airraider on Aug 22, 2010 21:12:46 GMT -6
I was just about to post this... this is pretty scarey to say the least. Wonder what they will find to be the cause?
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Post by gdn56 on Aug 22, 2010 21:18:46 GMT -6
Very weird. I really don't understand what is happening there.
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Post by brophy on Aug 23, 2010 2:36:06 GMT -6
That's horrible news...
Unfortunately the article is sorely lacking any possible insight as to how a person/program from avoiding this (but sure seems to speculate a lot)
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Post by poweriguy on Aug 23, 2010 10:25:44 GMT -6
I heard on the radio this morning that the doctors found extremely high levels of creatine in the boys system.
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Post by airraider on Aug 23, 2010 10:40:04 GMT -6
I heard on the radio this morning that the doctors found extremely high levels of creatine in the boys system. In reading the original article.. I almost took it as saying that this was a byproduct of what was going on.. that didnt seem right though. So I guess we will see. God help this coach if it turns out that he had his team taking something that caused it. |
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coachbigelow
Junior Member
Coach at Southern Virginia University
Posts: 261
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Post by coachbigelow on Aug 23, 2010 11:25:08 GMT -6
On the message boards, some are already blaming the coach. One person is apparently going and finding things about the head coach and posting them. This is turning into a really really ugly situation.
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Post by blb on Aug 23, 2010 11:39:15 GMT -6
Disregarding speculation over cause or responsibility - What is the purpose of an "immersion camp" for HS football players?
Maybe I'm too old and dumb, but not only had I never heard of such a technique before, I wouldn't utilize it anyway.
Is proper rest and nurition, running, and lifting in the off-season no longer enough?
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Post by phantom on Aug 23, 2010 11:49:04 GMT -6
I saw the creatine thing but I'm witholding judgement. I don't know much about the science of it but I do know that creatine is a natural substance that is formed in the body. Overloads of creatine could be a symptom of overwork, not necessarily something the kids have taken from what I know (but I don't know much). Bottom line is don't rush to judgement on this one.
"Immersion camp"? If the boss tells me that we're going to "immersion camp" that answer is "What do you mean "We" Kemmo-sabi?".
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Post by airraider on Aug 23, 2010 12:10:39 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Aug 23, 2010 19:36:45 GMT -6
On the message boards, some are already blaming the coach. One person is apparently going and finding things about the head coach and posting them. This is turning into a really really ugly situation. With all due respect, coach bigelow - "turning into a really ugly situation"? When kids have to go to the hospital and some have to have surgery - it's beyond "turning into". |
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Post by blb on Aug 23, 2010 19:58:21 GMT -6
Again, I kind of plead ignorance -
But - Anybody else reading this do an "Immersion Camp (whatever that is in totality)" before this?
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Aug 23, 2010 20:30:47 GMT -6
Man, this sounds super-weird, hope these kids can overcome this. In the last couple of days I've read as much as possible about this strange disorder. But we'll have to wait until the "experts" come out with their prognosis. However, and this is the infamous big butt, this should serve as a warning to coaches not to get all rough and tough sounding with your names of stuff. Following guidelines I read in the college coaches association, I dropped all the names of things that sounded dangerous. I even went to far as to ban the expression "suicides" for our sideline to sideline running. The basketball kids call it that. I don't want to give ANY ammo to any body's lawyer. I know what that feels like and don't want to talk about it right now. I know it sounds real cool to call your brand of football "smash mouth", you are just looking for trouble. Calling a pre-season camp, an immersion camp has just led people to speculate how bad it could have been. Hey, it might be bad, I don't know, sounds stupid to me anyway, but that is my point. It's all fine until somebody gets hurt-then you are up that infamous creek without any implement of propulsion.  OJW |
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Post by airraider on Aug 24, 2010 11:18:10 GMT -6
Again, I kind of plead ignorance - But - Anybody else reading this do an "Immersion Camp (whatever that is in totality)" before this? Define immersion camp... One school I was at traveled to camp for 4 days and 3 nights to do nothing but football and team building activities. The intent was immersion of football and team unity. Here is an article about this immersion camp prior to the illness. Maybe it was the pizza??  www.newsregister.com/article/45239-total+immersion |
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Post by airraider on Aug 24, 2010 11:23:13 GMT -6
Where is Dr. House when you need him?
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Post by goldenbear76 on Aug 24, 2010 18:28:39 GMT -6
I never took creatine..but I don't buy the "its a natural substance" argument either. Creatine is a condensed form of whats in your body. I.E. if your body wanted you to have that much creatine...it would make that much. People should really think hard before ingesting stuff like that. Creatine powders etc are new, therefore there is no studies on longterm or even short term effects.
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Post by blb on Aug 24, 2010 19:20:08 GMT -6
Nothing in either article I read online that said (qouting the treating MDs) the kids had taken Creatine supplements.
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Post by mental311 on Aug 25, 2010 8:13:59 GMT -6
The normal range for CK is 35 to 232 units per liter, but some students showed levels as high as 42,000, putting them at risk of kidney injury, Winkler said. Those with levels in the 3,000 range were treated in the hospital's emergency room and released, while those with levels above 10,000 were admitted.
Yea - wonder what caused that....
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Post by phantom on Aug 25, 2010 9:32:07 GMT -6
The normal range for CK is 35 to 232 units per liter, but some students showed levels as high as 42,000, putting them at risk of kidney injury, Winkler said. Those with levels in the 3,000 range were treated in the hospital's emergency room and released, while those with levels above 10,000 were admitted. Yea - wonder what caused that.... OK, then. I read an article that said that the immersion camp included very high-intensity upper-body exercises in a hot wrestling room (how hot is being debated but it was hot). Under those circumstances if there was a lot of creatine use this coach may have serious trouble. |
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Post by mental311 on Aug 25, 2010 11:00:34 GMT -6
It would really be bad if he supplied it....
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Post by airman on Aug 25, 2010 11:55:37 GMT -6
I think what coaches/players and parents fail to understand is creatine is specific supplement. Creatine should not be used if you are doing endurance type conditioning. if you are going to use creatine you have to condition anaerobically not aerobically.
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Post by phantom on Aug 25, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -6
I think what coaches/players and parents fail to understand is creatine is specific supplement. Creatine should not be used if you are doing endurance type conditioning. if you are going to use creatine you have to condition anaerobically not aerobically. My point exactly. Creatine + Junction Boys don't mix. |
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Post by mental311 on Aug 25, 2010 12:59:17 GMT -6
You'd think they understood that before taking it....
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Post by airman on Aug 25, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -6
You'd think they understood that before taking it.... most kids and adults do not read labels. they go by word of mouth. our track coach does a great job explaining how endurance style athletes should not use creatine. he also explains how to use creatine to those who are going to use it. he tells football players it is no use to take creatine and then run mile. football players should not even really do long distance training. fb players should do interval training which allow you to use creatine. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 25, 2010 21:44:42 GMT -6
Don't get mixed up. The article said nothing about the amino acid creatine, only about the enzyme creatine kinase. We used to call this creatine phosphokinase, CPK, guess they've shortened it to CK now. This is not likely related to any ingestion of creatine supplements, but just indicative of muscle damage.
I would also look out in their case for elevation of creatinine -- watch out for that extra "in".
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 25, 2010 21:48:03 GMT -6
I was just about to post this... this is pretty scarey to say the least. Wonder what they will find to be the cause? My guess: infection, possibly with one of these new strains of Gram+. |
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