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Post by ballcoach on Jul 19, 2006 4:00:18 GMT -6
We are looking at our conditioning schedule for the upcoming year and are presented with such a quick turnaround, I am wondering if anyone has any ideas. We had spring ball so we start practice August 14th. We play our 1st Scrimmage August 26th and our first game the following Saturday, September 2nd. 15 Workouts to game one! We would like to have somo of our conditioning simulate game conditions in that we would run 6-7 second bursts with rests in between at some point.
Questions:
1) Should we try to get in some type of cardiovascular base by running longer distances or decreased rest periods?
2) Should our generalized plan sacrifice the non-district part of the season to peak for district the 4th week?
3) Should we start a program based on the fact that about 75% of our starters have attended summer workouts and have established a base and let the others catch up throughout the year?
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Post by los on Jul 19, 2006 7:17:10 GMT -6
This is kinda simplistic coach, but I'd never sacrifice conditioning week! If you can't give 100% for 4 qtrs. (especially in the heat of the early games) eventually it will come back to haunt you during a close game. I think the guys that can run for 48 minutes will find a way to make plays and win???
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 19, 2006 7:35:09 GMT -6
Just some thoughts here...
1) Should we try to get in some type of cardiovascular base by running longer distances or decreased rest periods?
2) Should our generalized plan sacrifice the non-district part of the season to peak for district the 4th week?
3) Should we start a program based on the fact that about 75% of our starters have attended summer workouts and have established a base and let the others catch up throughout the year?
1. Several philosophies out there on this... mine is a cardio. base IS helpful, but I remember running 1-2 miles as a player, hated it, and saw no point in it (when will we have 3rd + a mile?). Our cardio. work comes in the form of dodgeball, basketball or multiple pass football for an hour. Of course this is in our summer program- in season our only real cardio work is through drills/activities that are continuous (no huddle O,D vs. no-huddle, 40s with walk/jog back to start, drill circuts, etc.). We do not run 800s or 1200s, for ex., but try to get some cardio work through the nature of practice, but I try to be "football specific" in our conditioning (4-8 sec. work w/ rest)
2. Work to peak at the time you think you need to peak- for some it is week 1, for some start of dist./conf., for some, start of playoffs.
3. I would support the decision to make the others catch up to your dedicated ones.
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 19, 2006 8:04:34 GMT -6
If you have abbreviated time then you're probably going to have to start "in-the-middle" ground of intensity and the guys who haven't been out there will need to catch up.
I'm probably not scientific enough, but I don't think long, broad cardio will help you much. I always liked intense, slightly longer sprints up hills (say ~80-100yd sprints up a hill) to work cardio.
The other thing is that without sacrificing fundamentals I think you're going to have to kick-up the intensity of some of your practice drills to kind of split the difference between conditioning and football. Then as practice approaches scale back this approach to fewer, more precise reps.
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Post by brophy on Jul 19, 2006 8:29:35 GMT -6
1) Should we try to get in some type of cardiovascular base by running longer distances or decreased rest periods? what's the point? you can't change 10 years of poor conditioning and bad habits in 15 days to a cause that won't serve your purpose of high intensity performance. 2) Should our generalized plan sacrifice the non-district part of the season to peak for district the 4th week? getting better every day. Establish a high-intensity tempo for practice. personally, we have had success utilizing conditioning right after some fundamental work in practice....short bout lasting no more than 7 minutes...then maintain HIGH INTENSITY periods throughout practice. If you wait to do 30 minutes specific "conditioning" elements of practice, kids will coast through practice, saving it for conditioning, or just coast through conditioning. We found we could get 'in shape' AND practice for games at the same time by keeping an HIGH INTENSITY practice (little walk & talk, all 100% stuff) by being organized. 3) Should we start a program based on the fact that about 75% of our starters have attended summer workouts and have established a base and let the others catch up throughout the year? H--- yes! Thats the point of them going to those workouts and getting off their A in the summer. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 19, 2006 8:37:34 GMT -6
Long distance cardio could end up hindering your athletes more than helping them. Although the athletes do need some sort of aerobic base, football demands a far more of the anerobic metabolic systems than this type of running develops. Even a week worth of long distance runs can slightly diminsh your athlete's ability to generate high levels of force because of the effect on their nervous system and musculature. I have coached with several wrestling coaches and have gotten into arguments with them over this very subject- I get tired of watching the kids do cross country workouts for conditioning.
I like using hollow sprints help the kids develop aerobically and anerobically- fast jog for 25 yards, sprint for 25, fast jog for 25 yards, sprint for 25 yards.
I think a lot of coaches tend to forget that practice itself will condition the athletes. Fast paced, up tempo practices are a great way to get the kids into shape will maintaining specificity.
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Post by phantom on Jul 19, 2006 9:29:43 GMT -6
We are looking at our conditioning schedule for the upcoming year and are presented with such a quick turnaround, I am wondering if anyone has any ideas. We had spring ball so we start practice August 14th. We play our 1st Scrimmage August 26th and our first game the following Saturday, September 2nd. 15 Workouts to game one! We would like to have somo of our conditioning simulate game conditions in that we would run 6-7 second bursts with rests in between at some point. Questions: 1) Should we try to get in some type of cardiovascular base by running longer distances or decreased rest periods? 2) Should our generalized plan sacrifice the non-district part of the season to peak for district the 4th week? 3) Should we start a program based on the fact that about 75% of our starters have attended summer workouts and have established a base and let the others catch up throughout the year? 1. There might me an argument for cardio distance running in March. Starting cardio work in August would be a waste of time and you don't have time. 2. Assuming that you installed most of your offense and defense in spring all I don't see any reason that you can't be ready for the first game. I wouldn't waste any time prepping for the scrimmage ecept very generally. 3. I agree with the others. The reason you have a conditioning program is so thatyou don't have to spend time on it in camp. Look at the NFL. Camps used to be brutal affairs with two full-pads practices every day ad a ton of conditioning work. That made sense at the time since players had off-season jobs and used camp to work their way into shape. Now players stay in town all year working in a S&C program. They come into camp in shape so now most teams do not go as hard in camp. |
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Post by bulldog on Jul 19, 2006 9:34:09 GMT -6
I've heard Boyd Eppley speak and he has some great research in this area. (Boyd is the Strength/Conditioning guy at Nebraska) His research is pretty much aligned with what coachcb states. He says that football players should only really train in the anerobic system since they never really get into the aerobic due to the nature of the game. In fact, he says that if you want to have skinny football players, the best thing to do is to train them aerobically. Like you mention ballcoach, if you were to train in of intervals 6-7 seconds full speed, followed by 25 seconds down and repeat for 40-50 cycles, you are pretty much simulating a full half of football. This usually equates to 50-60 yard sprints . . .. it's one of the reasons that 40 yard dashes are incredibly relevent to football. To figure out how much you need to condition, you might just want to run something like this as a test. Then determine a program based on the results.
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Post by phantom on Jul 19, 2006 10:10:23 GMT -6
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Post by bulldog on Jul 19, 2006 12:46:32 GMT -6
I also run another conditioning drill that I love because it does more than condition. I call it 'Composure Conditioning'. I tell the players that we have (15) 60 yard dashes (with about 30 seconds rest). I then have them run the first one. If one single player does not run hard, I'll call his name out and add another one to the total. If the team starts chirping at him, or fails to encourage him, I add another. A lot of times, I'll pick a leader of the team and will call his name out - even if he was running as hard as he could. I want to test and reinforce composure. Then the next sprint, I'll start on the 4th 'go'. And I'll try my best to get them to jump offsides. One additional sprint for everyone I get to flinch or jump. If someone just sits in their stance and does not get off, I add one for him. ( I use other coaches as spotters). Sometimes, I will just make up a total BS reason and give them extra sprints (like getting a horrible call from a ref in a game). On the flip side, if the team reacts well to adversity, then I reduce the number of sprints. I want them to encourage teammates who make mistakes. I want them to react with a postive attitude. I will tell them, 'if everyone sprints this one full speed, I'll take one off your total'.
Try this drill sometimes and see how hard your team conditions. You will be suprised at how few kids will want to be the cause of the additional sprints. And how hard they will work to get the extra sprints removed.
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Post by stone65 on Jul 19, 2006 17:03:10 GMT -6
Have an up tempo practice. No walking anywhere. Use pursuit drill and other "team" drills to get in conditioning.
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Post by bulldogoption on Jul 19, 2006 22:33:23 GMT -6
1) Should we try to get in some type of cardiovascular base by running longer distances or decreased rest periods?
Like many coaches have said, cardio/aerobic training is not really relevant to football. When will your players be running 1 mile during a football game? What cardio training DOES DO is build a larger capillary base around the muscles. That can bring in more Oxygen faster to muscles. Unfortunately it can take months for that to happen. And the benefit to athletes is it allows them to recover faster. It would not really affect their performance during the play. AFter the play was over they could recover faster if they had those extra blood supply vessels built up.
If kids haven't been training cardio/aerobically for months before the season it is a waste of time during the season. Your season will be over before any long term benefits would be seen.
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Post by los on Jul 20, 2006 5:39:15 GMT -6
Good post bulldogoption, I've never known the exact scientific reasons to mix in long distance running with football practice but I knew it builds stamina and endurance. Other sports that require quick bursts of energy over short periods also use distance running ,( boxing and other fighting sports) Its important that you start early in the summer though, well before practice starts to gain any benefit, as some of the other guys said, although it was part of our daily practice routine all season, so it was possible to catch up(somewhat) with the guys who trained nearly year round.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 20, 2006 9:06:53 GMT -6
In any athletic activity, all three energy systems are used but the ratio of those three changes. In football, we actually use little oxygen for energy- most of our gas comes from the creatine phosphate system and secondarily, anerobic glycolysis. It would be more efficient and specific to develop more of an anerobic glycolysis base (vs aerobic) by running longer diistance sprints in the off season- 100-400 meters. As I stated above, I would run these as hollow sprints to begin with.
There are other explosive sports that do long distance running, like boxing and wrestling, etc... However, a good trainer/ coach will have these athletes doing this to keep bodyweight down, not neccesarily to condition. In fact, one of the better wrestling coaches(at my old high school) in our division only has his kids running longer distances for about two weeks, he then works them into into sprint intervals-by the end of the season they are only running sprints in the halls fdor conditioning.
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Post by miami5 on Jul 21, 2006 6:43:42 GMT -6
Great post guys.
It is true, you must train your energy system for your sport. Every now and then we mix in a lite jog day for recovery. Your body also needs recovery to get stronger.
This is how we mix it up with great results.
we use 3 days as our condition days and 3 lift days.
we mix the energy training each day.
We do interval training one day, sprints of varied lengths with short rest.
could look like this, 5x20-5x40-5x60 rest 15 sec between each rest 2 min repeat new pattern.
we might even add in some 100-200 for those long runs to the end zone.
Because football also is not just a straight ahead running sport we mix agilities on day 2
Day 2 could look like this.
1. Pro agility 8 reps , 4 ea direction
2. 3 cone drill 8 reps
3. figure 8 drill 5 reps
4. Illinois drill 4 reps
and so on.
Total volume will depend on level of conditioning. remember to be progressive. any one can make a workout that no one can finish, quality reps will build your conditioning faster.
day3 will be pure speed training, and foot work, running form
speed ladders
hurdle drills
speed training, proper rest between each sprint is most important, you must fully recover ATP to run your fastest. sets and volume will differ each day. But keep speed sessions short.
we also may do ploy's on this day.
we also may do stairs, high knee quick feet, great for explosion on first few steps.
Remember many kids will be doing passing leagues etc, so they are getting plenty of running.
i have found this set up to be very effective in overall speed and conditioning.
just my thoughts.
if any one would like to discuss further let me know.
Greg
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Post by jackedup on Jul 21, 2006 8:07:11 GMT -6
Miami5,
What you do is very similar to what I do with the kids during our weight sessions. We lift and run M-Th. On Mondays and Wednesday, we do a foot quickness ciricuit to begin the day. Dots, speed ladder, low plyo boxes where we will double hop or single hop laterally and forward, mini hurdles, jump rope, etc. The point of emphasis for this is quick movement with your body undercontrol. We have 2-3 sets of 20-30 secs. On Tuesday and Thursdays, we have an Ab circuit that we focus on.
For the running portion of our workout we do the following:
Mondays: Speed
3 speed drills such as fly ins, ins&outs, straightaways/curves, Mach drills
Then our team sprints ar 40,50,60,70 yds 3-5 sets of each
And what I'm looking for is maintaining stride mechanics, breathing mechanics, and just busting balls...
Tuesdays: Captain's Game day
Dodgeball but instead of throwing a ball into the basket on the other side to release your lost players, I incorporated a 12 lb med ball and they have to make a free throw on their own side.
Nuke 'Em: We haven't played this yet... will on Monday instead of Tuesday. But you set up volleyball nets and teams of 6 with 6 med balls. Instead of hitting the balls over the net, you throw them and catch them. If you drop them, you are out. Every two people that are out, you take out a ball. Teams that are not playing (b/c of space), will have a lower body plyo workout.
Speed ball: 10 people on a team; you start with a QB who can only take 3 steps then must throw the ball to a teammate. If the teammate drops it, the other side is on offense right where the ball landed. If it is intercepted, the other team is on offense where it is intercepted. The point of this game is to score fast. The first time I didn't give them a limit for how many throws to score. Next time I'll make a limit of 4 throws to score. This is great for anaerobic work. Everyone is moving but the QB. Everyone gets to be QB. You work man coverage techniques. It's fun
These games are just a few elementary/middle school gym games that I incorporate into our training.
Wednesday: Acceleration/Start
3 start drills then 10's & 20's 5-10 sets each
Thursday: Agilities
6 stations, 3-5 minutes depending on where we are at in the offseason.
The last week of summer lifting, I'm going to test them out. I'm going to following NASE's test system which consists of 1.5 mile run (aerobic capacity), 10 repeated 40yd dashes (anaerobic capacity). 120yd dash (speed test with 3 timers timing stationary 40, flying 40, acceleration, speed endurance).
Sorry so long... just wanted to share what we are doing.
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Post by saintrad on Jul 21, 2006 9:56:44 GMT -6
might want to look into the Nebraska Metobolic Conditioning program that uses position specific conditioning that simulates game conditions.
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