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Post by davecisar on Aug 10, 2010 7:24:44 GMT -6
I listened to Kevin Kush the head coach at Boystown speak a couple of weeks ago. Very interesting guy, first time Ive ever heard him speak. He has been VERY successful at Boystown- yes that Boystown of Father Flanagan fame. Most of the troubled or abandoned kids he gets have never had enough stability in their lives to even be involved in team sports- and for many of the kids they go home or to a family- so his team dynamic is crazy. Often times losing kids midseason or having to start over with a new team almost every year. He goes all over the country speaking on Competing With Character- good stuff. If you get a chance to hear him speak- do it. We were very glad to hear him talk about many things that we have been doing for years- no conditioning, always end practice on time, overt conditioning, “sandwich method” corrections etc
But what surprised me most was he called football a “dying sport.”
He claimed football is hard, which is what makes it good- but in todays instant gratification world it is a dying sport and he offered advice to the attentive coaches in the crowd how to keep the sport alive.
Is football a dying sport in your area? I’ve heard that from some.
It just isn’t the case here- maybe we just don’t have the options/distractions some have in other locales- not sure what the deal is. In todays paper there was a front page article about a smaller class B school with 102 boys out for football grades 9-12, they planned on platooning. At my nephews school they have about 250 kids out and have over 100 freshmen slated for 2 different teams, an “A” and “B”. At the youth level organizations ebb and flow. In Omaha a brand new league has been formed and a brand new Org, the Bobcats have attracted 200+ new kids in just their second year. In Lincoln a new Org started last year and added 4 teams, our league added 2 brand new orgs in last 2 years and a friend of mine in Grand Island put together a new Org and 4 brand new teams this year- not sure how it affected the older Org there. Our league has gotten bigger each and every year. I do know another league in Omaha has shrunk some and I also know of 2 older Orgs in Omaha that have shrunk quite a bit. When they had great leadership- they grew, when they didn’t, it shrunk. Sometimes the guys doing it for 10-30 years move or decide to hang it up etc.
I did about 30 clinics this year all over the country- many of them were “private clinics” with Orgs that are busting at the seams. One in Cincinnati- grew from 0-300+ kids in 2 years- they capped enrollment- so they wouldn’t outgrow their infrastructure. Same other groups I worked with in South Dakota and South Carolina. Another group I worked with in Temple Hills, MD (DC area) – 3rd year org, busting at the seams- just up the road in the Northern DC area- another org- shrinking.
While football is more important in some areas of the country than others we can all agree on that.
If football is dying in your area- why do you think that is?
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Post by daveinsarasota on Aug 10, 2010 7:39:29 GMT -6
It is most definitely not dying down here. In our home town (Sarasota), we have 2 Pop Warner organizations...another organization that plays in the Mid Florida Football conference (MFFC), and another city league that has 4 age levels, with 5 to 6 teams of 13 to 15 players, in each respective age group.
When you count that up, in Sarasota alone, we have 36 football teams at the youth level, covering different organizations. That does not include the flag programs, which are plentiful.
Sarasota is not a big city, so 36 teams is a pretty good number. In fact, we have approximately 1000 tackle football teams at various age levels, within 1 hour of where I live. That does not include Miami, Orlando, or Jacksonville...but it does include Tampa, Ft. Myers and Bradenton.
By far it is the most popular youth sport down here. A lot of that is attributed to the attraction of the college football teams...Florida, FSU, and Miami... Also, we have Tampa Bay Bucs and Miami Dolphins...so kids have a lot of teams to choose from.
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Post by mhcoach on Aug 10, 2010 8:38:17 GMT -6
DC
Albeit the numbers for my team are down, we have 19 after last nite. Here in Charlotte football is huge & growing. Youth Football in particular is so popular that every spare blade grass has a team on it. In our organization we have 1 Flag, 2 Lil Prep teams, 3 Jr Pee Wee, 2 Pee Wee, 1 JR Midget, 1 14u. Our League will have 16 different organizations & over 130 teams. There are 4 other leagues that field teams, plus 2 in house programs. Now I do understand this is the South & football is king, however the rate of growth is unreal.
I still have contacts in NYC & Florida, football there is also on the upswing. Not only are the youth programs flourishing but new HS' are adding teams. So I just don't see our sport as dying. Just one ole coach's opinion.
Joe
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Post by bruincoach on Aug 10, 2010 10:23:33 GMT -6
I coached for six years with an unlimited program (10-13 Yrs) for six years and we always had good enough numbers to field two teams. The head coach of this program had to hang it up and turned the program over to the local county parks and rec and I recently heard that they don't now have enough kids to field one team. I am in the Maryland area and this program I was with is in Columbia, MD, which is closer to Baltimore. There is a youth program up the street from me in Upper Marlboro, MD, however that has strong numbers. There are other distractions/sports that are popular here such as basketball and lacrosse but I think overall football in the Maryland area is still having decent participation. It could be better though. Hey Dave, I think I might know the group you are talking about in temple hills, is it the Spirit of Faith Warriors?
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Post by coachbrek on Aug 10, 2010 11:07:44 GMT -6
Football will never die at the Youth level, young kids can't wait to put those pads on.
Youth football I would guess is at an all time high now.
I am sure what Kevin Kush was talking about was football dying at the high school level. I do see that.
I had heard once that the national average is only 20% of youth players play through their senior year of high school.
To me that is heart breaking, and very troubling.
When we started our youth program 10 ten years ago I would have bet anyone that we would have had 100% of those kids play through their senior year.
By the time they got to varsity there were kids quitting, kids who would have been all state, kids who loved the game of football in 5th and 6th grade.
Now in rural America if we only had 20% of kids play through their senior year we would not be able to field a team. We probably get 80% of the kids to play through their senior year but it is still gut wrenching to see kids quit football, it really makes me sad, I have a hard time looking those kids in the eye when I see them I am so upset.
I volunteer a ton of time to try and help build young boys into football players, I take it personal when they quit.
I know I should feel good about all the kids who do play through their senior year and I do but I can't get over kids being simply lazy and selfish.
Bottom line I do see football as a dying sport.
In order to compete with the top teams it requires extra ordinary commitment to play at a high level. Too many kids simply would rather not play football than have to lift weights and train in the off season.
It makes me sick.
All we can do is try and do our best at what we can controll and teach young kids to love the game of football.
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Post by davecisar on Aug 10, 2010 13:00:26 GMT -6
I coached for six years with an unlimited program (10-13 Yrs) for six years and we always had good enough numbers to field two teams. The head coach of this program had to hang it up and turned the program over to the local county parks and rec and I recently heard that they don't now have enough kids to field one team. I am in the Maryland area and this program I was with is in Columbia, MD, which is closer to Baltimore. There is a youth program up the street from me in Upper Marlboro, MD, however that has strong numbers. There are other distractions/sports that are popular here such as basketball and lacrosse but I think overall football in the Maryland area is still having decent participation. It could be better though. Hey Dave, I think I might know the group you are talking about in temple hills, is it the Spirit of Faith Warriors? YES- great guys They won my "Program of the Year" award last year They run my stuff from top to bottom- I spent time with them this December at the AYF National Championships- Very well run org. |
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Post by daveinsarasota on Aug 10, 2010 13:08:51 GMT -6
I coached for six years with an unlimited program (10-13 Yrs) for six years and we always had good enough numbers to field two teams. The head coach of this program had to hang it up and turned the program over to the local county parks and rec and I recently heard that they don't now have enough kids to field one team. I am in the Maryland area and this program I was with is in Columbia, MD, which is closer to Baltimore. There is a youth program up the street from me in Upper Marlboro, MD, however that has strong numbers. There are other distractions/sports that are popular here such as basketball and lacrosse but I think overall football in the Maryland area is still having decent participation. It could be better though. Hey Dave, I think I might know the group you are talking about in temple hills, is it the Spirit of Faith Warriors? YES- great guys They won my "Program of the Year" award last year They run my stuff from top to bottom- I spent time with them this December at the AYF National Championships- Very well run org. Youth football in Maryland, in particular, seems to be getting stronger and stronger. There is a noticeable upswing in teams form Maryland at the Pop Warner National Championships... |
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Post by davecisar on Aug 10, 2010 13:51:30 GMT -6
YES- great guys They won my "Program of the Year" award last year They run my stuff from top to bottom- I spent time with them this December at the AYF National Championships- Very well run org. Youth football in Maryland, in particular, seems to be getting stronger and stronger. There is a noticeable upswing in teams form Maryland at the Pop Warner National Championships... I was at both the AYF and Pop Warner National Championships this year Both Maryland and N Virginia were over represented if you look at the 2 tournaments combined However I didnt get a chance to go to any of the large Unlimited Weight tournaments-Best ones are in Daytona and Las Vegas. Here in Nebraska, no AYF and tiny new Pop Warner group- everyone is unlimited weight. When I was in Omaha- our 7-8th grade team often times had 6-8 kids over 200 lbs- less than 1/2 would have fit under the Pop Warner weight guidelines. |
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Post by mhcoach on Aug 10, 2010 14:23:43 GMT -6
DC
We compete in the 14 u for AYF. I can tell you hands down less then half our players would make Pop Warner weights. 2 years ago we 4 boys over 200, last season 5. We do have a large group between 170-190.
Joe
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spurred
Sophomore Member
Posts: 101
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Post by spurred on Aug 10, 2010 16:53:09 GMT -6
To me football isn't a dying sport. I actually think it's growing, I mean it seems like more and more kids are going out for it. I do think it is becoming more specialized, even in the youth leagues. I know kids, that all they work at is football, and while I would love to work year round football, at my age group (6th) I think they need to be kids first and play other sports and just be active.....let's wait until they are older before we turn them into football robots
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 10, 2010 18:20:14 GMT -6
Sports in gen'l are dying nationwide because of demographics. The popul'n is getting older.
However, movement of people alters patterns too. I grew up around here and I never saw cricket as a child, but now they play a lot of it here.
American football does seem to be rebounding here a bit after a couple generations of decline in NYC, but it would have to come back a long way to reach the level I understand it was at 50 years ago as a participant sport. Hispanics are warming up to it, though it'd have a long way to catch up to baseball & soccer in their appreciation.
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Post by mhcoach on Aug 11, 2010 6:16:34 GMT -6
Bob
You raise an extremely valid point(shock). Having coached many years in NYC, I first hand saw the changes. During the 70's & 80's youth football was flourishing. The influx of Hispanic, Caribbean, & Asian immigrants did lead to a large decline. Culturally they traditionally weren't footballers, seems now there has been an assimilation where they are starting to embrace the sport. NYC youth football for over 50 years was dominated by Nick Mitsakis who ran the Warner Football Conference as well as the Officials for the CHSFL. Sadly, we lost Nick. That left a void & it has taken a few years to rebound. Men like Anthony Spina, Sam Barnes, & Coutney Pollins have stepped up to fill this void. I have seen Sam & Coutney @ the AYF nationals the last 3 years. They are doing great work. Anthony is keeping football in Brooklyn going while being a HS coach, & coaching 2 Semi Pro teams. All things considered football is definitely on the rebound in NYC.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 11, 2010 7:36:52 GMT -6
Men like Anthony Spina, Sam Barnes, & Coutney Pollins have stepped up to fill this void. I have seen Sam & Coutney @ the AYF nationals the last 3 years. They are doing great work. Anthony is keeping football in Brooklyn going while being a HS coach, & coaching 2 Semi Pro teams. Wow, I've actually met Anthony Spina (or at least ISTR that), so he really must get around. |
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Post by superpower on Aug 11, 2010 8:17:58 GMT -6
Football is alive and well in north central KS (at least here in our little corner). We will have 45+ out for high school fb in a school of about 220 students (9-12). Our jr. high will have about 40 (7-8). Our youth will have about 40 (grades 5-6).
I should point out that the numbers at some of our league schools (same size) are reportedly going to be down. One of them will have maybe 25 hs players, and 2 others will have 30-35.
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Post by mhcoach on Aug 11, 2010 8:37:35 GMT -6
Bob
I coached against Anthony & with Anthony for years. We still talk often, he is currently the OC @ Xaverian HS in Brooklyn. He is a great coach & a dear friend. He has drank the Tony Franklin koolaide & is my source for TFS info.
Joe
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derekd
Probationary Member
Posts: 9
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Post by derekd on Aug 13, 2010 19:25:37 GMT -6
Football seems to be getting more popular here in Indiana, specifically Indianapolis. The state for a long time was a basketball state. It still is somewhat but football has taken over a lot, maybe due to the Colts here. Not sure what the pro sports in your cities are doing, but during the 90's, it was all Pacers here. Since '00 however, it's been the Colts. It's hard to say if there is a connection between the success of the city's pro franchises. I'm guessing that there is something to be said about the buzz a team has in its city and what kids want to play.
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Post by shotgunone on Aug 21, 2010 19:11:18 GMT -6
Football is a dying sport after 9th grade in PA. As lacrosse begins to become a more popular sport it continues to take kids from football to play LAX year round. Kids will tell you that LAX practice is fun and they play 2-3 games a week and on weekends when they play tournaments they can play 6-8 games. Football is a difficult sport requiring weight room, summer camp, and then practice all week for 1 game a week. But where is everyone on Friday nights in the fall? The football game!
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Post by shotgunone on Aug 21, 2010 19:11:37 GMT -6
Football is a dying sport after 9th grade in PA. As lacrosse begins to become a more popular sport it continues to take kids from football to play LAX year round. Kids will tell you that LAX practice is fun and they play 2-3 games a week and on weekends when they play tournaments they can play 6-8 games. Football is a difficult sport requiring weight room, summer camp, and then practice all week for 1 game a week. But where is everyone on Friday nights in the fall? The football game!
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 22, 2010 12:32:07 GMT -6
I wasn't aware lacrosse had broken into the fall, but I guess that shouldn't surprise me, what with fall baseball and summer soccer. I did see a couple of older kids with sticks on the field (not intruding on our space, fortunately) during our recent practices but hadn't put 2 & 2 together. The organiz'n I was with in 2007 was at that time exploring branching into lacrosse.
I remember a lacrosse boom in the late 1970s, with lacrosse expanding into geographic areas it hadn't been popular in for a very long time, such as by college clubs forming, but after a few years that expansion seemed to have leveled off. I can only gather that it's now gaining popularity with younger ages.
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Post by nrmccarthy12 on Aug 29, 2010 23:15:21 GMT -6
Football at the youth level here in Missouri is very much thriving. The High school level is expanding as well; as we are 6A now and were 5A as our highest level for quite some time. Many programs are moving to turf-fields around here and drawing large crowds on Fridays. In St. Louis, where there are several colleges with teams but none higher than DIII and a poor NFL team, attending HS games is where the action is at most of the time.
I agree with the comments of youth players quitting before their Sr. year; however I see that around here due to more kids coming out than before. For years our main league had a heavy and a light division; so the light kids who played nothing but line would often quit after their soph. seasons anyway...a generality but the most common scenario.
We have definitely lost some kids to fall-baseball and lacrosse as that is growing around here. However, I suspect that is the case in most states that don't have spring football. Hard to get these new kids that you previously got from your spring baseball or track teams when they are off doing that same sport in the fall.
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Post by coachguy83 on Aug 31, 2010 10:31:13 GMT -6
I don't think football is dying around here, but it is very much up and down. Our youth teams are low on numbers at the 7th and 8th grade level, but that is mostly do to jr. high baseball conflicting and the new baseball coach not allowing them to play both. The high school level is up and down as well, we only have 10 sophmores out this year but 44 freshmen.
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