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Post by wingtol on Jul 9, 2010 17:24:54 GMT -6
So this whole Lebron thing has me thinking about something, this is not a Lebron topic just using that situation to start. So Lebron and the other guys become great friends a few summers ago and decide they want to play together and win championships. I then think of Jordan and how he didn't give a rip if his teammates were his friends or not just so long as they were good teammates and wanted to work their a$$es of to win. The stories of him going after players in practice both physically and mentally to see how much they wanted to win are legendary, so can you get away with that with the bestest of friends on a team together?
So my question is basically which is more important to the dynamics of a team, good teammates or good friends?
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Post by phantom on Jul 9, 2010 20:30:07 GMT -6
So this whole Lebron thing has me thinking about something, this is not a Lebron topic just using that situation to start. So Lebron and the other guys become great friends a few summers ago and decide they want to play together and win championships. I then think of Jordan and how he didn't give a rip if his teammates were his friends or not just so long as they were good teammates and wanted to work their a$$es of to win. The stories of him going after players in practice both physically and mentally to see how much they wanted to win are legendary, so can you get away with that with the bestest of friends on a team together? So my question is basically which is more important to the dynamics of a team, good teammates or good friends? Teammates, no doubt. Every loafing, non-weightlifting, drill-dogging slacker on the team has friends. Lebron probably has friends on the Nets, too, but he doesn't want to play with them. |
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lrader
Sophomore Member
Posts: 143
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Post by lrader on Jul 9, 2010 20:45:58 GMT -6
I actually was talking to my wife tonight about the fact that even if lebron wins a crap load of championships now, he will never be even mentioned in the same breath as jordan. Even though Jordan didn't win one until he had Pippin and all the others, he will be remembered as staying with the team that drafted him and building that franchise.
Sorry, I know basketball talk is what you wanted to avoid. But, as a coach, I just see it as Jordan not being as physically talented as Lebron, but like you said raised the level of play of everyone on the team. So, in my mind there is no doubt I would rather have the team mate. If you have your mind straight that guy is going to be your friend b/c you know he's making you better.
I know, try convincing a 16 year old male that though.
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Post by coachks on Jul 9, 2010 21:14:13 GMT -6
Great topic, something I've really been thinking about.
So many kids are worried about getting along with their teammates, and are scared to rock the boat (IE, call a teammate out, get on his ass, show him up ect...). When you have those kids as the "studs" you can have issues. They actively hold the team back, because they don't want to work hard.
When your studs aren't afraid, that's the leadership you need. I know, real deep insight.
I've been really thinking about how to get kids to understand that "friends" can call out friends. How to phrase it without coming out like some hollywood junk. More importantly, how to phrase it without throwing the last years team (and thus, half of this team) under the bus or calling out their "friends" in the process.
When I figure out how to do that, maybe I'll think about being a header.
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Post by phantom on Jul 9, 2010 22:24:25 GMT -6
Great topic, something I've really been thinking about. So many kids are worried about getting along with their teammates, and are scared to rock the boat (IE, call a teammate out, get on his ass, show him up ect...). When you have those kids as the "studs" you can have issues. They actively hold the team back, because they don't want to work hard. When your studs aren't afraid, that's the leadership you need. I know, real deep insight. I've been really thinking about how to get kids to understand that "friends" can call out friends. How to phrase it without coming out like some hollywood junk. More importantly, how to phrase it without throwing the last years team (and thus, half of this team) under the bus or calling out their "friends" in the process. When I figure out how to do that, maybe I'll think about being a header. Before I write this let me say that I only wish that I had a foolproof way of doing what I'm going to describe. If I could find a way to do this I'd write a book and make millions OR I could give it away and bring about world peace. Sadly, though, we're dealing with human beings with free will. Just like in the classroom- make it about the behavior, not the person. Besides doing it yourself sell the players that when somebody's being called out-preferably in private- it's about what they're doing, not about them as a person. Teach them that anybody can take the easy way and say what a friend wants to hear but a real friend says what needs to be said. That isn't always popular and it sure ain't easy. |
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Post by phantom on Jul 10, 2010 9:13:32 GMT -6
Here's a story about a couple of guys that we had a few years ago. It was told to us by other players who were in the room.
We had a great FS called G- just a great, tough, smart football player. His best friend on the team, a kid named Bellamy, was just the opposite- a talented athlete but a loafing, unfocused whiner. One day they were hanging around the house. Bellamy was whining that the coaches didn't like him and that we were always trying to replace him. G looked at him calmly and said matter-of-factly, "Well, that's because you're a lying MFer".
So, let's analyze the situation:
First, remember that for our guys the word MFer is just a noun like any other, not an over the top insult.
Can Bellamy get mad and fight G? LOL. Not in THIS lifetime.
Can he argue? G's a friend and obviously has Bellamy's best interest at heart. Plus, there was a room full of players and not one cast a dissenting opinion.
How did it work out? Bellamy WAS replaced but despite the fact that he was a popular guy nobody complained. We became a better team.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 10, 2010 21:23:31 GMT -6
Phantom,
GREAT POST!!
That is probably why you guys are the best PROGRAM in VA over the past decade.....
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Post by phantom on Jul 11, 2010 10:13:57 GMT -6
Phantom, GREAT POST!! That is probably why you guys are the best PROGRAM in VA over the past decade..... Thanks, Coach. Good luck this year. |
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Post by gdn56 on Jul 11, 2010 16:53:25 GMT -6
Very interesting thread. We have the problem where I am of our best players being afraid to step up and call anybody out. Matter of fact, the most vocal leader we have is a great kid, hard worker, and smart kid, but he's not the most popular guy in the world and not a lot of people have his back when he tries to be a leader ang get people to do things the right way.
Now back to the original topic of teammates vs. friends....we had a wide out in college who really got on my nerves as a person, I mean I really did not like his company, I thought he was obnoxious, and he told bad jokes....but, on the field, in the weight room, in the meeting rooms, he was 100% focused on his role as a part of our team and what could be done so that we would all have success. In spite of being one of my least favorite people as a friend, he is one of my best teammates ever, and that made me respect him, and continue to respect him...so in my opinion, I would choose teammates over friends, if they are in fact the teammates who are willing to sell out and do what it takes to get the job done.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 11, 2010 19:22:48 GMT -6
We are working on the concept of teammates being brothers...I tell them that Brothers argue and fight all the time...they don't have to be friends....but in the end they always have each others back..brothers also say what needs to be said..This concept of teammates telling the truth to each other is the hardest thing to teach in sports (imo)
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Post by gunrun on Jul 11, 2010 20:02:19 GMT -6
We are working on the concept of teammates being brothers...I tell them that Brothers argue and fight all the time...they don't have to be friends....but in the end they always have each others back..brothers also say what needs to be said..This concept of teammates telling the truth to each other is the hardest thing to teach in sports (imo) I like that analogy. |
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Post by td4tc on Jul 11, 2010 20:24:45 GMT -6
agree with all of this, but our best teams have always been the ones that were buddies on and off the field.the ones that hung out together..great to have the best of both worlds where the teammates are also good friends.
incidentally, the ND coach Chuck Martin gave a great talk at their clinic on "being a great teammate" as being his #1 goal at Grand Valley State where he won a million titles.
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Post by flexoption91 on Jul 13, 2010 13:43:39 GMT -6
We sell our kids on the same idea as jgordon. This is more than a team it is a family. In every family you get bickering, fighting, disputes, and hard times. But at the end of the day, the best families work through all that and come out stronger and as one.
The teams I have been associated with that won championships saw one another as combatants and opponents on the practice field. We had scuffles and hard knocks through the week, but come Friday they understood who the opponent was now. They trusted each other more than anything because they had battled all week.
That being said, like td4tc said, I also saw friendships between players grow because of hard battles. The best friends I have ever had in my life are also some of the people that I have had some of worst fights with. Kids that before did not see themselves as having anything in common with the guy next to him now had that bond. Now they not be the best man at each other’s wedding, but on-field and usually off-field friendship developed that made the team even closer.
So I think you need a little of both. If you can have kids that are friends but also understand when they need to punch their friend in the mouth when he needs to turn it on, that makes coaching a lot easier. As we all know, once Friday night hits we do not have a lot of control. We cannot play the game or control the huddle. These kids listen to each other way more than they listen to us anyways, so if you can get to the point where they trust each other as both teammates and friends they can self police each other and handle the ebb and flow of football.
I have long said, give me 11 guys that trust each other and can work together than 11 athletes.
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