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Post by wingtol on Jun 30, 2010 12:58:22 GMT -6
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Post by gunrun on Jun 30, 2010 15:05:33 GMT -6
Former player Ross Tucker on cnnsi.com this week made some suprising comments that got me thinking: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/06/25/mailbag/index.html#ixzz0sN5tS44k"The more I read and hear about the latest concussion research, from groups like the Sports Legacy Institute and the new NFL players panel led by Seahawks WR Sean Morey, the scarier it gets. At this point, I don't know if I would want my son to play football at all. That said, I love the game dearly and miss it every day." This is an article by the Sports Legacy Institute's 10 Point Plan to Save Football. It makes some good points: www.sportslegacy.org/images/10pointplan.pdfThe subject of helmets and concussions was a hot topic at the recent NFLPA Player Safety and Welfare Summit: msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Head-injuries-highlight-Safety-Summit-26123565This was the last part of the article: "If the Marine Corps can make a helmet that can stop an AK-47 round and the Marine ends up with a concussion and not a penetrating head injury, then we can come up with a helmet over time that - I don't think will ever be concussion-proof but - will be more protective of the player than it currently is,'' he said."
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Post by bccarnes on Jul 1, 2010 12:43:28 GMT -6
Scary stuff
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jul 1, 2010 13:17:02 GMT -6
I hate it when writers think it's cute to drop in little personal quotes that are false just because they think everybody else is just as ignorant as they are.
"If the Marine Corps can make a helmet that can stop an AK-47 round and the Marine ends up with a concussion and not a penetrating head injury, then we can come up with a helmet over time that - I don't think will ever be concussion-proof but - will be more protective of the player than it currently is,'' he said."
Whaa? The current helmet is the The Modular Integrated Communications Helmet (MICH TC-2000), which replaced the K-pot as guys called them. The PASGT. The AK-47 standard round is a FMJ 7.62X39. And, AK-47's are only the standard arm of "non standard" armies, however, our guys still face this round in the Middle East.
Here is what the manifacturers of the new kevlar helmet say:
"Until now, there’s never been a helmet designed to stop bullets, said Elder. The MICH uses a different version of Kevlar combined with different bonding techniques to form a shell capable of halting a submachine gun’s 9 mm round in addition to protecting against fragmentation. The current Kevlar helmet only protects against fragmentation and at most can deflect bullets."
And that has always been the case since they started potting "steel pots" on young men's heads. So, using this logic, We should expect a non-concussive helmet when the MICH is developed to stop an assault rifle bullet.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 1, 2010 15:00:03 GMT -6
I believe OJW's post qualifies for an "Oh SNAP!"
I'm still making my mind up on this issue, but I'm leaning towards the stance that, while scary, these issues are largely the result of players who've played far more than the 4 years that most of our boys will play. I'm curious if they could or would do an examination of John Gagliardi's guys at St. John's, who allegedly practice without pads/tackling for most of the season, to see how they hold up with regards to concussions, CTE, and the other issues. Mandating that coaches run their practices a certain way is extreme, but if there were evidence that an approach like Gagliardi's is superior, you'd have to be a pretty big @sshole to ignore it.
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 1, 2010 17:22:38 GMT -6
Why is it that we as coaches and proponents of the sport of football have to consistently defend ourselves with concussions? It is just as frequent an injury...if not more frequent in other activities such as skiing, snowboarding, cycling, lacrosse, hockey & soccer. In fact statistically, there are more injuries per participant in soccer than football at the HS level nationally. Yet they never seem to come under the same scrutiny as football. NFL players are the last subject group that should be tested and evaluated as the measuring stick for concussive syndromes. Choosing an occupation to play in the NFL comes with an inherant danger. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be studies on how to improve this...but don't take those numbers and apply them to the HS or Collegiate environment. The parameters of the sport at that level is beyond fair comparison.
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 1, 2010 17:33:14 GMT -6
ADDENDUM...I just read the article and now I'm even more pissed. How can a writer be so ignorant to foster a relationship between a concussive event and the concepts of character, moral terpitude & an overall view of self-worth. I guess this guy feels that this should become the new defense against murder, rape, drug abuse and general mayhem carried out by NFL players. He must be a wanna-be-lawyer. Death by suicide as a result of concussion??? Is he also a clinical psychologist AND neurosurgeon to make such a statement? I'm very offended by this scapegoat approach to the sport.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 1, 2010 17:37:08 GMT -6
Having worn my share of combat helmets, OJW is definitely right. If they made a combat helmet that stopped an assault rifle round, even a relatively weak one like an AK round, you wouldn`t be able to move (barring a breakthrough in materials technology). Those helmets are made to stop pistols, shrapnel, and ricochets, but mostly they`re made to protect you from dumb crap like tripping on your own feet and knocking yourself out on a hard floor as you run through a house.
Also, the standard weapon of many national and non-standard armies is the AK-74, not the AK-47. It`s just a detail that annoys me.
Back to football, this is only anecdotal, but I noticed far fewer concussions in my time with rugby than with football, because of 3 things:
1. The rules mandate that you wrap when you tackle and go to ground with the ballcarrier, and it is illegal to "dump tackle" or lift your opponent up to powerbomb him to the ground.
2. You are not allowed to leave your feet when you tackle, as in launching yourself.
3. No helmets means no big hard weapon and trying to use it as such hurts a lot.
Of course, proper football tackles involve wrapping, taking the ballcarrier to ground, not launching yourself (I tell my kids, if your feet aren't on the ground, what are you pushing off of?) and do not use the helmet as a weapon. But, we know this often isn't enforced by coaches, referees (where applicable) and is more or less encouraged on Sundays.
I might be nuts, but I advocate practicing tackling without pads.
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Post by phantom on Jul 1, 2010 18:35:56 GMT -6
Back to football, this is only anecdotal, but I noticed far fewer concussions in my time with rugby than with football, because of 3 things: 1. The rules mandate that you wrap when you tackle and go to ground with the ballcarrier, and it is illegal to "dump tackle" or lift your opponent up to powerbomb him to the ground. 2. You are not allowed to leave your feet when you tackle, as in launching yourself. 3. No helmets means no big hard weapon and trying to use it as such hurts a lot. . Don't forget to add that in rugby it's illegal to hit a ballcarrier in the head when tackling in the open field.
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Post by coach246 on Jul 1, 2010 18:36:07 GMT -6
I tell all the kids and parents to read the fine print on helmets. I will paraphrase Something to the affect that the helmet will not stop serious injury or concussions.
What more do you want. It is part of the game. There will ALWAYS be Helmet to Helmet contact at some point in a game.
Somekid,HS, or pro and college player will lead with his head, it happens. Want to stop injuries? Dont Play!!!
They are free to write what they want, by the way a combat helmet wont stop a concussion either, even if it could stop a bullett
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Post by phantom on Jul 1, 2010 18:41:33 GMT -6
My complaint is that drug/alcohol abuse is presumed to be caused by concussions. I'm not sure that it's not the other way around- that substance abuse doesn't contribute to the brain damage.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 1, 2010 19:09:40 GMT -6
Don't forget to add that in rugby it's illegal to hit a ballcarrier in the head when tackling in the open field. Excellent point, phantom. Head tackles, or any tackling above the shoulder, is generally illegal. It is known in football that this can be dangerous and it certainly isn't a proper way to tackle, so why do we allow it to continue? I agree that football carries an inherent risk of injury, and I think we should try to manage that risk. Grabbing players by the head and trying to wrestle them to the ground isn't effectively advancing your goal of stopping the ball carrier and brings with it risk of head injury, which is the cause celebre du jour. We wouldn't stand for it if DB's starting poking receivers in the eyes right off the snap? (yes, a slightly silly comparison, but it stands). I think football should be proactive in regulating itself, lest it get out of hand and government steps in. I don't want to seem all wimpy and favouring touch football, I encourage my kids to "inflict themselves" upon ballcarriers and "encourage them to go home," but only through a good clean hit, lead with the shoulder or chest, wrap with the arms and drive with the legs.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 2, 2010 6:35:32 GMT -6
I like how these writers always point out the bad situations. You never really see them focus on the guys who played for years in the NFL and are fine, at least as fine as you can be from playing in the NFL. Of course there will be players who end up worse for the wear. It’s all a numbers game, just like in the real world. Why do some people live to be 95 and some don’t make it past 60? Now don’t get me wrong concussions are serious business but let’s keep it in perspective when these guys get up on their soap boxes.
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 2, 2010 9:05:31 GMT -6
The concussions that our players have sustained over the past 10 years have occurred the following 2 ways...
1. Head hitting ground after being tackled by an opponent. 2. Helmet to helmet contact from a block coming from the side
Maybe once was there an issue with a RB lowering his head and initiating helmet-to-helmet contact with a defender.
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Post by airman on Jul 2, 2010 12:48:07 GMT -6
I do find it interesting the coaching culture more equals better. I was in a college situation where I would get done well before the head coach. I read a lot of books with my office door closed.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jul 2, 2010 13:03:36 GMT -6
I just had this conversation with another coach and brought up my rugby days. Might be a stupid idea but maybe we should switch back to leather helmets and less padding so people actually feel the hits and arent in turning into human missiles. I'd rather see less big hits and see more people healthy and have less naysayers talking about the barbaric sport of football.
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Post by airman on Jul 2, 2010 13:12:42 GMT -6
I just had this conversation with another coach and brought up my rugby days. Might be a stupid idea but maybe we should switch back to leather helmets and less padding so people actually feel the hits and arent in turning into human missiles. I'd rather see less big hits and see more people healthy and have less naysayers talking about the barbaric sport of football. i like this idea. football players used to be though minded men. now they know they have protection to fall back upon. also, while I think it is admirable the US military is focusing on such a helmet I too think soldiers will get a false sense of protection. not to mention the AK is a popular rifle but the FAL is referred as " The Right Arm of Freedom" and is used extensively though out the world. I have one and love it because of its simplicity and the fact is uses a .308 winchester .
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Post by tog on Jul 2, 2010 18:24:47 GMT -6
geez
there is risk in everything
the benefits far outweigh the risk
wussification galore in our country these days
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 2, 2010 18:55:46 GMT -6
geez there is risk in everything the benefits far outweigh the risk wussification galore in our country these days Couldn't the same be said by fans of smoking? I am a bit disturbed by the immediate dismissal and counter attacking here. Again, I liken this to big Tobacco when it FIRST started coming out that it was hazardous.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 3, 2010 10:50:46 GMT -6
I think that, as high school coaches, our primary concern should be teaching and emphasizing better, safe tackling methods (ex: Clemens' "shimmy tackle" method or Wyatt's "chest up, chin up" method). We should also be looking at what blocking methods we teach (hands, shoulder, etc) and try to use the ones that are the safest and that are most inline with our philosophy. That's what we CAN control and we SHOULD control.
Other than that, I've heard getting a $300 mouthpiece does almost as much as a $300 helmet, but I don't know how much comfort that gives me.
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Post by 19delta on Jul 3, 2010 11:23:17 GMT -6
Pretty scary, but I thought this was the best sentence in the article:
"Will I forbid my kid from playing football? Maybe. Right after I forbid him from driving.''
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