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Post by rgrmaverick on Jun 29, 2010 19:56:05 GMT -6
Not football but ... OMG!
Only in Canada eh?
Parents sue GTHL after sons cut.
Two sets of parents are suing the Greater Toronto Hockey League, one of its clubs and four coaches for $25,000 each because their sons were cut by the Avalanche Minor Sports Club midget junior A team during tryouts in April.
It’s the first time parents in the GTHL have ever taken legal action against the league or one of its teams for declining the services of their children, says league president John Gardner.
Even nationally, it’s a rare event.
“We have had very few lawsuits on ice time or (player) cuts,” said Hockey Canada's Glen McCurdie director of member services. “There are more threats than actual suits.”
Vito Valela and David Longo are both suing on behalf of their sons, Christopher and Daniel respectively. Besides the GTHL, Avalanche Minor Sports president Anthony Iantorno as well as team officials Doriano Pistarelli, Andy Vandenberk, Felice Guglielmi and Peter Posca are named as defendants in the action.
“Their direct actions have caused irreparable psychological damage to Daniel Longo’s self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralized Daniel as an athlete and team hockey player with his peers,” the Longo statement of claim reads. “The conduct by all defendants destroyed the dignity of my son, whom in good conscience gave his team nothing but his best efforts.”
Valela’s statement of claim states: “When Christopher was advised of his termination by my wife and I, he vowed never to play the game he loved since childhood. And, morevoer, his misguided group of defendants demoralized my wife and I, whom had gone well beyond the call of duty as parents in support of the Toronto Avalanche hockey team for two seasons.”
None of the claims have been proved in court.
“Thank the good Lord that my son had the courage and strength to compose himself in his demoralized state,” reads the statement of claim.
A statement of defence from the defendants says more than 70 players tried out for the Avalanche Midget Jr. team.
“We were looking for 17 players. It was inevitable there were going to be players released. … All players attending try-outs from the Minor league level to the National League level (i.e. NHL and Canadian Olympic Team) realize that not making the team they are trying out for is a strong possibility and a lawsuit does not solve anything.”
WHAT NEXT?
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Post by hustleandheart on Jun 29, 2010 20:13:54 GMT -6
There's no way the parents can possibly win this, right?
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jun 29, 2010 20:19:25 GMT -6
wow
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Post by bouncingboredom on Jun 29, 2010 20:40:59 GMT -6
The parents are about to teach their kids #82 on the list of "101 ways to get a spurious claims suit filed against you"
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Post by mattyg2787 on Jun 29, 2010 21:02:12 GMT -6
So to make sure I understand.
Kid goes to tryouts
Kid isn't good enough to play for team he was TRYING OUT FOR
Parents blame coach and league
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Post by briangilbert on Jun 29, 2010 22:39:03 GMT -6
And our society officially sucks.
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Post by gunrun on Jun 30, 2010 5:04:02 GMT -6
“Thank the good Lord that my son had the courage and strength to compose himself in his demoralized state,” reads the statement of claim. LOL. What tremendous adversity these two kids had to overcome! You've got to be kidding me. |
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Post by gdn56 on Jun 30, 2010 7:13:05 GMT -6
I think I just threw up a little bit. Society sucks now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 30, 2010 8:55:31 GMT -6
This is why we should pull out of the Middle East..and invade Canada and France.  All kidding aside, I am sure there are some OTHER factors that I would like to hear that would be helpful in managing tryout situations. I would love to have heard the process for tryouts and cuts. I have read about a similar lawsuit (but I think it was cheer squad) where the way they handled the notification was what brought about the action. It apparently was run almost like an elimination TV show like Hell's Kitchen. Hell, I wasn't particularly happy with how my own school (K-5) handled their dance team notifications..they had all the crying 9 and 10 year old girls outside by themselves. I am not saying this is a valid use of law suits, just saying that when something like this comes up... there is almost ALWAYS more to it then the cursory treatment in the first article. Like the infamous Mcdonalds coffee spill case. On surface, seems like an asinine situation. When ALL facts were revealed, the lady had a case. Of course, parents are ALWAYS stupid when it comes to their kids...and if they thought they were humiliated before....what good comes from this? Lesson to be learned here is to make sure you have an organized method for making cuts, and make them as discrete and innocuous as possible. |
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Post by leighty on Jun 30, 2010 9:00:59 GMT -6
I didn't make my junior high baseball team. Do you think the statute of limitations has run out?
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Post by gdn56 on Jun 30, 2010 9:05:26 GMT -6
ha ha that's awesome leighty.
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Post by coachdennis on Jun 30, 2010 9:18:24 GMT -6
OK, I am officially embarrassed to say that this happened in Canada. Up here, though, hockey is like high school football in Texas, and having your kid get cut from the competitive team is a source of deep shame when you have to see the other parents at the grocery store.
What I noticed from the story is that the kids had played on the team the years before. There is an entitlement mentality that sets in with parents and players once a kid has made the team in previous years. The expectation is that they will never be cut - once you are on the team, you are there forever, right? This reaction, while extreme, is fairly typical of what I see happen in hockey up here when a team dares to cut a kid who was a long time "rep" player. It is also why teams shy away from cutting those kids - if it's close, it is a lot easier to cut the kid who is trying out for the first time, as opposed to upsetting the apple cart and cutting the kid whose parents have been fixtures around the rink for years. It's wrong, but my experience is that this is the direction most coaches take.
FWIW, competitive soccer in our neck of the woods has eliminated that by having independent evaluators pick the teams. They found they simply had to remove the coaches from the process in order to avoid issues like this.
Finally, I'm not sure there is any "nice" way to cut a kid. No matter what, you are delivering some unpleasant news, and it is not going to be received well. I generally call the parents at home, and then follow it up with an e-mail. Call it the coward's way out if you wish, but I think that cutting a kid at the field in front of his peers is needlessly cruel. I know of an organization that tells all kids to bring a change of clothes to the last practice before cuts. They cut them at the field, and take their gear right then and there. This is a club that also keeps its starters on the field in the fourth quarter of blowouts, so caring about the emotional well being of the players isn't exactly high on their agenda.
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Post by hlb2 on Jun 30, 2010 9:50:07 GMT -6
OK, I am officially embarrassed to say that this happened in Canada. Up here, though, hockey is like high school football in Texas, and having your kid get cut from the competitive team is a source of deep shame when you have to see the other parents at the grocery store. What I noticed from the story is that the kids had played on the team the years before. There is an entitlement mentality that sets in with parents and players once a kid has made the team in previous years. The expectation is that they will never be cut - once you are on the team, you are there forever, right? This reaction, while extreme, is fairly typical of what I see happen in hockey up here when a team dares to cut a kid who was a long time "rep" player. It is also why teams shy away from cutting those kids - if it's close, it is a lot easier to cut the kid who is trying out for the first time, as opposed to upsetting the apple cart and cutting the kid whose parents have been fixtures around the rink for years. It's wrong, but my experience is that this is the direction most coaches take. FWIW, competitive soccer in our neck of the woods has eliminated that by having independent evaluators pick the teams. They found they simply had to remove the coaches from the process in order to avoid issues like this. Finally, I'm not sure there is any "nice" way to cut a kid. No matter what, you are delivering some unpleasant news, and it is not going to be received well. I generally call the parents at home, and then follow it up with an e-mail. Call it the coward's way out if you wish, but I think that cutting a kid at the field in front of his peers is needlessly cruel. I know of an organization that tells all kids to bring a change of clothes to the last practice before cuts. They cut them at the field, and take their gear right then and there. This is a club that also keeps its starters on the field in the fourth quarter of blowouts, so caring about the emotional well being of the players isn't exactly high on their agenda. We had a softball parent suggest the hiring of independant counsel to pick who plays. Bullsh!t is what I say, if it comes to this, I'm out. This is when a good ol' back alley thumpin' would so some good...we call that country justice down here. |
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Post by kcbazooka on Jun 30, 2010 11:20:11 GMT -6
if they win this suit I've already got a case planned. The next time one of my defensive back gets beat deep I'm going to sue the parents for their genetics. If the parens had just procreated with faster mates I wouldn't have to do this.
They have caused me " irreparable psychological damage", definately "demoralized" me, and have "destroy my dignity" amongst my peers...
Bring it on baby, I got Barnaby Jones, Perry Mason and Johnny Cochran ready to come back to defend me...
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Post by coachdennis on Jun 30, 2010 11:32:06 GMT -6
Our police tried doling out a little bit of, "country justice" at the G20 in Toronto, and some folks are upset. :-)
I would actually be interested to see what an independent evaluator would say about my team selections relative to mine. My guess is that we would agree on virtually all of the 36 roster spots. There are some tough judgment calls on those last few spots, but most of the decisions, either positive or negative, are pretty self-evident to anyone with an experienced eye.
Not sure about the experience of others, but I generally find that my coaching staff is in agreement on all the roster decisions. I can't ever recall a time when an assistant coach felt put out because we cut a kid he felt strongly about. That's probably because when it comes to youth football, that 36th kid on your roster isn't going to make or break your season. We might have 15 to 20 kids who can really play, and then a bunch more who, while nice kids and a joy to their parents, just aren't that robust athletically. You want to get those last few roster calls right in fairness to the kids concerned, not because it is really going to affect your competitiveness.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 30, 2010 12:36:14 GMT -6
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 30, 2010 12:37:34 GMT -6
coachdennis is right on about the stature of hockey, and about the common feeling that kids who played at a given level last year are assured of a spot this year, which leads to kids dogging it in tryouts when they aren't good enough to get away with it, then they get cut for a kid whose grown/developed over the last year.
Usually in hockey, after the tryout the coaches gather and determine whose left (usually 5-ish rounds of cuts) and post the remaining players on a bulletin board by the changeroom door. Kids are identified by pinney number, so there's a modicum of anonimity, but it's plain to see by next tryout who isn't back.
Much of their case seems based on the fact that the coach had previously been suspended for tampering and should not have been the coach.
This seems a bit ironic, since I know many coaches pick their last couple roster spots based on who has the best parents to deal with, but here they cut the worst parents and it's backfiring.
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Post by Luther Van Dam on Jun 30, 2010 14:04:15 GMT -6
What happened to telling them the Michael Jordan story, working hard, and trying again next year?
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Post by k on Jun 30, 2010 19:38:13 GMT -6
Wanna bet that these parents have more money than Exxon-Mobil?
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Post by Juliath on Jun 30, 2010 22:07:19 GMT -6
We're quickly becoming a society that can't face adversity. I worry.
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Post by hlb2 on Jul 1, 2010 11:57:53 GMT -6
We're quickly becoming a society that can't face adversity. I worry. Wow, good quote/thought. And so true...look at the oil spill. Oops, we'll give every Tom, Dick and Harry who has a shrimp boat millions, jus' cause they have a shrimp boat now! Instead of getting off their a$$ and doing something about it, we throw money at people to get them to go away. Makes you shudder at what we've let ourselves become. |
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Post by wingt74 on Jul 1, 2010 12:09:50 GMT -6
c'mon coaches, not so much doom and gloom. The media knows these stories have shock to them, so as soon as one comes out, it's all over the wires.
I have had my share of problem parents, and some kids ride the bench with parents that get mad, had a kid quit because i put him at guard instead of TE, but it's not that bad...at least in my neck of the woods (WI)
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 1, 2010 12:43:54 GMT -6
Wow, good quote/thought. And so true...look at the oil spill. Oops, we'll give every Tom, thingy and Harry who has a shrimp boat millions, jus' cause they have a shrimp boat now! Instead of getting off their a$$ and doing something about it, we throw money at people to get them to go away. Makes you shudder at what we've let ourselves become. Fairly ignorant and grossly uninformed statement there...but interesting in seeing how the rest of the country views the situation. |
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coachbigelow
Junior Member
Coach at Southern Virginia University
Posts: 261
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Post by coachbigelow on Jul 1, 2010 18:52:02 GMT -6
Could you post the link of the story to this?
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 1, 2010 19:19:39 GMT -6
I was talking to my dad, who used to be president of a fairly large minor hockey association near Toronto (not at all associated with GTHL). We couldn`t figure out the grounds of the case. It could be wrongful dismissal, if the kid felt he was on the team by virtue of having been in the team last year, discriminatory hiring practices, if he felt he was discriminated against because of his lack of talent, or maybe lost potential earnings, since he wouldn't get to the pros? (hockey parents are actually nuttier than football ones, if you can believe it. Parents have beaten each other to death in the stands over playing time in 9 year old hockey)
Still, none of these made any sense. Maybe they should keep all 75 kids who tried out, give them each 4 minutes of ice time per game?
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Post by phantom on Jul 1, 2010 20:24:51 GMT -6
Not football but ... OMG! Only in Canada eh? Parents sue GTHL after sons cut. Two sets of parents are suing the Greater Toronto Hockey League, one of its clubs and four coaches for $25,000 each because their sons were cut by the Avalanche Minor Sports Club midget junior A team during tryouts in April. It’s the first time parents in the GTHL have ever taken legal action against the league or one of its teams for declining the services of their children, says league president John Gardner. Even nationally, it’s a rare event. “We have had very few lawsuits on ice time or (player) cuts,” said Hockey Canada's Glen McCurdie director of member services. “There are more threats than actual suits.” Vito Valela and David Longo are both suing on behalf of their sons, Christopher and Daniel respectively. Besides the GTHL, Avalanche Minor Sports president Anthony Iantorno as well as team officials Doriano Pistarelli, Andy Vandenberk, Felice Guglielmi and Peter Posca are named as defendants in the action. “Their direct actions have caused irreparable psychological damage to Daniel Longo’s self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralized Daniel as an athlete and team hockey player with his peers,” the Longo statement of claim reads. “The conduct by all defendants destroyed the dignity of my son, whom in good conscience gave his team nothing but his best efforts.” Valela’s statement of claim states: “When Christopher was advised of his termination by my wife and I, he vowed never to play the game he loved since childhood. And, morevoer, his misguided group of defendants demoralized my wife and I, whom had gone well beyond the call of duty as parents in support of the Toronto Avalanche hockey team for two seasons.” None of the claims have been proved in court. “Thank the good Lord that my son had the courage and strength to compose himself in his demoralized state,” reads the statement of claim. A statement of defence from the defendants says more than 70 players tried out for the Avalanche Midget Jr. team. “We were looking for 17 players. It was inevitable there were going to be players released. … All players attending try-outs from the Minor league level to the National League level (i.e. NHL and Canadian Olympic Team) realize that not making the team they are trying out for is a strong possibility and a lawsuit does not solve anything.” WHAT NEXT? Did they pay to get on the team and if so did they get their money back? |
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Post by phantom on Jul 1, 2010 20:31:34 GMT -6
Not sure why any of you think it's right for these 2 kids to get cut, to face failure and learn how to deal with it. Failure is not a part of REAL life. Shame on you. I was cut from our JV baseball team. If I hadn't been cut I should have sued for loss of self esteem because I really sucked and would have embarassed myself more by playing. |
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Post by fatkicker on Jul 1, 2010 22:42:37 GMT -6
We've never cut anybody from football but baseball...different story... We had to keep paperwork with measurable drills... So many hits, so many errors, etc... We had a comment section for opinion but it couldn't be the only reason for cutting... Pain in the butt but no argument when we could show that lil johnny hit 2 out of 20 pitches at 65 mph
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Post by td4tc on Jul 2, 2010 4:51:53 GMT -6
why we don't cut anybody..they cut themselves by not following our code
However, there are BAD cuts out there where the coach, for whatever reason, plays to favorites or simply doesn't like a kid who's better.or worse gets intimidated by one of these parents to keep a player....
happened to one of my football players who tried out for the bball team this year.great guy.one of our captains on the fball team..MVP of JV bball team year before and clearly talent wise in their top 6 but V coach clearly didn't like him for some reason(maybe jealous of his Fball success)...crushed the kid.i tried to stick up for him to no avail..coach got axed this year(he was a dick) but the player was the one who got hurt the most..
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Post by threeback on Jul 2, 2010 9:39:51 GMT -6
Wow, good quote/thought. And so true...look at the oil spill. Oops, we'll give every Tom, thingy and Harry who has a shrimp boat millions, jus' cause they have a shrimp boat now! Instead of getting off their a$$ and doing something about it, we throw money at people to get them to go away. Makes you shudder at what we've let ourselves become. Fairly ignorant and grossly uninformed statement there...but interesting in seeing how the rest of the country views the situation. Gotta agree with this assessment of this quote right here. I happen to live a stone's throw from this spill, got a couple of family members that happen to commercial fish for a living, and are now faced with not being able to pursue their livelihood and still try to meet their monthly notes. As far as "millions"..do you have the foggiest idea how much these guys out of work are getting? It's obvious you don't have the foggiest idea..b/c right now my relative is having to work 2 other jobs to support his family and make ends meet-How's that for "getting of their a$$es?" Good enough for you? ... to lump them in with this thread is an asinine and ignorant statement on your end. Come down here and see what's going on before making such a judgemental statement like this. Easy to pass judgement on a situation when you get an update on the news..alot harder when you have to live it. In no way, shape, or form does this tie into this thread. Apologize for the hi-jack, rant over... |
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