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Post by coachkeeling412 on Apr 15, 2010 8:10:50 GMT -6
I am getting new Goal boards and I was wondering some of your best ideas for offense defense and special teams?
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Post by hsrose on Apr 15, 2010 8:55:29 GMT -6
Got these from a local JC coach. Has them mounted on 3 20x30 posters in the main hallway outside the weight room.
Kicking game goals Kickoff – Opponent average starting LOS inside 30 Kick Return – Average starting LOS >32 Punt – net >31 yard average Punt Return – Opponent net <25 yard average FG/PAT – 100% Extra Point, 80% Field Goal FG/PAT defense – 80% Extra Point, 50% Field Goal
Offensive - game goals Control the LOS - Rush for over 200 yards Protect the QB - One Sack or Less Secure the Football - One Turnover at Most Per Game Own the Red Zone - 80% or higher scoring Win 3rd Down - 3rd Down % >40%
Defensive - game goals Win - Defense wins championships Limit Points - <17 Stop The run - 99 yards or less, or <3.7 yds/attempt No Big Plays - No runs 20+ or passes 40+ pressure QB - Hits on QB >10 Tackling & Pursuit - yards after missed tackle <50 yards Win 3rd down - 3rd Down % < 37% Turnovers - >3 Turnovers per game Limit Yardage - Total yards <299
These are down the left side, teams across the top. Then he fills in the squares as the season progresses.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2010 6:17:18 GMT -6
I am getting new Goal boards and I was wondering some of your best ideas for offense defense and special teams? Coach, try doing a search. I know the search function is the one weakness of the site, but this topic has been discussed before, ranging from coaches listing their goal boards to people expressing the opinion that they are just an absolute waste of your already limited time You could also just skim through thread titles for a bit to see if anything pops up. My personal opinion is that they are a waste of time since the goals are NOT independent of other factors and don't directly correlate to wins. For example, looking at the list above, which is fairly common and representative : If you play an opponent with an exceptional returner, it might be in your teams best interest to not kick deep and try to pin the team. Trying to achieve this goal could be detrimental to your success. In order to achieve 80% FG's, the kicker must EITHER be perfect, OR attempt at least 5 FG's in the game. Not many games are won with 5 FG attempts. Obviously you could rip nearly every goal apart like this, and that is why I think they are a waste of time. Find something that YOU control completely, and that ABSOLUTELY will impact the outcome of the game.
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Post by hsrose on Apr 16, 2010 8:03:51 GMT -6
I think one of the differences is if the goal board is a "these are our goals and it would be nice to make them" vs. "these are our goals and if we don't make them we will find out why and adjust".
The coach at CSM started the year with the team setting the team goals - win conference. They then went in and looked at everything and threw out anything that didn't support that team goal. They changed warm ups, number of plays, style of defense, etc. The coaches and the players came up with the goals above as measures of success, they felt that if they rushed for more than 200 yards, if they blocked a FG, if they didn't take a sack they would be successful.
After each game the DC/OC/SC would mark up the boards and in the team meeting on Monday they would go over the boards in the full team meeting. They felt these were team goals so the team would go over them. These weren't just something posted on the wall that everyone glanced at as they went to weights. These were the measures by which they judged their performance and identified areas to concentrate on. These were things that the OC/DC/SC were measured on.
We can talk about what the values are and how they are valuable or worthless. The real point is are the team goals pretty decorations on the wall or are they real measures that contribute to winning/getting better. If they are decorations don't even bother. But if they are truly the measures by which the players and coaches are judged each week, then they have value.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2010 7:59:02 GMT -6
We can talk about what the values are and how they are valuable or worthless. The real point is are the team goals pretty decorations on the wall or are they real measures that contribute to winning/getting better. If they are decorations don't even bother. But if they are truly the measures by which the players and coaches are judged each week, then they have value. I agree. The methodology you described in your post is something I agree with. I just think that what they came up with are arbitrary, dependent results and not quantifiable processes that they are in control of. The goals that were listed do not contribute to winning/getting better. They are the RESULTS of underlying processes. You can go down the list with most and easily come up with scenarios where trying to achieve that goal does not contribute to winning. Meaning they are just like 90% of goal boards out there...wastes of limited time.
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Post by lochness on Apr 17, 2010 9:13:03 GMT -6
We have a goal board. It has our opponent's names on it, and next to each name we put a "W" or an "L."
Those are the only goals that matter.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 18, 2010 10:24:37 GMT -6
We have a goal board. It has our opponent's names on it, and next to each name we put a "W" or an "L." Those are the only goals that matter. I think that there are definitely objectives that you can try to achieve that are independent of your opponent and directly relate to winning games. I just don't think that the typical : Rush for ______ yards Pass for _______ yards Hold opponent to _____ Get _____ turnovers are those objectives. Those are results,based on interactions with the opponent and the only RESULT that matters is winning. Measuring things like Hustle grades Mental errors (alignment, attempting assignment, procedure pentalties, correct personnel on field at all times) 2nd man in strip attempts Snapping ball within ____seconds of ready for play or with only ____ seconds left on play clock... etc. are independent of any interaction with the opponent, and all contribute to an increased chance at winning.
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Post by hsrose on Apr 18, 2010 23:20:20 GMT -6
I know that the variability of each game somewhat reduces the value of setting per-game goals. Sometimes your passing is just on fire and your rushing is dead. You change/adapt/adjust and win the game. But if you sit down and ask your staff/players how many yards they would need to rush for, on average, to have a high probability of winning, you would have a number that would have some value. same for passing, same for defense. You can have 5 measures, or 50, just depends on how fine you want to slice the data that each game generates.
These are like the productivity measures that companies use to determine their performance. How many x's did we move this month? How many days without a injury-related work stoppage? How many user calls did we answer today? This week? This month? As the management guys say "what gets measured gets done". In order to rush for 200 yards per game, you would have to have the OL in synch with the backs, the OC calling the right plays, and the players in the right places.
You can use any set of measures you want as your goals/objectives/things to do. The big thing is are they pretty decorations for the wall, or are they the core of how you measure your performance?
I see a lot of coaches here that go into great detail on how the OL will block on a 3-step vs. a 5-step, or how the OLB in a 4-4 will change against this offense compared to that offensive scheme. It just seems that to put that much effort into a "program" but then to have the only result that matters being win or loss is contrary to the amount of work that went into the O/D schemes.
You either measure things or you don't. If you do, then the measures, and the accompanying feedback mechanism, have to be ingrained into your operations.
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