|
|
Post by Defcord on Mar 30, 2010 19:43:19 GMT -6
I was wondering what philosophies you guys take towards JV teams. I am a head JV coach this year in baseball after being a head varsity coach for three years.
As a head coach of an overall program I always felt it was important to have as many players as possible and play them as often as possible. This worked out in may ways because we had some players that developed from freshman to senior year that ended up being studs that we would have been cut as freshmen. As a JV coach my head coach lets me decide. Tonight we dressed 19 kids and I got each one in the game. We blew a 5-2 lead with our not so hot players in.
I am sticking with my philosophy to play as many as we can and as often as we can here.
My question is how do you guys feel about JV philosophy??? What is the main purposes of a JV team?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Mar 30, 2010 19:56:04 GMT -6
It its not soccer...
After the freshman year, you have to pay to play.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Mar 30, 2010 21:01:59 GMT -6
To me the main purpose of the JV team is to #1 play guys who love football that have been busting their butt all week...#2 develop future talent..although we like to win..not near the first priority
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Mar 30, 2010 21:12:51 GMT -6
JV = varsity prep. No more 5th quarter, no more everyone gets in, but still focused on skill development and learning the system. Wins and losses aren't as important as doing it right.
|
|
ramsoc
Junior Member
Posts: 431
|
Post by ramsoc on Mar 30, 2010 21:53:10 GMT -6
JV = varsity prep. No more 5th quarter, no more everyone gets in, but still focused on skill development and learning the system. Wins and losses aren't as important as doing it right. Agree with everything but that last part. Wins and losses are still important, at least in our program to generating interest. We have open enrollment in our district. So if your JV team isn't winning, then the athletes will go somewhere else as they enter high school. |
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Mar 30, 2010 23:46:54 GMT -6
Suppose I could revise that to "aren't the end-all, be-all", but yeah, a winning JV team ensures good return for their varsity seasons.
|
|
|
|
Post by hlb2 on Mar 31, 2010 5:27:35 GMT -6
We are having some major issues with this. We have had some sophs. quit because they do not want to be on JV. They'd rather be on varsity, and sit I guess. We've had to decent JV sqads the past w years, but have lost sophs. to "I wanna be on varsity coach..." as well (we've gone a combined 10-8 the last 2 seasons including beating several arch rivals). What do you do? We want to keep them down as long as we can, and if we don't have to have sohps. playing varsity we feel we are to the better. However the kids view and our view is totally different. So what they are doing is sitting out a year, and coming out as juniors. Not a good plan if you ask me, but we can't seem to talk them out of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 31, 2010 7:41:45 GMT -6
hlb--seems like a potential easy fix for you guys is to "eliminate" the JV program. Everyone is on the Varsity...and those that don't play Varsity games play JV games.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachCP on Mar 31, 2010 8:16:36 GMT -6
I remember in HS, we ran a program that was much like what coachd said. Granted, we had a Freshman A,B, and C team, a Sophomore A and B team, and a Varsity squad, with the JV players being those who didn't play or played sparingly in the varsity game.
|
|
20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
|
Post by 20x on Mar 31, 2010 8:29:04 GMT -6
As far as a JV baseball program goes I tell my JV coach he needs to deliver me about x amount of players for next year. Those kids that we know we need will play almost every inning we can get them. The reality of JV baseball is why give a bunch of innings to kids that will NEVER play varsity. They are on JV so I have a roster big enough to play the kids I need.
It doesn't mean they never play, it means a few of those kids will share positions with each other, while the future studs get at bats and innings pitched/played.
Baseball is a completely different animal than football. Football needs numbers. I hope to get 5 to 6 kids a class in baseball, so I am not concernced with certain kids quitting.
|
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Mar 31, 2010 8:53:56 GMT -6
I like letting everyone play.
I also like winning.
I think the later is more important (for the good of the whole program) and it takes precedent.
|
|
|
|
Post by playsmart on Mar 31, 2010 11:02:20 GMT -6
I agree with the winning takes priority over every one playing. I would like to get every equal number of snaps but that is unrealistic and unfair to the program.
My viewing on this is..."Everyone wants to be on a winning team (even if they don't play) and no one wants to be on a losing team (even if they do play). Around here, most of the winning programs have a much greater number of kids on their teams than the losing programs. Everyone plays the same amount of games.
|
|
|
|
Post by fatkicker on Mar 31, 2010 11:27:10 GMT -6
i hate to admit this....but i like the idea of everybody playing in JV.... baseball or football....
i'd don't want to see that 5'8" 8th grader quit, and in two years he's 6'1" without an inning or snap of organized school sports....
it seems that most of the schools where i've coached used this idea and it worked..... we may not have had the best JV or junior high teams, but our high school teams always had big numbers and were always competitive in our division....
one thing to add..... our high school staff has always coached jv and junior high......so, it was easy for us to make sacrifices to get ready for high school......
i do think it would be unfair to ask a seperate coaching staff to give up their season for the sake of high school though..... i mean how do you go in and ask a header to take butt whippins so you can have high numbers every year.....
|
|
juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
|
Post by juice10 on Mar 31, 2010 11:31:57 GMT -6
We preach winning but winning isn't our total and overall goal. We take pride on teaching our JV players how to win and what it takes to win. If you are a player that doesn't know how or what it takes to win, then you playing time is very limited. Essentially, busting your hump, being accountable, being on time, and knowing your role is important in our JV philosophy. Our best kids play the most, and if we can, we will try to play everyone. Doesn't always happen, but we want our kids developed and ready to play at the next level when they are juniors or seniors.
|
|
|
|
Post by huthuthut on Mar 31, 2010 22:09:20 GMT -6
We try to play everyone on the frosh and jv level. Not necessarily a lot of reps, but we feel like if the player isn't a discipline problem and works hard in practice he needs to get in the game. Remember, it's a frosh or JV game. There are many opportunities with special teams to get players in a few plays. Our problem is that a few of the teams on our schedule refuse to do special teams. I hate that I would rather not schedule them, but have to because of travel/schedule. I always tell them that if they aren't going to do special teams they can't run trick plays on offense or blitz on defense because we didn't work on them that week! They're just as much of the games as special teams. Funny what some coaches choose to work on. How do you develop kickers/returners/snappers if you never do it until the varsity level?
That said, we still try to win. If we put them in the game and they can't line up or don't know their assignment we'll pull them out quickly. If you can't do that, you're not ready to be on the field and could get someone hurt.
|
|
|
|
Post by calicoachh on Apr 2, 2010 5:54:17 GMT -6
we try to get most of the JV guys into the game at some point. However, the better guys will play significantly more. The JV is for preparing guys for the varsity.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 2, 2010 6:22:29 GMT -6
There isn't a contradiction between getting kids ready for varsity and playing to win. They are not mutually exclusive. JVs go on the field to win.
Our philosophy of playing time is the same at both levels as well.
|
|
ou812
Sophomore Member
Posts: 226
|
Post by ou812 on Apr 2, 2010 7:30:57 GMT -6
I work at a small school where I have job security, a very important point in sticking to my philosophy. Please keep in mind that I have not seen a school in our section with more players on their roster in about 10 years. On the Varsity level, we have a win % in the low 70s since 2001. We started doing this 14 years ago when our school was a laughing stock and now we are a yearly contender. So before you convict me of being a communist or worse...a soccer coach, the following plan has been a large part of our success. We went to this philosophy to build numbers and develop some lesser players. I thought we would eventually change when we started to win, but is has been so good to us, we keep it.
Any player that does not play in a Varsity game will rotate in the JV game, if he is living up to his obligations and practicing hard. We rotate players in by the series. We have a 1st, 2nd and third offense and defense that rotate themselves in no matter what the game situation is. Most of the time we do not have a complete third unit, so our studs wind up playing in the third rotation as well. This is where they get the extra reps. In the game, the better players know that they need to shut the other team down on D and score on O, because the other guys are coming in next. The other guys know that the cavalry is not coming to save the day if it is their turn to be on the field, so they have to produce. This puts every player in a pressure situation way before they reach the varsity level.
We never get waxed, but we are in plenty of tight games. This has helped us immensely at the varsity level as we very rarely lose a game that is decided by less than 8 points. This philosophy has "cost" us very few games. Truth be told, and the Varsity HC, I could care less whether our JV is 6-2-1 or 9-0. Any loss or tie is used to refocus our players on their weaknesses.
This has helped us develop some players that certainly would have been cut or quit as younger players who have ranged anywhere from productive to All-Sate as Seniors. It has worked for us.
It is not perfect, some parents HATE it! They want to complain that their kid is not getting enough playing time to develop for varsity. Fortunately, I can point to years or results to prove other wise. They also forget that while their boys were freshman they were playing and not sitting the bench. It has been worth the complaints.
The only thing I can promise you is that you will keep more kids in your program them. If you develop them, you have a chance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2010 7:53:50 GMT -6
I'm paraphrasing a talk I heard a very successful HC give. He's won multiple state titles in small school IL ball (five, I think) and has numerous second place finishes as well. He plays all players at least three snaps a game in VARSITY contests, so I think it can be done, and should be done, at the JV level too. I've primarily been a JV coach during my brief career and have never felt that playing all kids has cost us any wins.
The main point of this guy's speech was that if you count special teams, there are 77 positions on a football team. I don't think he counted field goal block as that is most likely just the defense. If you can't coach a kid to be successful at one of 77 positions, you aren't doing a very good job as a coach! Now, obviously it's a bit easier to do this philosophy at small school with less players, but his program is one of the few in my area that isn't facing a numbers problem right now either.
|
|
|
|
Post by formrbcbuc on Apr 2, 2010 10:03:27 GMT -6
Our JV philosophy this year was that we would concentrate on preparing our guys for the varsity while giving everyone a chance to play. We were very honest to our players about playing time, but we found creative ways to use them. Backups would be salted into special teams. We were lucky in that we had a great season (6-2) and were up big in the 4th most of the year which allowed us to play most everyone at least 5 minutes. only had one hick up this season with this system so I feel it's best idea JV stands for "Just below Varsity". Most kids understand if you are honest and give them game time for their hard work when it is feasible.
|
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Apr 2, 2010 10:14:23 GMT -6
ou812.....great plan. I think that the issue with some JV, no matter the sport is that coaches lose sight of what the JV is supposed to be, a way to support the ENTIRE program by preparing players for the next level.
One of the best things from a coach I ever heard was that the only person who should be concerned about winning should be the varsity coach. I didn't take this to mean it's ok to lose at the lower level, it just shouldn't be the priority.
I can point to one kid in particular who sums up what is wrong with the "we have to win" mentality. This kid was not the fastest, quickest or biggest d-lineman in JR high, but no matter what he always seemed to be the one making plays. The JR high coach at the time based his decisions not on who were the play makers, but on who he thought was a "football player". As his playing time decreased, he opted not to play 8th grade and turned to soccer. Now as a sophomore, he is a pretty decent soccer player, and has physically matured to more fit the mold of a football player, but has no desire to go back. We are a small school so here is a kid that absolutely would help the program.
Coach 'em up at the lower levels, be competitive and build numbers for the Varsity level. That is what the JV should be in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 2, 2010 10:21:59 GMT -6
I think one thing that affects who plays-how much at JV level is when games are.
Some places JV games are Saturdays or Mondays after Varsity, so kids who didn't play Friday can participate in JV contests.
In Michigan most JV teams, which are comprised primarily of sophomores, play Thursday nights so we don't have that choice. A kid can play in only one game a week.
We will bring a sophomore up to Varsity if he is good enough to start. Conversely, we have put some juniors down on JVs to get experience.
|
|
trojan
Junior Member
[F4:wingtcoach.com] [F4:wingtcoachdon]
Posts: 494
|
Post by trojan on Apr 2, 2010 15:36:19 GMT -6
Your philosophy also depends on what level YOU coach. As a varsity coach, it seems more likely that you want every kid to develop so that you can pick the best and form a championship team.
As a junior high/freshman/JV coach, you have to understand your role. Prep all of those kids. Still, would it be nice to spend months with the same kids and win? Yes. It might be tough for a competitive man to lose all the time and feel good about what he does, even assuming he was preforming the role of "master developer."
My coaches and I don't prepare kids in games, we develop them in practice. In indies, EVERYONE gets the same number of reps and the same instruction, and we work hard to maximize the number of reps. If it is the third game of the season and you don't know your job, it becomes a challenge for us to get you into the game. That isn't related to being a superstar, it depends on some proof that you have taken six weeks (or more) of instruction and development and done something with it yourself.
Again, your level of coaching affects your philosophy (in my opinion).
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2010 15:41:03 GMT -6
blb--great point. Another important point in this discussion is the definition of JV. Some places have two teams, Varsity and JV. Some have Frosh, Soph, JV, and Varsity. Some just have Frosh, JV and Varsity. Those all factor into decisions.
|
|
smu92
Junior Member
Posts: 415
|
Post by smu92 on Apr 2, 2010 16:33:09 GMT -6
Our Philosophy:
Every kid plays in every game whether it be 7th (A/B), 8th (A/B), 9th (A/B), or JV (A/B). Kids want to play. Every kids works hard during the week, and they deserve a chance to get in the game. They may not play a ton of snaps, but every kid will get in. If you are worried about losing the game because of getting certain kids into the game, get them in during the 1st half. A lot of people make the mistake of waiting until the 4th quarter when the game is really on the line. If you wait too late, and it's a close ballgame, there's a good chance that you'll be reluctant to put them in. Desire to win may win out when it shouldn't. Put them in early, and they'll feel better about it (so will you). We tell all of our lower-level coaches that their #1 job is to teach fundamentals and get kids some playing time. No middle school, freshman, or JV coach will get fired for losing ballgames (not in Texas). They will get fired for not being organized, not preparing their kids to play, not running our (varsity) schemes/using our terminology, or not getting the kids into the games. We have a true feeder system. Our varsity head coach is in charge of the staff from 7th grade through Varsity.
Once our kids make it to the varsity level, there is NO guarantee on playing time. We are completely honest with our kids about their role, and that role may not have anything to do with getting in the game on Friday nights. Our varsity has to win, or every coach in our program (7th-Varsity) will be looking for a new job.
My 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Apr 2, 2010 18:39:52 GMT -6
JV = varsity prep. No more 5th quarter, no more everyone gets in, but still focused on skill development and learning the system. Wins and losses aren't as important as doing it right. Ditto All our kids are going to play JV as we want them to develop. Yet it is not freshman ball either. |
|
|
|
Post by coachplaa on Apr 4, 2010 20:55:36 GMT -6
Here is ours:
Every Frosh and Soph say at the end of the season:
1) I had fun playing football this year.
2) I want to play football again next year.
Even if they have the best coaching in the world and go undefeated....if they end up hating football, it does the Varsity no good the following year.
|
|
smu92
Junior Member
Posts: 415
|
Post by smu92 on Apr 4, 2010 20:57:30 GMT -6
Here is ours: Every Frosh and Soph say at the end of the season: 1) I had fun playing football this year. 2) I want to play football again next year. Simple. I like it. |
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Apr 4, 2010 21:19:43 GMT -6
Here is ours: Every Frosh and Soph say at the end of the season: 1) I had fun playing football this year. 2) I want to play football again next year. Even if they have the best coaching in the world and go undefeated....if they end up hating football, it does the Varsity no good the following year. Frosh... yeah... JV? Not so much... There comes a time in everyman's life when they have to make a decision. And that decision is... is football my sport. JV is the time where the rubber hits the road... IMHO. I will do my best, as a coach, to provide opportunities for players to earn the right to step on the field. However, if they can't meet said criteria... I will not simply give it to them. Its doing them a disservice, as well as their teammates. The game is supposed to be the motivation to do the tough things in PRACTICE. For those of you stating, players won't have fun, simply practicing... then I say, they aren't football players... It burns my goat to hear players talk about the game days, as if they don't wear pads, use a football, block and tackle, 4 days a week prior to the game. If you aren't having fun in practice... which is still football last I looked... then you just may not be a football player, and it maybe time to move on to soccer... And before you say, what if he grows, blah, blah, blah... it doesn't matter, his mentality for the game wasn't right. We all know there are 4 ft nothings... that play the game as big as most big men... its because they have a passion for it... and when they grow into their men bodies, they become serious problems for opponents. In short, its not my responsibilty to make the greatest game fun for a bunch of kids... its fun... if you can't see it, it just may not be the game for you. Its a tough game... its a disciplined game... as much as I want every kid to play... every kid does not have the make up for it. Its a special game, played by special men... And once we get to the JV level... you have to earn the right. And that doesn't mean you have to be a heisman candidate... it means you have meet the necessary criteria to get on the field... and if not, have the desire and commitment to stay at it, until you earn the right. |
|
|
|
Post by coachsky on Apr 4, 2010 21:25:34 GMT -6
Here is our priority:
1. Develop the 12 to 15 Sophs and Jrs that will help us next year.
2. Win - because kids want to win. It's fun. We at least want to win the first half.
3. Reward effort with playing time. Second half - we get a lot of kids playing time.
We have been fortunate to be pretty strong at the Varsity level the past few years so we have been able to get a lot of kids varsity time in the second half. We have been able to go two and three deep a lot of weeks. This allows us to play everyone in JV. We can bring 35-40 kids to a JV game.
|
|
