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Post by darebelcoach on Mar 25, 2010 14:57:57 GMT -6
Guys,
Not sure how it is for other states as far as qualifying for the playoffs but where I am at, you have to get to a certain amount of wins in order to make it (6 is automatic and 5 will usually get you in depending on playoff points).
A new by-law is being proposed for the 2011 season in which everyone will qualify for the playoffs (much like all the other high school sports i.e basketball, soccer, baseball, etc). You will play an 8 week season and week 9 will be a first round playoff game (currently we play 9 weeks of regular season and then playoffs). Not 100% sure of all the stipulations but from what I hear from my A.D., all teams will make it whether you are 0-9 or 9-0. As a head coach, I am not sure how I feel about this, which is why I posted this thread. In my four years as a head coach, we have yet to make the playoffs, we have been 5 - 4 three times but did not have enough playoff points so we just missed out, so obviously it would be nice to make the playoffs, but I also like the fact that we are the one sport in the state that has to qualify and earn the right to play in the postseason...so I am torn and looking for insight and feedback from you guys..
Is this something that happens in your state, if so, do you agree?
Do you think it is better having to earn the right to play in the postseason?
Any thoughts are much appreciated
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Post by coachks on Mar 25, 2010 15:31:00 GMT -6
Is this Michigan? I wonder if it has any steam.
If it is, I'm going to Ohio to coach.
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moon
Junior Member
Posts: 324
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Post by moon on Mar 25, 2010 15:38:37 GMT -6
This does not happen in our state and I don't care for the idea. I think you should have to earn the right to play in the post season.
My first year coaching our team made it into the post season with I believe 3 wins. The head coach at the time was also new (as well as cocky) and told reporters that people should expect to see our team in the playoffs as long as he was here. To me it was total croc. Our team didn't deserve it and it showed when we got bounced by a way better team in the first round. The following two years our team went 2-18 and he was run out of town.
Our league now takes the top three teams to playoffs which is the way I think it should be. You gotta earn the right to play in the postseason.
Moon
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Post by Juliath on Mar 25, 2010 15:57:48 GMT -6
This is the "everybody wins" attitude from youth soccer all grown-up.
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Post by darebelcoach on Mar 25, 2010 16:41:40 GMT -6
Not Michigan...actually I coach in Illinois....I agree with all of you...I feel you should earn it..it makes it more worth while when you can get into the playoffs and say you got there because of the product you put out onto the field....I told my A.D. I wasn't a big fan of the idea, so we will see how he (administration) votes when the time comes.....if my team only wins 2 or 3 games, my team doesn't deserve to play in the post-season....if my team wins 5, 6 or 7 games, we deserve to be there.......one of my good friend's who is one of my assistant coaches played h.s. ball in Indiana...and one year his team went 0-8 and there chant at the end of the season was "0-8, going to state" I don't want that to be OK or to be a rally cry
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Post by realdawg on Mar 25, 2010 16:53:08 GMT -6
In NC nearly everyone makes the playoffs, especially in the smallest divison (1a). What happened is about 6 or 7 yrs ago, the state subdivided the playoffs (1a, 1aa, 2a, 2aa, etc...) This doubled the amount of playoff games. Since a cut of each playoff game gate goes to the state it doubled the amount of money the state brings in. For that reason it will never change. However, under this format a 4-7 or 3-8 team qualifies regularly. Have even seen a 2-9 and this past year a 1-10 team qualify. We went to this because 8-2 teams were getting left out under the old system.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 25, 2010 17:05:51 GMT -6
Gay.
So glad I coach in a state that hasn't bought in to this type of thinking. If your not above .500 you don't belong in the playoffs.
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Post by darebelcoach on Mar 25, 2010 17:55:39 GMT -6
WingT.....can you come speak to my A.D.? HAHA....I agree with you...if you don't have a winning record, you don't belong...not everyone deserves a "ribbon" at the end of the season....if you don't make it, work harder...I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 as a head coach, and I have only been a part of 1 team making it to the playoffs....so yes, I want to taste the playoffs as a head coach, but I want my team to earn it, not have it given to them....
Our girls basketball team last year was 1 - 23 in the regualr season... made the regionals because every team does, one their first game against another crappy school in the "play-in game" and won the next game against a team that had 3 starters out sick, thus won the regional championship.....they had 3 wins on the year and have a trophy in the case......disgusting!!!
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blue22
Freshmen Member
Posts: 62
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Post by blue22 on Mar 25, 2010 18:12:13 GMT -6
I'm with you wingtol. So glad pa hasn't bought into it they have watered it down from the way it used to be. But i wouldn't want it any different either with adding another classification or letting everyone in. Then people wander way the kids of today have no work ethic. By letting every team in you teach kids nothing. Playoffs are special it takes alot of work and talent to compete in the playoffs. If every team is in the same good teams that would be in anyway on record are still gonna rise to the top. In some of the districts there are only a few teams in a classification so they all end up in regardless of record and they get there a$$ handed to them by the one good team. And i applaud the coaches who opt out when they are 0-10. The kids are sick of losing at that point so why put them through an embarrassing loss at the hands of a 10-0 team. Your 0-10 for a reason. But heavens forbid we deny some parent the chance to see there "star" in the playoffs. This is a big old "COME ON MAN". I was coaching at a school that went 7-3 and all we got was thanks for playing this year. NO Playoffs we didn't earn it by winning enough games. Nobody today wants to earn anything they just want it bc its cool to tell someone we 're in the playoffs. I'll stop ranting this subject fires me up to no end.
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Post by darebelcoach on Mar 25, 2010 19:00:30 GMT -6
I can't wait to show this to my AD...he thought I was nuts earlier in the day when I told him I didn't like the idea...he said I was probably in the minority of coaches that thought it wasn't a good idea....he is also the head basketball coach....lol
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 25, 2010 19:11:02 GMT -6
In NC nearly everyone makes the playoffs, especially in the smallest divison (1a). What happened is about 6 or 7 yrs ago, the state subdivided the playoffs (1a, 1aa, 2a, 2aa, etc...) This doubled the amount of playoff games. Since a cut of each playoff game gate goes to the state it doubled the amount of money the state brings in. For that reason it will never change. However, under this format a 4-7 or 3-8 team qualifies regularly. Have even seen a 2-9 and this past year a 1-10 team qualify. We went to this because 8-2 teams were getting left out under the old system. Louisiana did something similar about 18 years ago. They expanded from 4 football classifications to 5. The change resulted in classes of 55-60 teams rather than 70-80 teams. With 5 rounds of games, now the top 32 out of 55-60 teams make the playoffs rather than 32 out of top 70 or 80, diluting many of the games. So that's approximately the top 55% instead of the top 40% or so. First round playoff games are often one sided affairs. |
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Post by k on Mar 25, 2010 19:50:37 GMT -6
Every year one or two 8-2 teams get in and a few 9-1 teams get left out.
Three losses and you're almost surely not going to the playoffs (although it has happened one or two times in the last thirty years).
Soccer and Basketball teams make it as long as they go .400 on the year.
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 25, 2010 20:50:13 GMT -6
Why have playoffs -- or at least so many playoffs -- instead of just expanding the regular season? If you're going to have an elimination tournament to determine a champion of the state, it should have as few entries as needed to give a chance to every team that has shown itself better than all their regular season competitors. I.e., be the champ of your circuit first, then think about being champs of a bigger world. I don't see why you need to take #2 or anyone lower in any playoffs, considering they've already proven themselves to be not as "good" as #1.
Everyone else can play post-season games outside the playoff structure if they want more football. I'm sure they could arrange much better competition than they'd get in playoffs anyway.
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basher
Freshmen Member
Posts: 33
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Post by basher on Mar 25, 2010 21:41:32 GMT -6
This is what Oregon is going to also starting for the 2010 season. www.osaa.org/governance/committees/statechampionship/111minutes.pdfI don't like it at all. In the 6A class, the last week of the regular season would feature the non-automatic qualifiers playing what athletic directors expect to be more lucrative play-in games to fill a 32 team playoff bracket. This model is similar to the play-in, at site games already played before the bracket is pruned down to the tournament site for volleyball and basketball. The difference is the OSAA won’t pay expenses for these games; hence the belief and hope that the games would in fact be more lucrative, and the leagues would manage the revenue to their benefit. A similar concept would apply to the smaller 5A class, and the currently same sized 4A class, with several major differences. In these classes, there would be two play-in rounds, only 16 teams would go on to a four round playoff, vs. the current five, and it would apply to football as well. For basketball, softball, volleyball, and baseball, where two games can easily be played in a week, this could work well, without curtailing the number of games scheduled. Football, however, is another matter. For the play-in teams, they could play one fewer game, or the same number, in the ten weeks that now comprise the regular season, though the season would be shortened. Notably, the automatic qualifiers would lose two games. With some schools strangely showing a desire to not play in the first week of the season, preferring partial scrimmages labeled as jamborees, it could mean only seven regular season games, not nine or ten. Further, the automatic qualifiers (27 of 37 5A schools and 21 of 43 4A schools), would all have a bye, before the playoffs begin for them. This seems to be financially difficult to pencil out for the schools, as football proceeds pay the bills. It does pencil out for the OSAA, who effectively cuts out a round of playoffs which they pay expenses for. That doesn’t make it a good idea for schools, large or small though. The shortening of the season could have an adverse impact on the OSAA Endowment Fund, by making the scheduling of Endowment Games problematic. With the loss of one or two football gates, and the related concessions, the willingness of schools, at least the ones being run fiscally responsible, to hand over another gate might well be diminished. The impact on preparation of players for the next level (some of whom are going to that next level, or could at least be capable of doing so) has not received much public discussion. Any reduction in contests can only be a big disadvantage, especially in football. |
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Post by wingtol on Mar 26, 2010 6:53:16 GMT -6
I think another problem is some of your states have to many classes, so when the playoffs roll around and there are only 40 teams in a class everyone has to make it. We have around 160-170 teams in our class so it's never gonna happen where everyone makes the playoffs. I knid of chuckle when I see these states that have like 8 classes with a dozen teams in each class.
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Post by coachgup on Mar 26, 2010 8:07:07 GMT -6
We let everyone in a couple years ago. One team in the first round loaded with talent and wound up playing in the state playoffs, the other team a bottom dweller struggling to maintain a program. Final was like 78-7 or something in that neighborhood. The winning coach took a lot of heat for "running up the score" when in reality he was running 2 or 3 plays form the 2nd quarter on and the losing team just refused to try to make any plays. I would not want to see this become the normal process.
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Post by dubber on Mar 26, 2010 8:28:24 GMT -6
In Indiana, EVERYONE makes the playoffs......we have 5 classifacations, and about 320 some odd teams.
9-game season, plus 6 more games if you make state.
I would like to see a playoff format. But, having everyone make it generates a TON of revenue for schools.
I don't think it's a soccer mom thing-----it's an economic thing.
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Post by struceri on Mar 26, 2010 10:17:41 GMT -6
In South Dakota our big school class has only 17 teams in it and as of now 16 make the playoffs. One of those 17 schools plays a schedule of teams from the next lowest class and doesn't play any of the 16 "large schools" during the regular season but can make our playoffs if they are in the top 16 for power points. We played them the 1st round this year and it was 45-0 6 minutes into the game. The year b4 we beat a team 60-0 in the 1st round. I hope our state makes a change that cuts the playoff field down. I always thought playoffs were a reward for a good season but apparently that is not the case anymore.
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cls
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by cls on Mar 26, 2010 10:52:12 GMT -6
Socialism plain and simple...
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Post by John Knight on Mar 26, 2010 10:57:56 GMT -6
Some states have(TX and KY, correct me if I am wrong) Districts. The games the teams play during the season count toward the playoffs. I like that idea. In Ohio we use the Harbin system to qualify for the playoffs where 8 teams make it in from each 32 team region. That is 25% of the teams. A good number but the wins are not always against like opponents. I would love to see your schedule set up to play 7 of your 10 games against teams in your own region and then the won loss record would reflect your ability to play or not play in the playoffs.
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Post by superpower on Mar 26, 2010 11:23:30 GMT -6
In Kansas the last 3 weeks of the regular season are DISTRICT games, and those 3 games are the only ones that matter as far as playoff qualification. There are 64 teams in our classification (3A), and 32 of them will qualify for the playoffs by finishing in the top 2 of their 4-team district. Teams that win their district host a district runner-up (from a neighboring district) in the first round of the playoffs.
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 26, 2010 11:25:09 GMT -6
In 2008 there was a team from another league nearby that made the playoffs with a 3-7 record. I'm not kidding. Luckily, the rules were changed for 09 to eliminate that garbage.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 26, 2010 11:29:16 GMT -6
That can happen in Ohio any year. The Harbin System works that way. It is very common for a 6-4 team to make the playoffs and a 8-2 team to not in certain regions. For instance in this region a 5-5 team made the playoffs and a 9-1 team didn't. www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/2007region_12.html |
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Post by airman on Mar 26, 2010 13:23:31 GMT -6
I believe this is the doings of the WIAA Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association.
I grew up in wisconsin and I heard they were going to this. when I was in high school we had a 10 game season and then the playoff where were the 48 conference champions and the they doubled it to the conference champion and runner up making the playoffs.
the WIAA was talking about doing this way back in the early 1980s. To tell you how backwards the WIAA is, if your team goes to state and your local news paper wants to send a photographer to the state championship to take pics for the paper, the photographer will be banned or arrested. the WIAA claims rights to all the images of respective championship games. now for a fee they will sell them to you.
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Post by coachguy83 on Mar 26, 2010 17:28:46 GMT -6
I coach in Illinois and I'm not a fan of this plan at all. I already don't like the fact that we have 8 classes for football, which as far as I know if more than any other state. I realize in some confrences a 4-5 or 3-6 team can be a really good team playing tought competiton, but an 0-9 team hasn't a prayer. We are justing going to see winless teams playing undefeated teams in the first round and losing by seventy or eighty points.
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Post by kcbazooka on Mar 26, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -6
Missouri is similar to Kansas - only the eighth, ninth, and tenth games count to make the playoffs - All but one of the classes has districts of four teams and two teams make it out of every dsitrict. Like some of the others - technically you could finish1-9 and if you won the tiebreaker in your district you would be the #2 district team. I haven't seen that happen but I have seen some 2-8 teams make it. At the other end I have seen some 8-2 teams not go and I suppose its possible that a 9-1 team could get bumped....
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Post by robinhood on Mar 26, 2010 18:33:55 GMT -6
Indiana doesn't have a playoff. We have for football, just like all the other sports, a tournament.
It has been this way since the late-80s. There are those in the state who believe teams should earn their way in, but many of them weren't around when Indiana had a playoff system. During that time one team won 31 CONSECUTIVE games over a three year period and didn't make the playoffs because they weren't in a conference and schools their size or larger wouldn't play them. Having a winning record was no guarantee of a playoff appearance.
It works for Indiana, and our caliber of football is improving. All teams get extra practices each season. Over a three year period, that equals about 15 or more additional practices.
AND IT MAKES BASKETBALL WAIT AT LEAST ANOTHER WEEK.
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 26, 2010 18:38:16 GMT -6
In Indiana, EVERYONE makes the playoffs......we have 5 classifacations, and about 320 some odd teams. 9-game season, plus 6 more games if you make state. I would like to see a playoff format. But, having everyone make it generates a TON of revenue for schools. I don't think it's a soccer mom thing-----it's an economic thing. Couldn't they make more money if they just played games they arranged against opponents their equal? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 26, 2010 19:34:11 GMT -6
wow..reading all of these here makes me realize that this is one of the few things in which Louisiana ISN'T a$$-backwards. (could use some improvements though..just my opinion)
We have 5 classifications divided by enrollment. Each of those classes is broken up into 9-10 districts based on geography (a few too many in my opinion, because many districts only have 4 or 5 teams).
Playoffs are determined through a power point formula system, ( 10pts for each win + 1 point for each opponents win+ a playing up bonus for playing non conference games against teams in higher classifications) with all district champions automatically getting into the playoffs regardless of power points. The rest of the field is comprised of the top power point earners until the 32 team bracket is full. Then they are seeded based on those power points (which I disagree with because you can manipulate your seed based on the math formula)
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Post by Defcord on Mar 26, 2010 19:49:01 GMT -6
In Indiana everyone is in. It's good in our state because:
We have few enough teams to accomodate it.
We do not play in conferences with same size of schools. This year Bishop Luers won state in 2A second smallest. Their regular season record was 4-5, but they play in one of the toughest conferences in the state. Other teams have won state with 3-6 records because they played in tough conferences. Luers plays 3 5A schools, 3 4A schools, and 3 3A schools in conference.
In order to go a playoff system they should adjust it so teams play in conference with similar size schools in conference.
-The major negative about our everyone in system is that it is not seeded. It has random draws for opponents and for site location. (This is ridiculous)!!!
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