|
Post by airman on Mar 9, 2010 14:42:23 GMT -6
airman, i choose die. simple enough? hell let's just play 7 on 7 all the time and call it football...oh wait because that will lead to collisions that could involve injury the wussification of America is happening, isn't it time as males that we decide to take our nation back? This is a joke...I have coached for 15 years and played for at least 17 more...in 32 years of playing/coaching experience I have not seen 1 concussion in an offensive or defensive lineman due to collisions from a 3 point stance. The 4 concussions I have seen in 32 years have all occurred in space helmet to helmet or due to helmet to ground contact (while being tackled). What's next will we make this great game "thud" and penalize people for tackling to the ground? Better yet make it flag football? could some please tell me what the wussification of America is? I am a bit confused when people make this remark.
|
|
|
Post by airtrafficcontrol on Mar 9, 2010 14:51:15 GMT -6
It's john t reed on board not jack reed!jack reed is a first class guy.
|
|
kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by kahok on Mar 9, 2010 14:58:15 GMT -6
Am I the only one amused that the video clip is set to "Bodies hit the floor"? Ironic much?
|
|
|
Post by k on Mar 9, 2010 16:08:53 GMT -6
I played line on both sides of the ball and coach both sides of the line. To anyone who says "I've never seen an OL/DL get a concussion" I gotta say you're blind AT BEST.
That said I'm not sure it would reduce them by any significant statistical margin to get rid of line play.
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Mar 9, 2010 16:15:15 GMT -6
I think that if the NFL were to change its rules, that's one thing. But in no way should it affect our level or even the college level, simply because the careers cannot be long enough, in my opinion, to do much of the 'punch drunk' type damage that everyone is freaking out about.
I don't think KB's offense is the next step in football, I think it's exploitive and a cheap/inexpensive (in terms of time and coaching discipline) way out of doing real work. It all started because Piedmont allegedly had lineman that were too small to hack it. Well, sounds like someone needs to get their kids to be more dedicated to the weight room. Heck, Coach Lad started out with similar athletes (way, way back in the day) who were small, unathletic, but smart. So, he created a culture of hard work and execution that has spawned one of the most amazing programs in history. But KB is definitely no Coach Lad (few of us are) and so we get this drivel.
|
|
|
Post by lochness on Mar 9, 2010 16:40:26 GMT -6
I dont care who is saying this More space=more concussions Less space=less concussions Linemen vs Linemen in 3 points arent causing concussions If you do a scientific study, poll 10,000 coaches on the matter, 98% of them are going to tell you the same A11= more space More space= more concussions the A11 will cause more concussions not fewer the nfl and people who study concussion do not see it this way. if you read the time article it was all lineman and lbers who were receiving the concussions from the small hits which they sustained on each play. much like boxers who get punch drunk. it is why the nfl is considering removing the 3 pt stance from football. the game of football is changing like it or not. it is change or die That's a wet sack of dog $hit and you know it. So, eating red meat causes us to die. Are they going to outlaw that? Tobacco causes people to die. Are they going to outlaw that? Driving over the speed limit causes people death and serious injury. Are they going to build cars that can't be driven over the limits? It's foolishness. People have the freedom to make the decision to play football. They understand the risks. You want to put "limits" and "regulations" on the game...how about certifying every coach in safe tackling and blocking fundamentals and techniques? How about holding coaches responsible for checking and maintaining the use of helmets and mouthguards properly?
|
|
|
Post by mdpride on Mar 9, 2010 17:05:45 GMT -6
Guys I want to weigh in.
I was an Athletic Training Major in college, D1 ball player, now a young HC.
I agree this is total BS! If they turn football into 7 vs 7 football loses everything that makes it SPECIAL!
|
|
kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by kahok on Mar 9, 2010 17:16:53 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ? OR.... is it the unadulterated {censored}-ING that has gone on with this offense and the two creators since day one of its inception. Maybe it offends some coaches, that this dopey gimmicky offense was pretty much started as a product. Going to the A11 website is like going to a giant advertisement, an advertisement for crap. To pretend that this gimmick prevents injuries is ludicrous. We have had ONE major injury in three years at my school and that was a freshman QB dislocating his elbow when he got hit trying to pick up a bad shotgun snap. Injuries are luck of the draw, the whole article is poppycock at best, and irresponisble journalism at worst. But what else would you guys expect from the creators of the A11? This is how they've been promoting themselves since day one.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Mar 9, 2010 17:37:20 GMT -6
Let's keep in mind that the A11 doesn't exist anymore. The defining characteristic of the A11 (All 11) was that all eleven offensive players were potentially eligible receivers based on a loophole in the scrimmage-kick exemption in Federation rules. That exemption has been closed. What is reffered to as the A11 now is simply an expanded formation that anybody could run and had been run by many teams before anybody ever heard of the A11.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Mar 9, 2010 17:51:27 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ? I coach at a small school! We haven't had a major injury in 5 years! We run the wing-t! Buy my system for 250.00 and you can be injury free as well!!!!!!!! I think that is the tipping point.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 9, 2010 19:09:35 GMT -6
Let's keep in mind that the A11 doesn't exist anymore. The defining characteristic of the A11 (All 11) was that all eleven offensive players were potentially eligible receivers based on a loophole in the scrimmage-kick exemption in Federation rules. That exemption has been closed. What is reffered to as the A11 now is simply an expanded formation that anybody could run and had been run by many teams before anybody ever heard of the A11. That very fact is what bothers me the most about the two men (won't use the word coaches anymore). The fact that they still stick to that BRAND speaks volumes to their true intentions--be it $$$ or simply notoriety.
|
|
coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
|
Post by coachriley on Mar 9, 2010 19:31:41 GMT -6
Morally irresponsible sums it up best, I think. It's akin to Taco Bell advertising its "Fresco" items as part of a weight loss solution. Sh!t, its not?! dammit, there goes my plan lol.
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Mar 9, 2010 19:44:52 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Mar 9, 2010 19:54:02 GMT -6
That very fact is what bothers me the most about the two men (won't use the word coaches anymore). The fact that they still stick to that BRAND speaks volumes to their true intentions--be it $$$ or simply notoriety. I agree. Stevy and Kurty are a shade over .500 with the a-11 and I don't think they have won a playoff game. Maybe if they spent a little more time in the film room rather than on new marketing gimmicks, they would be a little more successful in regards to winning.
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Mar 9, 2010 21:15:07 GMT -6
I don't know where to begin. So I won't. If people are worried about concussions go play soccer......oh wait a British study found that was dangerous too. I agree with the point about coach Lad. Create a culture of hard work instead of a gimmick. Gimmicks make me sick. The Shamwow is a gimmick. Those guys are no better than I would love to talk more but I am on my way to a clinic now.
|
|
lgoody
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by lgoody on Mar 9, 2010 23:11:39 GMT -6
I understand the main points of the discussion, but lets try and clear up something.
The issues with concussions aren't necessarily that they occur in space during huge hits. Numerous small "dings" can make someone more susceptible to a concussion, and are the "concussions" we ignore as "minor". The small dingers that occur on a play by play basis are the ones that eventually take the biggest toll, because they're ignored, or at the least seen as minor.
Whether or not a "concussion" has taken a place is also an issue of semantics. We can all remember times when we played when we were involved in a collision, and we didn't know where the hell we were for a play or two. Is that a "concussion"? Or is that just a minor blow to the brain that doesn't matter as much as other blows to the brain? How about the blows that left you completely disoriented for a few seconds? Is that something that can be ignored as harmless?
Collisions between lineman don't offer the big "where are we" concussions, but they certainly offer up a bit of a cloudy puzzle that could have long term repercussions. I'm not necessarily advocating a rule change, but the reality of the situation is that the continuous head to head collision by offensive and defensive lineman isn't as innocuous as some here believe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2010 5:37:42 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ? I love the fact that one serious injury will shut the A11 guys up until they come up with another sales pitch
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Mar 10, 2010 6:29:14 GMT -6
I dont care who is saying this More space=more concussions Less space=less concussions Linemen vs Linemen in 3 points arent causing concussions If you do a scientific study, poll 10,000 coaches on the matter, 98% of them are going to tell you the same A11= more space More space= more concussions the A11 will cause more concussions not fewer the nfl and people who study concussion do not see it this way. if you read the time article it was all lineman and lbers who were receiving the concussions from the small hits which they sustained on each play. much like boxers who get punch drunk. it is why the nfl is considering removing the 3 pt stance from football. the game of football is changing like it or not. it is change or die I realize there is a minority within the football community that like to throw the ball every down and there is a tiny sliver within that group that would like to change the game into something else, an entirely different sport altogether minus the physicality, minus a serious running game etc There is already 7 on 7 touch, why not just take that and make it your "sport" of choice and leave football as it was meant to be played for everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by lilbuck1103 on Mar 10, 2010 6:39:00 GMT -6
When you sell a gimmick you lose credibility. I would not call these guys coaches. They are salesmen plain and simple. To call them coaches is to offend everyone who works extremely hard to develop young men on and off the field. To produce a gimmick and sell it, using young men as your platform is flat out wrong and disappointing. These guys are not coaches.
|
|
|
Post by mitch on Mar 10, 2010 8:10:12 GMT -6
Who the hell is this Reed guy, and why should we care what he says?
|
|
kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by kahok on Mar 10, 2010 9:03:32 GMT -6
Who the hell is this Reed guy, and why should we care what he says? Why, he wrote a book on clock management of course!!!
|
|
|
Post by coachcompton on Mar 10, 2010 14:14:19 GMT -6
I'm pretty sick of the concussion issue. Football is a collision sport. It is a violent game. Nothing is going to make it a totally safe game...not even going to two hand touch because you can tear an ACL with no contact. You can get hit in the head with an elbow. Or get knocked out Stuart Scott style with a pass to the head.
Of course there are some things that need to happen to make the sport safer for athletes. Holding players out with head injuries the rest of the game (and even possibly the next week) is an appropriate measure. Penalizing head shots is appropriate. Mandating safer helmets is awesome. Having better communication between doctors, trainers, coaches, players, and parents is a great move. (All of these would go A HELL of a lot further than banning the three point stance or switching to the A-11...because the majority of the mental health problems aren't single incidents, they come from prolonged head to head contact; and playing without having properly recovered from that contact. So coaches, trainers, and MOST importantly players need to communicate and know the information on the risk associated with concussions)
Banning the three point stance, advocating the A-11 as a "safe-offense" and changing crucial elements of how the game is played IS not appropriate for the longevity of the sport. That would be like basketball saying that body contact increases injuries and that by making any body contact a foul their sport would be much safer for athletes. When you change the structure of the game to make it safe it is no longer the same sport.
Even saying "this is a safe way to do it" is an absolutely ludicrous statement because football is a violent game. Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and makes athletes play football. Nobody tells these guys you have to bang your head in the trenches for 15 years. People have to take responsibilities for their own actions. Thats the problem with this country, nobody takes responsibility for their own choices anymore and when things go wrong they want to point the finger at someone else and blame them for their problems. Then b*tch and complain that something must be done so people don't have to make those choices and take responsibility for those choices.
Football players know the risk when they put on a helmet, just like NASCAR drivers know the risk when they step foot in their cars. There is a possibility of serious injury or death no matter what safety measures you implement. If you want to be 100% safe, don't want concussions or put your health at risk then don't play the game. But if you love the game, love the money you get from playing, you decide to bang your head around for 20 years of your life ignoring doctors advice; don't come crying before the NFL, the senate, and the entire football community that football is responsible for your health problems. The athlete had a choice to continue playing the game; and everyone knows the risks involved.
We should strive to make the sport safer, but it will never be safe. So why sacrifice the integrity of the sport for a couple of percentage ticks better when it comes to statistics? People are still going to choose to play the game too long, collisions are going to happen, and concussions aren't going away. People are still going to make their own choices when it comes to their health. Why change the game dramatically to make a game that is say 75% concussion safe to make it 77% concussion safe? It makes absolutely no sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Mar 10, 2010 14:20:50 GMT -6
Brilliant post, coachcompton. Right on!
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Mar 10, 2010 14:48:07 GMT -6
I'm pretty sick of the concussion issue. Football is a collision sport. It is a violent game. Nothing is going to make it a totally safe game...not even going to two hand touch because you can tear an ACL with no contact. You can get hit in the head with an elbow. Or get knocked out Stuart Scott style with a pass to the head. Of course there are some things that need to happen to make the sport safer for athletes. Holding players out with head injuries the rest of the game (and even possibly the next week) is an appropriate measure. Penalizing head shots is appropriate. Mandating safer helmets is awesome. Having better communication between doctors, trainers, coaches, players, and parents is a great move. (All of these would go A HELL of a lot further than banning the three point stance or switching to the A-11...because the majority of the mental health problems aren't single incidents, they come from prolonged head to head contact; and playing without having properly recovered from that contact. So coaches, trainers, and MOST importantly players need to communicate and know the information on the risk associated with concussions) Banning the three point stance, advocating the A-11 as a "safe-offense" and changing crucial elements of how the game is played IS not appropriate for the longevity of the sport. That would be like basketball saying that body contact increases injuries and that by making any body contact a foul their sport would be much safer for athletes. When you change the structure of the game to make it safe it is no longer the same sport. Even saying "this is a safe way to do it" is an absolutely ludicrous statement because football is a violent game. Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and makes athletes play football. Nobody tells these guys you have to bang your head in the trenches for 15 years. People have to take responsibilities for their own actions. Thats the problem with this country, nobody takes responsibility for their own choices anymore and when things go wrong they want to point the finger at someone else and blame them for their problems. Then b*tch and complain that something must be done so people don't have to make those choices and take responsibility for those choices. Football players know the risk when they put on a helmet, just like NASCAR drivers know the risk when they step foot in their cars. There is a possibility of serious injury or death no matter what safety measures you implement. If you want to be 100% safe, don't want concussions or put your health at risk then don't play the game. But if you love the game, love the money you get from playing, you decide to bang your head around for 20 years of your life ignoring doctors advice; don't come crying before the NFL, the senate, and the entire football community that football is responsible for your health problems. The athlete had a choice to continue playing the game; and everyone knows the risks involved. We should strive to make the sport safer, but it will never be safe. So why sacrifice the integrity of the sport for a couple of percentage ticks better when it comes to statistics? People are still going to choose to play the game too long, collisions are going to happen, and concussions aren't going away. People are still going to make their own choices when it comes to their health. Why change the game dramatically to make a game that is say 75% concussion safe to make it 77% concussion safe? It makes absolutely no sense to me. You mean people should actually be responsible for the choices they make in life...please stop with the crazy talk!
|
|
|
Post by tog on Mar 10, 2010 15:13:32 GMT -6
i would love to chime in as well chuck but i am on my way to a clinic too
lol
classic
|
|
|
Post by airman on Mar 10, 2010 16:13:20 GMT -6
I find it interesting how people say stop the wussification of america and those who put up website. you teachers do know those who run these sites would love to abolish public schools, the nea and unions in public schools. my daddy always said be careful who you get in bed with. I suggest the same to you guys. Like it or not fells, the baseline concussion tests are going to be mandatory in the next few years and football is going to have to adapt.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Mar 10, 2010 16:27:33 GMT -6
the day football is over with is the day this country dies
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Mar 10, 2010 17:10:11 GMT -6
Like it or not fells, the baseline concussion tests are going to be mandatory in the next few years and football is going to have to adapt. Well, Kansas can't even fund education currently, so I don't know who is going to pay for the baseline concussion tests.
|
|
|
Post by airman on Mar 10, 2010 17:35:53 GMT -6
Like it or not fells, the baseline concussion tests are going to be mandatory in the next few years and football is going to have to adapt. Well, Kansas can't even fund education currently, so I don't know who is going to pay for the baseline concussion tests. this is why we are going to get all this FREE health care
|
|
|
Post by airman on Mar 10, 2010 17:38:16 GMT -6
the day football is over with is the day this country dies who says football is going to be over? it has been my experience that most football coaches who run the ball are very fatalistic when it comes to the forward pass. Heck, I could care less if you want to play phone booth football but do not tread on those of us who want to spread it out. divide and conquer
|
|