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Post by davecisar on Mar 9, 2010 6:45:32 GMT -6
The beloved A-11 is in the news again. Now the offense is being touted as the answer to stopping concussions. highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1060435Not sure I really understand the link The concussions we have had were all by LBs and DBs tackling in space or RB tackled in space. Jack Reed is on board with this now as well it seems from the article. IF this has already been posted my apologies. |
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Post by unc31 on Mar 9, 2010 7:05:39 GMT -6
Why don't they simply sanction a new sport? What they are talking about is not football. No linemen? How can that be fair to big kids? No 3 point stance? I concur with Dave, any concussions we have experienced have been in space rather than at the LOS. If they want to have a completely different sport, then fine. But to try to force the rest of the world to their own philosophy is pretty selfish and shortsighted. I have no problem with THEM doing their thing. I just don't want to be forced to do it with them. Then again, it is a lot of worry over nothing. If this were to ever be adopted as the norm it would be many, many years from now. Just don't see it happening.
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Post by superpower on Mar 9, 2010 7:06:43 GMT -6
The article is full of opinions. There are no facts to support that a particular offensive system is safer than any other. Further, it seems to suggest that everyone should run the A-11. How boring would that be?
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Post by gre3nday on Mar 9, 2010 7:15:37 GMT -6
Well A-11 sales must have dried up so they needed another marketing ploy!
It reeks of being very desperate however.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 9, 2010 7:21:15 GMT -6
Would this crap and these guys trying to make money off of the crap just go away?
I have yet, in 18 years of football, to see a linemen get a concussion by coming out of their stance and hitting another linemen. As stated earlier all concussions I have seen have been in space where kids have running starts to hit other kids.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 9, 2010 7:28:32 GMT -6
I would sure like to see a few well respected HS coaches from here get in touch with the writer and clue him in on the "in space" realities of football and head the nanny state soccer mom pleasing politicos from letting Kurt and Jack turn football into another sport. Maybe they could just turn the A-11 into a girls or coed intramural sport to give them an outlet  |
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Post by lochness on Mar 9, 2010 7:30:26 GMT -6
It's absolutely ridiculous to say that playing the game this way would reduce concussions. Concussions don't happen in closed quarters (ie: linemen vs. linemen or back vs. backer). Concussions happen primarily in the open field (special teams, DB vs. WR, SS vs. RB, etc.)
If you want to stop concussions, make it a 2-hand touch game. If you want to create another sport that's "kind of like football, except not" then run the A-11.
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Post by coachbiskits on Mar 9, 2010 7:51:38 GMT -6
The game they are describing is already around. It's called flag football. And we all know that no knee injuries is a luck of the draw issue. We had a kid blow out his ACL chasing a football rolling down a hill.
As far as the concussions go, studies have shown that the speed/size issue is not valid. There is more angular velocity, a major cause of the trauma that can lead to concussions, in HS vs college. This can be directly related to the LACK of strength and therefore poor technique of HS athletes. I had a chance to listen to Chris Nowinski (Chris Harvard to you WWE fans) at a clinic last week and his presentation is very informative. He talks about the damage of not just the big hit, but the cumulative damage of thousands of repeated blows over a career as a cause for some of the recent tragedies with former players. It made me think about ways to stress technique and decrease ( but not eliminate ) repetetive blows in practices. And as we all know, the rest period after a concussion cannot be messed with at all. Look him up if you get a chance.
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Post by Chris Clement on Mar 9, 2010 7:58:21 GMT -6
Linemen simply aren't moving fast enough at the line to generate a lot of concussions. Concussions mostly come from something hard (elbow, knee, helmet) hitting a player's helmet or the player's head striking the ground, but both require a fair bit of speed to accomplish, mostly found (as said above) in open field or especially special teams.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2010 8:26:10 GMT -6
It'll even wipe away years off the dull car finish!!...what a crock ...I've coached for 13 years at different levels and have only seen 2 serious injuries ( broken bones).
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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2010 8:52:16 GMT -6
I saw a lineman get a concussion coming out of a 3 point stance once, he got too high and whacked his head on the chute bar, knocked him out cold! He misses a couple of practices.
Our trainer is nuts when it comes to letting them back in practice. He makes kids with concussions pass a test I call Dizzy Bat (you ever seen that at baseball games?) and they all know he will fail them and hold them out of practice. I don't want kids hurt but this is ridiculous!
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 9, 2010 9:26:20 GMT -6
I would sure like to see a few well respected HS coaches from here get in touch with the writer and clue him in on the "in space" realities of football and head the nanny state soccer mom pleasing politicos from letting Kurt and Jack turn football into another sport. Maybe they could just turn the A-11 into a girls or coed intramural sport to give them an outlet I would do this, but I'm not well respected. |
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Post by spreadattack on Mar 9, 2010 9:27:28 GMT -6
What irritates me about this is that concussions are a serious issue and this is rather inappropriate to take off on it as a sales point. It will taint the whole discussion as "Real football" vs this rather than the real discussion, which is to make football safer.
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Post by knighter on Mar 9, 2010 9:37:46 GMT -6
This article is a crock.
I have been in coaching for 15 years, and have yet to have a "major" injury on any player from my team. At most 1 knee surgery, maybe 2 minor concussions, and the typical bumps and bruises that go along with playing a game that MEN and BOYS play (remember a rough and tumble man or boy)?
I also played this rough and tumble game (from the time I was like 6 in Pop Warner until I turned 23 and was done with college). I have no lingering effects. And that only counts the "organized" games, doesn't mention playing tackle football on the playground without pads in elementary school when we were not being watched closely, or the backyard neighborhood games we played every Saturday and Sunday, nor does it count the tackle games that broke out in the college quad.
A-11 can "make the game safer"? Huh? How about we start teaching coaches how to TEACH blocking and TACKLING safely and correctly? Remember back when a coach was synonymous with someone who likely was one of the best teachers in the building/community/town/etc?
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 9, 2010 10:08:15 GMT -6
Is anyone else p!ssed off at Reed's quote that implies that all football coaches force players to play with head injuries?
"I think the health benefits outweigh the criticisms of the offense," Reed said. "It is a moral outrage for football coaches to get kids to violate medical advices."
I've never had a problem with the A-11 per-say, if you want to build your program around a trick-play gimick thats your problem. what has always bothered me is the shyster car-salesman approach to the whole thing. Reed's quote takes that to new lows. This next season will be my 10 season coaching and I have NEVER seen a coach tell a player to go against medical advice/directions. In fact we've held kids out who say they're ready because they haven't been cleared by the doctor.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 9, 2010 10:12:00 GMT -6
ive never seen a lineman get a concussion... because they are so close they dont build up enough speed to create the big hit. OL/DL is like a grind over and over again
You see the BIG hits out in space...
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Post by phantom on Mar 9, 2010 10:34:04 GMT -6
Is anyone else p!ssed off at Reed's quote that implies that all football coaches force players to play with head injuries? "I think the health benefits outweigh the criticisms of the offense," Reed said. "It is a moral outrage for football coaches to get kids to violate medical advices."I've never had a problem with the A-11 per-say, if you want to build your program around a trick-play gimick thats your problem. what has always bothered me is the shyster car-salesman approach to the whole thing. Reed's quote takes that to new lows. This next season will be my 10 season coaching and I have NEVER seen a coach tell a player to go against medical advice/directions. In fact we've held kids out who say they're ready because they haven't been cleared by the doctor. I'd love to see a complete transcript of the interview to understand the context of this quote. As printed the quote seems to be such a non-sequitur that I suspect it to be two separate answers to two separate questions strung together to make one quote. |
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Post by davecisar on Mar 9, 2010 10:51:53 GMT -6
I dont have the entire quote, just the link to the article
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Post by phantom on Mar 9, 2010 10:55:33 GMT -6
I dont have the entire quote, just the link to the article I know that. The only guy who has it is the guy who wrote it. |
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 9, 2010 10:58:55 GMT -6
Is anyone else p!ssed off at Reed's quote that implies that all football coaches force players to play with head injuries? "I think the health benefits outweigh the criticisms of the offense," Reed said. "It is a moral outrage for football coaches to get kids to violate medical advices."I've never had a problem with the A-11 per-say, if you want to build your program around a trick-play gimick thats your problem. what has always bothered me is the shyster car-salesman approach to the whole thing. Reed's quote takes that to new lows. This next season will be my 10 season coaching and I have NEVER seen a coach tell a player to go against medical advice/directions. In fact we've held kids out who say they're ready because they haven't been cleared by the doctor. I'd love to see a complete transcript of the interview to understand the context of this quote. As printed the quote seems to be such a non-sequitur that I suspect it to be two separate answers to two separate questions strung together to make one quote. thats kind of what I thought as well, which pisses me off more (at the author, not at Reed) I should have been more clear on that in my first post. I still don't like what the quote (or mis-quote) implies about coaches in general. |
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 9, 2010 11:10:18 GMT -6
Morally irresponsible sums it up best, I think. It's akin to Taco Bell advertising its "Fresco" items as part of a weight loss solution.
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Post by phantom on Mar 9, 2010 11:24:28 GMT -6
Morally irresponsible sums it up best, I think. It's akin to Taco Bell advertising its "Fresco" items as part of a weight loss solution. Oh, it's worse by far. Taco Bell's stuff is paid advertising. This is supposed to be "journalism". I wonder if Rivals really wants to go this way. Their meat and potatoes is recruiting information. They depend very heavily on the goodwill of HS coaches. Do they really want stuff like this? |
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 9, 2010 11:30:44 GMT -6
I don't have much faith in journalism these days. I mean, ever read Peter King's weekly column? How that man has a job is beyond me.
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Post by coachguy83 on Mar 9, 2010 12:14:44 GMT -6
I have only ever known one lineman to get a concussion on a play from scrimmage. Unfourtanently it was me and it was on a PAT attempt in practice. The biggest kid on the team fell on my my head when my neck was at a funny angle. It rattled my brain and sprained my neck, but it sure as he!! wasn't something the A-11 would have prevented.
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Post by Chris Clement on Mar 9, 2010 12:48:47 GMT -6
My biggest complaint with the A-11 is the condescension they show, as though they have attained Nirvana and have crossed over to the other side. The original discovery of the loophole was clever, but obviously not the point. The numbering rule I believe mostly exists so officials can keep things straight in their minds, and the exception was to allow teams to put in players on punt teams who are normally fullbacks etc.
I congratulate discovering and exploiting the loophole for a season or two, but it clearly was not going to last. Now going to essentially the old BYU gimmick, they still cling to the pretense of grand innovation, when it's been done before. It also seems silly to have an ineligible receiver split so far out wide to catch a lateral, but that's a schematic issue.
I also think that closing the loophole helps the A-11, because they no longer have to keep an second guy 7 yards back if they don't want to. But in the end, I don't care if this is their scheme, that's fine, just don't act as though you've discovered a portal to the future.
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Post by superpower on Mar 9, 2010 13:27:03 GMT -6
And don't pretend that it will magically make football free of concussions and assorted other injuries.
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Post by airman on Mar 9, 2010 13:30:54 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ?
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Post by davecisar on Mar 9, 2010 13:42:55 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ? I dont care who is saying this More space=more concussions Less space=less concussions Linemen vs Linemen in 3 points arent causing concussions If you do a scientific study, poll 10,000 coaches on the matter, 98% of them are going to tell you the same A11= more space More space= more concussions the A11 will cause more concussions not fewer |
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Post by airman on Mar 9, 2010 13:55:23 GMT -6
I love the mere mention of the A 11 is the tipping point for some of you. it is the A 11 or is it you is the ? I dont care who is saying this More space=more concussions Less space=less concussions Linemen vs Linemen in 3 points arent causing concussions If you do a scientific study, poll 10,000 coaches on the matter, 98% of them are going to tell you the same A11= more space More space= more concussions the A11 will cause more concussions not fewer the nfl and people who study concussion do not see it this way. if you read the time article it was all lineman and lbers who were receiving the concussions from the small hits which they sustained on each play. much like boxers who get punch drunk. it is why the nfl is considering removing the 3 pt stance from football. the game of football is changing like it or not. it is change or die |
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Post by knighter on Mar 9, 2010 14:35:05 GMT -6
airman, i choose die.
simple enough?
hell let's just play 7 on 7 all the time and call it football...oh wait because that will lead to collisions that could involve injury
the wussification of America is happening, isn't it time as males that we decide to take our nation back?
This is a joke...I have coached for 15 years and played for at least 17 more...in 32 years of playing/coaching experience I have not seen 1 concussion in an offensive or defensive lineman due to collisions from a 3 point stance. The 4 concussions I have seen in 32 years have all occurred in space helmet to helmet or due to helmet to ground contact (while being tackled). What's next will we make this great game "thud" and penalize people for tackling to the ground? Better yet make it flag football?
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