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Post by coached4417 on Mar 8, 2010 20:57:36 GMT -6
We have been working on the character development of our best athlete for the past year and a half. Every time we think he has begun to turn the corner and show some maturity he does something else where we are ready to tell him don't come out for the football team. He is not an honest individual, at times he has been implicated in some outrageous behavior but never proved. He is selfish, which makes him soft when it comes to crunch time in the big games. He has lied to our faces several times and we have caught him in it, where he then owns up to it and apologizes. He is disrespectful at times to teachers in the building and other coaches of the sports that he plays. I really don't care about his ability on the football field but it is the only way we have leverage on this kid in the hopes of helping him grow up. As you might have guessed he is from a broken home, Dad is locked up, and all he ever hears from his older brother is do what is best for you and forget everybody else. Mom has little or no control over him and we are the biggest level of male authority in this kids life. It is just getting to the point where we are really considering "cutting" him because he will not get with the program. I'm sure some of you have experienced this before and I would appreciate your input. We will be a better TEAM with out him and we will make do without his contribution on the football field but I am not sure if this is the right answer.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 8, 2010 22:48:01 GMT -6
Until you can get him to honor his mom, you'll keep having the same episodes.
You say that mom has little control - What does that mean?
If he was a horrible athlete and was doing the things he's doing, would you be putting this thread together?
Just something to think about.
You're reaching out because you don't want to enable his present behaviors. So, don't.
Let him know exactly what you expect from him and start with being respectful towards his mother.
If he can't live up to your expectations put him on a step by step process to where if he doesn't turn it around he will misbehave his way out of your program from a playing time standpoint. Do what you have to do to keep him connected (as you believe he needs this). Show him that there is no give up in you but don't allow him to be a knucklehead.
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Post by blb on Mar 9, 2010 7:18:49 GMT -6
Three strikes and you're out.
The morale of the TEAM is more important than any single individual. Of all the things football is, it is most certainly NOT a mental health clinic.
If he chooses to GWTP, he may benefit from the rigors of discipline provided by the sport. If not, you should have a parting of the ways.
I am not the Good Shepherd - cannot afford to lose the flock trying to save one little lost lamb. Heck, even He got only 11 out of 12.
What evidence is there you can do in a couple hours a day in the three months or so of football season what wasn't done in his first 14-16 years on this Earth?
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Post by rolltide52 on Mar 9, 2010 11:39:41 GMT -6
He can have as many chances as he can endure, let him cut his own throat. If he does not change then your not punishing him enough. Make it so he quits or gets with the program. If he does somehting bad you come down hard on him with lots of pain and agony. If he does something good praise the hell out of him. Whats the worst that can happen? If he quits you loose your problem child if he stays then he will be with it.
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Post by coachdbs on Mar 9, 2010 12:00:07 GMT -6
Until you can get him to honor his mom, you'll keep having the same episodes. You say that mom has little control - What does that mean? If he was a horrible athlete and was doing the things he's doing, would you be putting this thread together? Just something to think about. You're reaching out because you don't want to enable his present behaviors. So, don't. Let him know exactly what you expect from him and start with being respectful towards his mother. If he can't live up to your expectations put him on a step by step process to where if he doesn't turn it around he will misbehave his way out of your program from a playing time standpoint. Do what you have to do to keep him connected (as you believe he needs this). Show him that there is no give up in you but don't allow him to be a knucklehead. Agreed. The easy thing to do when it gets this bad is to cut him loose. Coaching the motivated kids is the easy part of coaching....working with the difficult kids and making a difference is what makes my job so great. You will not save everyone but you can try. It can be frustrating but at the end of the day...you will rest easier knowing that you did everything possible to make a difference. I work at a school where there is an opportunity every day to make a difference with a kid who comes from a screwed up home. Many times it does not work out but when it does...there is no better feeling. I would second touchdowng's comments. Create a step-by-step plan to get him on track. Make sure he knows what will happen if he does not follow through on his committments. I would make the final step a suspension where he will only be allowed to return if/when his teammates are in favor of his return. As an FYI, we are currently having the exact same problem. Our best athlete was just removed from our leadership counsel. Next step will be to call parents in to discuss and to inform them that our next step will be suspension. I can tell you that his removal from leadership counsel and the fact that he is now aware of possible suspensions made a difference....he worked his tail off in the weightroom yesterday. He is a D1 kid that knows his chances of playing at the next level will be nill if he is not on the football field his senior year.
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Post by blb on Mar 9, 2010 12:15:24 GMT -6
I expect to have some problems with Freshmen because they are not very mature at that age.
I expect to have few problems with Sophomores - they have been through our program, HS, drivers' ed etc. for a year. They should know what is required and expected.
I expect to have no problems with Juniors. And I expect Seniors to solve problems before they get to me.
We stress Commitment, Responsibility, Self-Discipline throughout the program. Those are the things kids can learn from participation in HS football besides how to block the off-tackle play or rush the passer.
If somebody reaches their Junior or Senior year and hasn't figured it out, and you as coach continue to tolerate negative behaviors, you will be damaging your team and program because kids will see you didn't really believe in what you were preaching.
I'm all for second chances but again - three strikes and you're out.
As Bo Schembechler said, "No player or coach is as important as the team. And no team is as important as the program."
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Post by coachdbs on Mar 9, 2010 13:50:24 GMT -6
blb - I agree that allowing an athlete to continually screw up is detrimental to the team as a whole. This is why a step-by-step plan is necessary...which sounds a little like your 3 strikes rule. Also agree that frosh/soph years should be used to teach athletes program buy-in. However, I have also learned that most of these kids are the way they are because of their home life. I used to get mad at the kids...now I curse the parents. I just hate to see kids thrown to the curb who might succeed if just given another opportunity. IMO...there are ways to play hardball with these types of kids without kicking them off of the team. Again, I would recommend suspending him until he proves that he is ready to be committed.
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Post by airman on Mar 9, 2010 14:07:12 GMT -6
We have been working on the character development of our best athlete for the past year and a half. Every time we think he has begun to turn the corner and show some maturity he does something else where we are ready to tell him don't come out for the football team. He is not an honest individual, at times he has been implicated in some outrageous behavior but never proved. He is selfish, which makes him soft when it comes to crunch time in the big games. He has lied to our faces several times and we have caught him in it, where he then owns up to it and apologizes. He is disrespectful at times to teachers in the building and other coaches of the sports that he plays. I really don't care about his ability on the football field but it is the only way we have leverage on this kid in the hopes of helping him grow up. As you might have guessed he is from a broken home, Dad is locked up, and all he ever hears from his older brother is do what is best for you and forget everybody else. Mom has little or no control over him and we are the biggest level of male authority in this kids life. It is just getting to the point where we are really considering "cutting" him because he will not get with the program. I'm sure some of you have experienced this before and I would appreciate your input. We will be a better TEAM with out him and we will make do without his contribution on the football field but I am not sure if this is the right answer. sad this is this boy will most likely end up like his father. statistics show children with a father in prison are most likely going to continue this pattern.
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Post by jgordon1 on Mar 9, 2010 18:27:37 GMT -6
Consider that stolen...nice
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by juice10 on Mar 9, 2010 21:04:05 GMT -6
Unfortunately (or fortunately) however you look at it, you can't be at their sides every waking moment of their day. With that being said, sometimes you can instill values but it is ultimately up to them to make the correct choices. If they are continuing to make the same mistakes, ultimately they are not learning from them and they are hurting the overall make-up of the team. Decision is very simple, either they are with ya or against ya, and they are the ones who can make that decision.
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Post by coached4417 on Mar 9, 2010 21:19:57 GMT -6
Great suggestions guys and I am going to be talking with the HC about setting up a program for him to give him goals and expectations in order for him to see that what happens is up to him. We just got hired last year as an entire new staff and the kind of stuff we are dealing with was never dealt with at all by the previous staff, hence their departure ( don't even get me started on the stuff they let slide!!!) Cutting him by us is not the answer, but cutting himself, giving him as many chances as he can endure I like. Suspensions instead of cutting is a great answer and we are planning on having his Mom in to talk to her. I have had many conversations with him about how he treats her and you are right in that he needs consequences from the football program until he treats her the way he should. If he wasn't our best player, one I think the problems would be different, because he is our best player he is testing us, daring us to hold him accountable and we will. We as a staff believe no one is bigger than the team or program and he might have to find out the hard way. Would I be asking this question if he wasn't our best player, honestly, probably not, and that means I have more to work on with my priorities as a coach. He requires so much of our time because outside of him the other students difficulties and issues with the program are minor, they all pretty much toe the line, BUT HIM. I can't thank you guys enough for your help and advice. I will keep you posted and keep the suggestions coming.
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Post by blb on Mar 11, 2010 6:50:48 GMT -6
ed, you can lose with a kid like that, even though he's your best player.
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Post by coachfurn on Mar 11, 2010 15:31:01 GMT -6
You never want to give up on a kid. But if after chance after chance he doesn't get it, he honestly never will. I'm on the outside looking in, but it seems as if he should be out of your program. Leave the door slightly open if he can honestly change. But it does not sound like he will. I think we are in the minority, those of us who believe nobody is bigger than the team. I have worked with a lot of coaches who will keep a kid around because he can help on the field. But it quickly divides a team when the kids see your actions as a coach. If I'm going to get fired, I'm going out the way I believe a program should be run. And if I get fired for losing without our best player because he is a turd, then I can live with that.
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Post by mitch on Mar 11, 2010 15:50:27 GMT -6
I guess I'm in the minority, and maybe I don't have a good handle on what the kid is really like, but I don't think I would have him on our team any longer.
I do believe in second chances, but our football program will not improve and thrive if we have 'dead weight' dragging us down. That is what I see that kid as (as you described him, "working with him for a year and a half"). It's too hard to try and climb out of the hole of mediocrity as it is. But I know when you are struggling, it is easy to hang on to a kid and hope against all hope. I don't know if that is happening in your case, but I have went thru it.
You said, "we will be a better TEAM without him".
Pretty much sums up any decision I would have to make.
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Post by champ93 on Mar 11, 2010 19:22:17 GMT -6
After a 1 1/2 years on this project with no real long lasting change, he is now a distraction. I don't see it as giving up on him, but re-evaluating your time investment and allocating your energy towards the rest of your team. They (the team) know he's testing you. I would rather fail as being this kid's savior and succeed in keeping the team together. Wish him well, tell him if can keep his act together he is welcome to come back, otherwise you're done.
I've had this conversation with a few players before. It seems like something you have to do every few years as the attitude seems to cycle through.
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Post by coachcompton on Mar 11, 2010 19:47:36 GMT -6
We have been working on the character development of our best athlete for the past year and a half
He is not an honest individual
He is selfish
He has lied to our faces several times and we have caught him in it
He is disrespectful at times to teachers in the building and other coaches of the sports that he plays
---------------------------------------------------------- Sounds like you pretty much answered your own questions...I agree with what the others have said. You should call the kid in and tell him that he is important, that you love him, and most importantly believe in him. I would emphasize that he should be proud of what he is a part of and the things your program is all about. Honesty, hard work, determination, character, and loyalty. Tell him about how despite what his family life may be or what his peers do that there are how ever many coaches and players who will support him and be there for him. But he must realize that everything he does is representative of his coaches, his team-mates, his school, his community, his family, and most importantly himself. And let him know that right now he hasn't lived up to the standard that is a positive reputation of any of those entities.
I would design a program to keep him on track and help him out. Have him write out his goals and ambitions. Get his eyes set on something that isn't football and is attainable. Goals can come in all shapes and sizes; from personal conduct, to academics, career etc. Make sure the goals are attainable and make sure that they are things that he wishes to accomplish & will benefit him in the long run. I would whipe the previous slate clean when you give him the new program.
Lay out the rules and consequences. I personally like to go with the three strike rule (at least with more serious offenses). Other minor offenses can be corrected individually, but bottom line is the kid needs to know his boundaries, he needs to get on board with improving his attitude/direction, and the consequences need to be clear.
He will either a) accept the challenge b) not accept the challenge and quit c) accept the challenge but push it as far as he can since he has seemed to get away with a lot and you will have to follow through in cutting him.
I'm with you the last thing I want to do is cut a kid, I think the majority of coaches feel that when they have to cut a kid they have failed them (we can't save everyone from themselves, people have to be responsible for their own actions). Football is such a great sport for developing character and life skills, but there are only so many chances you can give before the team starts to question your authority and your philosophy...we all know that once that happens you might as well submit your resignation because you have lost control of the team.
I sure hope that your player can pull it together for his sake. It would be a shame to see a kid throw away these valueable life experiences esp. when he doesn't have much direction at home.
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Post by wolfden12 on Mar 11, 2010 20:04:37 GMT -6
I have encountered this several times at 2 different programs. There are some individuals who have family members or peers who have had struggles in their lives and feel because the"system" screwed them it will screw the people connected to them. These young people who we try to help have been surrounded by negativety whether from a broken home, teachers, or society. You can go out of your way to help young men through athletics or academics to help provide a better life for themselves and they don't buy in for whatever reason. You and your staff will drain yourself completely trying to guide and instill good values into a human being no matter where they come from or what they have been through. In the end, the individual has to meet you half way and want something better. A coach once told me at a recruiting night about these individuals in that "you can do everything in your power, but in the end you can't save them all." Coaches have a mindset that we can change any player, program, or situation if we put in the time and effort but in the end the quote above says it all.
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Post by coached4417 on Mar 11, 2010 20:41:31 GMT -6
You are all right. Its pulling the trigger that is the hard reality. We are setting out a plan for him and then he places the rope around his own neck. I'll keep you posted. Thanks to all of you. We all know our profession is very little X's and O's and really about helping boys become men. It is the most gratifying and hardest part of the job. When it clicks with a kid it doesnt matter the record, when it doesnt it is hard to watch. Thanks
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Post by coachcompton on Mar 11, 2010 20:54:14 GMT -6
You are all right. Its pulling the trigger that is the hard reality. We are setting out a plan for him and then he places the rope around his own neck. I'll keep you posted. Thanks to all of you. We all know our profession is very little X's and O's and really about helping boys become men. It is the most gratifying and hardest part of the job. When it clicks with a kid it doesnt matter the record, when it doesnt it is hard to watch. Thanks Again hope that the kid buys into the program and wants to learn to become a better person. Thats something we emphasize to these youngsters "if your not getting better your getting worse." It applies to workouts and practice. But it also applies to life, your career, your relationships, and being a decent human being. You always have to strive to get a little bit better each day. Best of luck to you coach.
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