coach11
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by coach11 on Mar 6, 2010 23:47:30 GMT -6
I wasn't sure where to put this thread. But I have a situation I need some help on.
Ok the girlfriend and I got into an argument the other day. Give you a little background on the situation. We have been dating for a little over 3 years now, so we both know quite a bit each other, and have talked a little about marriage, kids, etc. Both of us played small college ball, however she played just for the fun of it. Yes, she is competitive, but losing never really affected her. Which that is completely not me! She played soccer. Keep that in mind. We were talking the other day about AAU/club athletics. In high school, she played volleyball and soccer and graduated with 1300 students. I graduated with 150 students and heard about club sports but no one I knew participated in them. So I was in the dark about that whole deal. The other day she informed me of her participating in club soccer when she was high school, however her CLUB soccer games would sometimes interfere with her high school volleyball games. Instead of playing volleyball with her school teammates, she instead would go play club soccer on the weekends. She said she wanted to play soccer at the next level, therefore she went to what essentially were combines, tournaments. I was blown away. Now I never played AAU, club, etc. ball. So hearing her tell me this was an absolute shocker. First off, I would never have left my high school teammates/buddies to go to some other event if it interfered with a high school event. Secondly, I said I would never allow my football player to attend some basketball or baseball CLUB event while in season. Third, I would never let my own son or daughter abandon the kids they go to school with and play with. Needless to say, I changed the subject very quickly. I was unsure how to handle this argument. Any input is greatly appreciated.
Have any of you had to deal with something like this? From a parent/coach standpoint What's the big deal about club sports? Can someone help me out?
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Post by formrbcbuc on Mar 7, 2010 1:37:42 GMT -6
From a coaching standpoint they are a pain IMO. Often times they have told players to transfer schools, skip out on team events, and give them unrealisitic appraisals of their skills. I feel they have sniped good basketball players and stmied groeth of some soccer programs in Southern AZ. More importantly it's bleeding into other sports like football. We now have parents, "talent scouters", and coaches from other teams telling kids what position they should be playing, to transfer to other schools, and now have some questioning our playcalling at the JV level of all things. They also really screw things up for colleges and student-athletes such, basically when you hear a kid has been 4-6 HS during his career or has an AAU hype man. The MAyo kid and a # of issues at USC basketball are examples of this.
One example is that we have twokids with massive talent who are freshmen; they are alreay being courted by "scouts" who have suggested they move to other schools. Now, we play in one of the toughest conferences in the state and they've been told to move to teams that we may play. Another situation is that one of our players who is the opposite of their talents he saw a total of 35 minutes of playing time a few days ago told me that he was open to an FCS or D II school but thinks he could make it as a walk-on at U of AZ or a PAC-10 school.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 7, 2010 13:51:26 GMT -6
coach11 It is difficult to truly understand the CLUB/AAU sports world as a football coach because there really isn't one in our sport. Nothing that compares to interscholastic football anyway. CLUB teams in the less popular sports (such as soccer and volleyball) are HUGE because they originated by concentrating the talented and dedicated players onto fewer teams. (Again, because they were less popular). In the soccer and volleyball realms, club seasons are "the real" seasons, and the competition/level of play is generally much greater than the interscholastic seasons. Some exceptions may be private school leagues where most of the kids are probably playing club ball with/against each other anyway.
While interscholastic basketball is popular, the NCAA recruiting protocols and regulations vaulted AAU basketball into a different stratosphere. AAU teams are often manned entirely by NCAA blue chip athletes who then play against other NCAA blue chip athletes...which made College coaches very happy (got to compare apples to apples).
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 7, 2010 14:13:58 GMT -6
coach11 It is difficult to truly understand the CLUB/AAU sports world as a football coach because there really isn't one in our sport. Nothing that compares to interscholastic football anyway. CLUB teams in the less popular sports (such as soccer and volleyball) are HUGE because they originated by concentrating the talented and dedicated players onto fewer teams. (Again, because they were less popular). In the soccer and volleyball realms, club seasons are "the real" seasons, and the competition/level of play is generally much greater than the interscholastic seasons. Some exceptions may be private school leagues where most of the kids are probably playing club ball with/against each other anyway. While interscholastic basketball is popular, the NCAA recruiting protocols and regulations vaulted AAU basketball into a different stratosphere. AAU teams are often manned entirely by NCAA blue chip athletes who then play against other NCAA blue chip athletes...which made College coaches very happy (got to compare apples to apples). Same with the soccer and baseball scenes. A long time ago I felt the impact of premier and select soccer. We're getting ready for district track meet and three of our girls are relay kids but inform me that they can't make the district meet because of a "Showcase" tournament. This has been on their own calendars for months. I find out the week before we are seeding our kids. IF I would have known about showcase tournaments before that I would have interviewed each kid and find out what their dates were and then made some coaching decisions such as who to put on relays and who not to. Two of the three relay girls did receive partial scholarships because of the showcase event. I've only had one FB situation like this and it was in 2006. Two of my best players tell me that they cannot start FB until week three (in Sept) because of a "baseball showcase series" that will end at that time - This event went on for three weeks (with practices)! Somebody made lots of money off of a lot of families (but that's a different subject altogether) Team sport vs. Individual sport. To me, apples and oranges. I allowed the track kids to compete individually (never on relays) but I didn't allow the FB players to come in late and be "part of our team." To me these were two separate situations. Both boys and their parents came back week 4 to see if I was for real. I was. I even said, "would you like me to put it to a team vote?" They already knew their choice was very unpopular amongst the kids. The two boys became spectators and had to sit with the fans. On the good side, both rec'd D1 Baseball Scholarships for baseball. "Showcase" events are very real for those select and AAU kids. You can only decide how YOU will handle or navigate those situations ahead of time. Be proactive and have your policies ready to go before you get challenged. I hate to say it but these events are not going away.
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coach11
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by coach11 on Mar 7, 2010 15:01:53 GMT -6
I guess what I am worried most about is the fact there is a good possibility we will tie the knot, but this is something that worries me. We have really started to discuss marriage and I need input from you guys of how to handle this situation. I come from a coaching family and she doesn't, so our perception are sometimes 180 degress apart. If our kids want to play club sports, I can't stop them, however it worries me that my son will leave their school basebal team for a traveling basketball or traveling baseball squad. As a coach, I just can't swallow that pill, especially if and when I have to deal with my co-worker/head baeball coach. "Oh coach, my son won't be able to make the playoffs due to a traveling baseball squad." That just doesn't look good. Sorry, I don't mean to sound selfish but I am really not looking forward to that day. (Hopefully it never happens.) I just have a feeling I would have a harder time with a daughter than a son on this issue.
Another thing is she would like to see our kids at a large school. She wants our kids to get more exposure at a big school than they would at a small school, as in where I am coaching now. Like I said, I am at a school that graduates 90-100 students a year. And the school also does NOT have volleyball or soccer. I absolute love it and the HC/staff I work with is incredible. I don't mind being at a big school but I don't want to be so overwhelmed with numbers, even more parents, and the hustle of the big city, etc. Her high school had intramural hockey,rugby, lacrosse, you name it they had it. Now of course these sports were not recognized by her states association, but it was not uncommon to see college scouts and coaches.
Another thing is, as a hope to be future HC, do I/should I implement a rule against club/AAU sports during season. Is that something only I should deal with for my specific sport, or is that something I should talk to our AD and admin. about?
Thanks again for all the comments.
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Post by blb on Mar 7, 2010 15:28:32 GMT -6
Being a coach, much less header, is tough enough to handle, without harmony at home.
If Momma's not happy, nobody is.
And from what you've posted, there is no wiggle room here.
Either you have to change or end the relationship.
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Post by phantom on Mar 7, 2010 15:47:27 GMT -6
I guess what I am worried most about is the fact there is a good possibility we will tie the knot, but this is something that worries me. We have really started to discuss marriage and I need input from you guys of how to handle this situation. I come from a coaching family and she doesn't, so our perception are sometimes 180 degress apart. If our kids want to play club sports, I can't stop them, however it worries me that my son will leave their school basebal team for a traveling basketball or traveling baseball squad. As a coach, I just can't swallow that pill, especially if and when I have to deal with my co-worker/head baeball coach. "Oh coach, my son won't be able to make the playoffs due to a traveling baseball squad." That just doesn't look good. Sorry, I don't mean to sound selfish but I am really not looking forward to that day. (Hopefully it never happens.) I just have a feeling I would have a harder time with a daughter than a son on this issue. Another thing is she would like to see our kids at a large school. She wants our kids to get more exposure at a big school than they would at a small school, as in where I am coaching now. Like I said, I am at a school that graduates 90-100 students a year. And the school also does NOT have volleyball or soccer. I absolute love it and the HC/staff I work with is incredible. I don't mind being at a big school but I don't want to be so overwhelmed with numbers, even more parents, and the hustle of the big city, etc. Her high school had intramural hockey,rugby, lacrosse, you name it they had it. Now of course these sports were not recognized by her states association, but it was not uncommon to see college scouts and coaches. Another thing is, as a hope to be future HC, do I/should I implement a rule against club/AAU sports during season. Is that something only I should deal with for my specific sport, or is that something I should talk to our AD and admin. about? Thanks again for all the comments. Did I miss the part where you guys actually have kids?
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Post by blb on Mar 7, 2010 15:57:13 GMT -6
Did I miss the part where you guys actually have kids? Uh oh - maybe too late to help.
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coach11
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by coach11 on Mar 7, 2010 16:21:28 GMT -6
HA HA no no...Nothing like that fellas. Just trying to get some input from what you guys think.
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Post by cqmiller on Mar 7, 2010 16:45:54 GMT -6
I know that one of the reasons I thought I would never get married was because I would never find a woman who could understand my obsession with football. It takes up so much time and effort, most women get jealous if their husband is a position coach and has to spend X amount of hours at meetings and whatnot. Caused me a few issues in the past.
Then I met my wife 3 years ago. She had the same issues with men in her past. They always told her she needs to stop coaching and spend more time with them, so she would kick them to the curb. She is a varsity basketball coach, and puts in just as many hours towards that as I do toward football. She understands the obsession and the time commitment it takes. I know of a few guys I have coached with in the past, and still coach with, that their wives are making them be late for meeting A, or leave early from meeting B. Always upset (can't believe p!55ed is censored) that they have to do thier job. These are the guys telling me that when I have my first child in a couple of weeks, EVERYTHING will change. No more meetings, no more long film hours, etc... Unless my wife magically changes in 3 weeks, we already have a plan on how each of us has to handle the parent duties more or less depending upon the season. Might have to have my baby sleeping in the office while I supervise weights if my wife has basketball practice. As long as you both are on the same page, everything will work out. If not... could be a long day EVERY DAY.
If you don't think it is worth giving up on the sport because that is who you are... then you gotta find someone who likes who you are. Fighting about small/big school when it's at least 16 years in the future or more is pointless. Sounds like you guys are not on the same page on at least one major issue. I would suggest finding out if there are more before getting married. I feel for you because I've been there before.
My wife and I even planned our pregnancy around football and basketball. Had a 1.5 month window where she would only be about 8 months pregnant when basketball ended, and the baby would come early enough that it wouldn't interfere with spring football or summer football/basketball. If you can find a woman who understands, it doesn't have to be a big issue like I hear a lot of guys complaining about.
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Post by hsrose on Mar 8, 2010 1:43:47 GMT -6
Can't help you on the home front, but I have experience with baseball, volleyball, and soccer club activities.
It's generally known in this area (SF Bay) that it is not likely that a player will get recruited to play soccer or volleyball based on high school competition, it's just too watered down. One of the boys club teams in the area just posted that they had 12 all-league soccer players on it. One of the girls soccer club teams last season had 13 players get scholarships. Think those teams would beat most HS teams? So, you play club soccer and volleyball. My oldest played for a local premier soccer team that traveled to Texas, South Carolina, and Florida for showcases. The big one out here is the Surf Cup in San Diego, which is basically a college recruiting showcase. Not unusual to have 5k people at the championship games, mostly college recruiters. The game schedules, with rosters, are posted and sent to the colleges so they know which kid they want to see is playing where and when.
Same for volleyball. My youngest has played power league and her team has competed in national championship tournaments the past 2 years. When the parents pay $2-4k for their kids to play, you don't get the kids who don't want to be there.
For comparison, let's start a spring power football league. Charge $1,000 per player for a club football team, and they will be competing against other teams, with possible national exposure. How much value do you think that they would place on playing HS ball? What if there were 200 high schools playing football in your state (1,500 here in Cali), but there was also a spring premier league that had 20 teams in the state, with a state playoff and possibly a regional/competition, and each player was paying to be there, and what you got was the majority of DI/DII kids playing each other. Who would the college scouts be going to see/recruit, Big Johnny playing Little Sisters, or Big Johnny playing Big Dave?
We had FB players miss parts of double-days and 1 missed the week 1 games for baseball showcases. Just moved them down on the depth chart and go on.
With the cost of higher education rising all the time parents are grasping at anything that will possibly get their kid noticed.
For us, we pay for the power league volleyball because my daughter just likes to compete and knows that college vball probably isn't in her future - too short at 5'9". She want's to play at that level because she loves the game. She loves to compete on a team that is very competitive vs. playing for her HS team that won 1 match last year.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 8, 2010 8:59:48 GMT -6
OK first of all, I am going to have to suspend your man card for a minimum of 90 days. You can apply for reinstatement as a man at the end of the 90 day probationary period by meeting the required criteria and by submitting the proper paper work in triplicate.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2010 10:17:02 GMT -6
I have only seen this from a baseball perspective.
Several years ago, we had a very talented TB, talented enough to go very far in not only HS sports, but possibly the college level as well. However, he was a good baseball player as well; the Legion coaches and 'talent' scouts had him convinced that he would be playing farm league baseball straight out of HS. He juggled both, missed a lot of offseason/summer workouts, camps, and even two-a-days because of baseball. And we were very flexible with the baseball coaches when it came to their schedule.
Long story short, he quit football, focused solely on baseball and paid for it. As good as he was at baseball, he didn't get any offers from farm teams and only had one-two offers to play college baseball. And, those offers came from NAIA and D3 schools; quite the step down, ego-wise, from the dreams of playing MLB baseball that had been pumped into his head.
It was a shame too; he was far more talented at football than baseball and that's not coming from a biased point of view. He was very fast, had excellent field vision, and could catch and block as well. It wasn't uncommon for him to have 150 yard rushing games along with pulling down 50 yards worth of passes.
Had he stuck with football, he would've excelled and AT LEAST had the college offers that he had for baseball. There were kids from that program with far less talent than him that went onto the next level.
The worst thing was, even from a statistical point of view, he wasn't putting together good performances in baseball. He was a solid pitcher, but there were guys in the valley that were just as good as him.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Mar 8, 2010 10:22:31 GMT -6
coach11, here is my advice, memorize these phrases and you shall live, do it not and perish on this field of battle. (little Braveheart lingo) -Yes Dear, -You are so right Dear -After I take out the trash is there anything else I can do Dear? Now, go forth and multiply my son.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2010 10:30:54 GMT -6
If you can't coach at home, how do you expect to coach on the field?
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Post by TMGPG on Mar 8, 2010 12:31:27 GMT -6
I also agree with blb. That puts you in a pickle
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coach11
Sophomore Member
Posts: 162
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Post by coach11 on Mar 8, 2010 12:45:29 GMT -6
OJW, that is awesome! And come on woodall, it's easy for you to say that on here, but would you have the fortitude to say that in front of your wife....survey says, NO!
Come on guys, let's be realistic.
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Post by bluecrazy on Mar 8, 2010 13:15:03 GMT -6
coach11, here is my advice, memorize these phrases and you shall live, do it not and perish on this field of battle. (little Braveheart lingo) -Yes Dear, -You are so right Dear -After I take out the trash is there anything else I can do Dear? Now, go forth and multiply my son. Once your married, you have two choices. 1- you can be right. or 2- you can be happy
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 8, 2010 13:20:56 GMT -6
My vote counts just as much as hers; no more, no less.
Do we always agree, no. In matters of sport, she defers to me.
The problem you encounter with the AAU/club/travel ball teams is this:
How much money does it cost to take part? I bet you won't get the parent to admit to FULL cost they have paid in all through the years.
If you watch the college baseball world series, there are maybe 2 AT THE MOST full scholly players on the field for any given team. Most of those kids are either paying their way or getting academic money.
The Point: The parents would be better off getting their kids college fund payed up or using it for tutoring/SAT prep classes to get a acedemic scholly.
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Post by coachbiskits on Mar 8, 2010 13:28:08 GMT -6
If a kid misses any school sanctioned event ( practice, game, scrimmage ) for any non-school sport, they are automatically ineligable to compete in any state/regional playoffs unless they have completed paperwork with the school before the season ( and the school can say no ). The AD has to get the info to the affected coach, which is where our difficulty arises in our program.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2010 14:57:49 GMT -6
I wasn't sure where to put this thread. But I have a situation I need some help on. Ok the girlfriend and I got into an argument the other day. Give you a little background on the situation. We have been dating for a little over 3 years now, so we both know quite a bit each other, and have talked a little about marriage, kids, etc. Both of us played small college ball, however she played just for the fun of it. Yes, she is competitive, but losing never really affected her. Which that is completely not me! She played soccer. Keep that in mind. We were talking the other day about AAU/club athletics. In high school, she played volleyball and soccer and graduated with 1300 students. I graduated with 150 students and heard about club sports but no one I knew participated in them. So I was in the dark about that whole deal. The other day she informed me of her participating in club soccer when she was high school, however her CLUB soccer games would sometimes interfere with her high school volleyball games. Instead of playing volleyball with her school teammates, she instead would go play club soccer on the weekends. She said she wanted to play soccer at the next level, therefore she went to what essentially were combines, tournaments. I was blown away. Now I never played AAU, club, etc. ball. So hearing her tell me this was an absolute shocker. First off, I would never have left my high school teammates/buddies to go to some other event if it interfered with a high school event. Secondly, I said I would never allow my football player to attend some basketball or baseball CLUB event while in season. Third, I would never let my own son or daughter abandon the kids they go to school with and play with. Needless to say, I changed the subject very quickly. I was unsure how to handle this argument. Any input is greatly appreciated. Have any of you had to deal with something like this? From a parent/coach standpoint What's the big deal about club sports? Can someone help me out? Coach, let me give you a little advice...see that argument you're having right there Peanuts compared to what you are going to argue about when you get married ( Married guys can I get an Amen?).... I'd just voice my opinion, ingore the little $hit and worry about something much more important, like where are you're going for Pizza or something....forget little crap like that. If you really like her sometimes you have to eat a few for the team
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 8, 2010 17:51:55 GMT -6
I have only seen this from a baseball perspective. Travel/Fall/Summer baseball coaches that have kids concentrate on baseball for a "scholarship" deserve a special spot in hell.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Mar 8, 2010 19:00:28 GMT -6
coach11, here is my advice, memorize these phrases and you shall live, do it not and perish on this field of battle. (little Braveheart lingo) -Yes Dear, -You are so right Dear -After I take out the trash is there anything else I can do Dear? Now, go forth and multiply my son. Once your married, you have two choices. 1- you can be right. or 2- you can be happy lol that's awesome...but seriously, my wife is great...she even lets me THINK I'm right sometimes.
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Post by falconattack on Mar 9, 2010 10:53:11 GMT -6
My wife and I have a great understanding. She hates the hours I put in towards football and other peoples children. We disagree on type of food we should be eating (I like fried, greasy, good tasting food, she likes healthy stuff with no flavor--salads, fish etc.). and there is plenty more.....the one thing we have going for us....at the end of the day, I have her back and she has mine.
Problems come and go, would you miss her if she was gone? ---bottom line!!!
One quick question.........whatever happened to playing sport for competitive enjoyment, not a scholarship???
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Post by blb on Mar 9, 2010 10:59:29 GMT -6
My wife and I have had a great understanding, too, since we've been married (29 years):
She cooks, I eat. Worked out well so far.
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