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Post by hlb2 on Mar 1, 2010 6:51:12 GMT -6
Hey guys, my staff and I seem to constantly have this debate and I wanted to get some outside input on things. We currently have 7 coaches for varsity and JV (we do not split up, both staffs work both games). We have, on average, between 75 and 85 kids/year between the 2 teams. We all coach 2 positions so we can split the groups up and work on different things for their skill/age level. What we do now is we do fundamental/INDY time together, but split the groups up by varsity and jv. When we go team we have 3 coaches go with the JV and 4 go with the varsity.
What we've seen is that once the JV season is over, things go a lot smoother due to having all 7 coaches on the field. During spring ball we all come together, but it seems like their are kids on the s/l that are doing nothing for an extended period of time, and I have to devote 1 coach to staying with them and keeping them focused.
For those with limited staffs, which one of the above would you pick? I'm looking to add an 8th coach which would really be a huge asset as it seems we can do ok with 4 coaches during team times. Any ideas?
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 1, 2010 11:19:59 GMT -6
suggestion:
offensive "staff" & defensive "staff" ... i.e. coach 1 side of the ball
1st half of practice, JV goes to offense while varsity goes to defense.
2nd half of practice, switch
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Post by realdawg on Mar 1, 2010 12:08:09 GMT -6
Huey's suggestion is very good.
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Post by coachsky on Mar 1, 2010 12:36:21 GMT -6
suggestion: offensive "staff" & defensive "staff" ... i.e. coach 1 side of the ball 1st half of practice, JV goes to offense while varsity goes to defense. 2nd half of practice, switch This is exactly how we do it. Works great. So when varsity is working offense we have our JV group working defense. When we are working with JV guys we are focusing a lot more on techniques. When we work Varsity we are covering a lot more Game Situation and are much deeper in the playbook. We come together for 11 on 11. But that is always Best on Best for 75% of the session, and then a shorter JV session. |
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Post by superpower on Mar 1, 2010 13:10:26 GMT -6
I love Coach Huey's suggestion, but it is obviously intended for schools that have a large number of players. We simply can't do it that way in a smaller school where we have 5 coaches (HC + 4 assistants) and only 35-45 players (grades 9-12).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2010 15:09:09 GMT -6
I coach with hlb2 and we tried it that way, but your f'ed once a coach is sick or cannot be at practice.
Duece
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Post by blb on Mar 1, 2010 15:53:37 GMT -6
Coaches are not allowed to be sick during the season or miss practice.
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Post by hlb2 on Mar 1, 2010 15:59:18 GMT -6
Coaches are not allowed to be sick during the season or miss practice. Ha! Good luck with that 1. I have 1 that's our truancy officer, he has court some days, so he's gone. I also have 2 who work off campus that sometimes (rarely) have to miss, but when they do, if we were divided o/d it would really hurt us I beleive. |
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Post by coachsky on Mar 1, 2010 16:15:55 GMT -6
I agree - In season you have to be hospitalized not to show!
About half of our staff doesn't teach and sometimes work gets in the way.
When we don't have somone show we mix postion groups; DBs & LBer, DL&LBer, RB & Rec, RB and OL. There are a ton of indies and group drill work you can get done. Little imagination and creativity is all it takes.
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Post by thakatalyst on Mar 1, 2010 16:20:50 GMT -6
I have not missed a practice in 6 years! Then again, I teach...and I'm a cyborg. As the DC, I don't coach an individual position. If someone misses or has been late, I take over for them that day. Same goes for our HC.
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Post by buck42 on Mar 1, 2010 16:28:13 GMT -6
I feel your pain...I am the HC and I am the only coach that teaches at the school. (I am battling with my admin to change that) However, we get out of school at 2.15 and my first assistant can not show up until 4.15 or so. I have practice plans and everything the day before (slight modifications will be made of course if needed) but I can not tell you how many times a coach could not make it...what do you do about that?
Please dont say "find new coaches" because that is the no brainer but it is not that easy...and hella tough to get a coach into a teaching spot with the budget cuts...Suggestions?
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Post by highball007 on Mar 1, 2010 20:46:27 GMT -6
I have done it the way Coach Huey is talking about! I liked it a lot and felt that the JV players were more ready for Varsity time if someone got hurt or what have you!
Currently here is how we coach: 3O/D3
1-QB/RB
2-OL
3-WR
4-DB
5-LB
6-DL and then we have 1 payed at the frosh and 2 vol. assistants at the frosh to make 3.
We have 1-2 other Vol guys that make it when they can.
We dabbled in Platooning last year and then went away from it but then went back the last four games and had a huge success. 70% of time was on focus side and 30% was on second side. Our stud athletes that we needed to go both ways still did, but they pick things up faster and are the best even if they didn't practice on that side!
we had a few players end up getting all-league that were not that caliber of player till they started practicing 70% of the time 1 way.
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ozcoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 132
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Post by ozcoach on Mar 2, 2010 7:55:42 GMT -6
I ran a few JV-aged (we don't have JV/V setup here) practices with 36 kids solo a few times. It wasn't ideal, but you can be pretty creative (by necessity).
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Post by blb on Mar 2, 2010 8:33:49 GMT -6
I'll give the contrary POV.
Coached six years CFB so I'm familiar with two-platooning, coaching one side of ball organization and philosophy.
I have tried it a few times as a head HS coach and don't like it.
We have had very few sophomores good enough to play for Varsity, so I didn't like coaching kids during Individual who weren't going to play for me that week.
It also took time-reps away from the kids who WERE going to play Friday.
You have to be even more aware of physical mismatches if sophomores are practicing with seniors.
Our JV coaches like having a degree of autonomy with their players and team.
I think it also aids in a coach's professional development to coach all phases rather than specializing.
If you're going to break up for Group, Team, Kicking etc. - what's the sense of coming together at all?
Since JVs-Frosh play on different night than us their preparation week isn't the same, which affects practice routine (coaches available, who's in full pads or not, etc.)
I have enough stress in-season with out having to risk getting my azz kicked TWICE a week (I am on headsets during Frosh-JV games though). If I want to do that I'll coach basketball.
We two-platoon as much as possible but there are just some kids you can't have standing on the sideline if you want to win.
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Post by fisherttm on Mar 2, 2010 14:51:03 GMT -6
We started doing the model Huey talked about around 7 years ago and have really liked what it gives us. It's particularly effective if you have a staff that will be together
for more than a couple of years. What we found is that starting in their sophomore year they hear one voice for three straight years at their position and it allows for the coaches to really specialize into that position and learn their athletes capabilities. It also helps during game planning since now we have 3 voices talking rather than 6-8 all wanting some input when half the time they have no idea what they are talking about since they dont even like that side of the ball.
As for the missing practice part it happens and what usually takes place is our Head Coach or OC takes on more responsibilty for the day. Obviously no system is perfect but for us we have found it to be the best for our athletes.
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Post by TMGPG on Mar 2, 2010 21:00:20 GMT -6
We are a smaller school and we started out going offense one day and defense the next day. The problem with that was that those players that did not play on both sides of the ball basically got a day off and would take advantage of that. So I like splitting the practice up between the O and D.
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Post by hlb2 on Mar 3, 2010 6:25:36 GMT -6
We are a smaller school and we started out going offense one day and defense the next day. The problem with that was that those players that did not play on both sides of the ball basically got a day off and would take advantage of that. So I like splitting the practice up between the O and D. I've thought about doing this as well, but here in FL we have thunderstorms and lightning early in the season so sometimes we miss days, or parts of days due to the weather. We scrapped that idea pretty quickly. |
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Post by coachorr on Mar 3, 2010 10:10:20 GMT -6
I coach with hlb2 and we tried it that way, but your f'ed once a coach is sick or cannot be at practice. Duece What? Can a coach ever miss a practice during the season....no. |
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Post by coachorr on Mar 3, 2010 10:12:26 GMT -6
I have not missed a practice in 6 years! Then again, I teach...and I'm a cyborg. As the DC, I don't coach an individual position. If someone misses or has been late, I take over for them that day. Same goes for our HC. I haven't missed one in 14 years. My son was born on a Thursday night at 5:30, I was at the JV game by 7:00 that same night. I was the varsity Oline coach. I am not saying I am anything special, but it is a code you don't break. I have a couple of off campus coaches now and it has happened a couple of times. |
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Post by coachorr on Mar 3, 2010 10:19:45 GMT -6
I'll give the contrary POV. Coached six years CFB so I'm familiar with two-platooning, coaching one side of ball organization and philosophy. I have tried it a few times as a head HS coach and don't like it. We have had very few sophomores good enough to play for Varsity, so I didn't like coaching kids during Individual who weren't going to play for me that week. It also took time-reps away from the kids who WERE going to play Friday. You have to be even more aware of physical mismatches if sophomores are practicing with seniors. Our JV coaches like having a degree of autonomy with their players and team. I think it also aids in a coach's professional development to coach all phases rather than specializing. If you're going to break up for Group, Team, Kicking etc. - what's the sense of coming together at all? Since JVs-Frosh play on different night than us their preparation week isn't the same, which affects practice routine (coaches available, who's in full pads or not, etc.) I have enough stress in-season with out having to risk getting my azz kicked TWICE a week (I am on headsets during Frosh-JV games though). If I want to do that I'll coach basketball. We two-platoon as much as possible but there are just some kids you can't have standing on the sideline if you want to win. I agree with this POV. One thought is to begin practice together and then break off. Also, are there players who have graduated who are familiar with your system who would like to help out in your program for a small fee from fundraiser money? Or perhaps a community member or two who might be interested in fullfilling this role ie. a youth level coach or two, someone who has an interest to coach up at the next level? You might think about having a JV OC and JV DC and then fill in the ranks with one or two position coaches with non-stipended staff. Two of these types of coaches would be all you would need and then JV could practice on its own for team and game prep. |
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Post by coachorr on Mar 3, 2010 10:23:56 GMT -6
We are a smaller school and we started out going offense one day and defense the next day. The problem with that was that those players that did not play on both sides of the ball basically got a day off and would take advantage of that. So I like splitting the practice up between the O and D. To piggy back on this idea, can you go one day offense oriented and one day defense oriented. For example, if Monday were an Offensive day you might have a 30 minute Indy time for Offense and a 15-20 minute indy time for defense and on Tuesday you flip. To me this is good when considering the needs of each team are different, the defensive team unit is better served with a longer Indy time and a shorter team time, whereas the offensive team unit is better served with an inside run time and a skelly time 50/50 and then a longer team time than defense. Depending on your scheme of course. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 3, 2010 17:49:56 GMT -6
I am now of the belief that one of the biggest time wasters in football practice is TEAM. Only reason i really need team on defense is to cover those situations such as play actions, reverses etc. Keeping the D's reads honest. It used to KILL ME when the defensive coordinator would run something like trap more than one time in team...Wasted rep for 7 of the 11 players...and something that is EASILY covered in 9 on 7 or inside run.
CoachOrr--I am curious as to why you feel that offense is better served with a longer team time than defense? The fact that defense is more reactionary makes me believe that IT actually needs more full 11-on-11 reps.
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parkway
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by parkway on Mar 3, 2010 18:26:17 GMT -6
I am now of the belief that one of the biggest time wasters in football practice is TEAM. Only reason i really need team on defense is to cover those situations such as play actions, reverses etc. Keeping the D's reads honest. It used to KILL ME when the defensive coordinator would run something like trap more than one time in team...Wasted rep for 7 of the 11 players...and something that is EASILY covered in 9 on 7 or inside run. CoachOrr--I am curious as to why you feel that offense is better served with a longer team time than defense? The fact that defense is more reactionary makes me believe that IT actually needs more full 11-on-11 reps. I agree; I am not a big fan of extended team periods. Many coaches do them and are very successful, but I like to focus on group periods for reads. |
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Post by unc31 on Mar 3, 2010 18:32:35 GMT -6
We also have a defensive staff and an offensive staff. We are fortunate to have 15-17 coaches tatal most years with about 4 of those being interns who are right out of college and not yet teaching. I do not coach a position and spend at least 85% of my time with the varsity. I still have enough time to help the JV's when needed and also to spend enough time with them for them to get to know me and me know them.
Offense:
QB's
RB's
WR's
Slots
TE's
OL + Intern
Defense:
Safeties/DC
Corners
DL + Intern
DE's + Intern
LB's + Intern
By having to coach only one side of the ball, our coaches can focus on great technique and fundamentals. Also, when the kids move up they are not getting "new" coaches. The consistency is tremendous.
We do the same basic things on JV that we do on the varsity, just not as extensively. When they move up, they are just adding to what they already know. Also the coaches know who can get it done and who can't.
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