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Post by davecisar on Feb 25, 2010 13:12:20 GMT -6
I dont know how to do a poll here
Of those of you that have had championship YOUTH teams only: If you havent won one or more, please dont participate. Not meant as a slam, I want to know from the guys that have actually done it, not what people think it should be or what their opinions of other teams are, which may or may not be on target.
What were the top aspects of the team or your coaching that made your team a championship team?
Put them from highest to lowest level of importance in that Championship season or seasons only:
1) Team Chemistry/trust/buy-in/character 2) Mastery of Fundamentals 3) Practice Priorities/Efficient Practices 4) Player development 5) Player talent levels 6) Offensive and Defensive Scheme 7) Lack of key injuries 8) Age- kids at upper end of age bracket 9) Game Day Management/Scouting/Adjustments 10) Size 11) Parental Support 12) Luck 13) Equipment/Facilities
While every team I had is different, this was the order I came up with as an aggregate score for my Championship level seasons.
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Post by pantherfb10 on Feb 25, 2010 16:41:37 GMT -6
1.Team Chemistry 2.Practice Priortities 3.Player Development 4.Mastery of fundamentals 5. Offensive and defensive scheme 6.Game day management 7.Size of team 8.Individual Talent 9. Age 10. injuries 11. luck 12. Parental support 13. equipment
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 25, 2010 16:56:09 GMT -6
1.Team Chemistry 2.Mastery of fundamentals 3.Practice Priortities 4.Player Development 5.Individual Talent 6. Offensive and defensive scheme 7.Game day management 8.Size of team 9. Age 10. injuries 11. luck 12. Parental support 13. equipment
DC, I have won championships in 3 states and several different levels. Commitment to the program and fundamentals always seem to be the biggest things to a successfull team. After that I believe a cohesive staff is most important. Too often in youth ball I see daddy ballers, that is usually a reciepe for disaster.
Joe
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Post by davecisar on Feb 25, 2010 16:59:09 GMT -6
MH
Point taken and I agree good point. Im blessed that hasnt been an issue for us, but it is for many. Thanks for making the point.
Probably should have had the ability to teach/transfer knowledge. Many know the game but can't teach it well.
Defensive/Offensive scheme meant the scheme was sound and made sense for youth football, the youth football mission and the specific group of kids youre coaching.
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Post by coachalbert on Feb 25, 2010 17:14:44 GMT -6
1.Coach Loyalty 2.Blocking 3.Tackling 4. Having fun.
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 25, 2010 17:44:00 GMT -6
DC
There is an old coaching axiom(I goes old coaches have 'em). It isn't what you know it's what your team knows. We use fairly complex scheme's but make sure our kids are well drilled. It's always a process to build a team. We start with our base skills and add as our team is ready. Some years you have the team that can handle the more complex scheme's and plays, some years not. Either way you can be successfull. My favorite teams have always been the ones with less talent, that simply refused to lose.
The other old coaching axiom I adhere to is: Players win games, Coaches Lose them. This year we lost our first game in 3 years at the Nationals. Instantly after the game I took the responcibility for the loss. I refuse to ever let a team or player take the fall. My shoulders are broad enough.
All told, players are players no matter where you are. It's our job to make them winners. Sometimes you can do that without winning a championship, but winning sure helps.
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Post by davecisar on Feb 25, 2010 17:54:58 GMT -6
MH,
I adhere to that as well
LOTS of coaches know the game, but cant transfer knowledge
If you were in Orlando at PW or AYF I was there all week, what team?
Lots of people think coaching doesnt matter. Like you, Ive taken responsibility for every one of the 17 losses my teams have had in the last 14 seasons.
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 25, 2010 18:22:47 GMT -6
Mint Hill Chargers AYF All American 14 U (8th Grade)
We lost to the Park Ridge Falcons who went on to win the championship. Great game, 22-20 after 2 OT's. The prior 2 seasons we won the national championship.
We are in CHarlotte NC area.
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Post by davecisar on Feb 25, 2010 18:46:18 GMT -6
Mint Hill Chargers AYF All American 14 U (8th Grade) We lost to the Park Ridge Falcons who went on to win the championship. Great game, 22-20 after 2 OT's. The prior 2 seasons we won the national championship. We are in CHarlotte NC area. What color Jerseys did those 2 teams have and what time/field/day did you play that game. I stopped and watched a few 14U games for 10 minutes here and there. I was there on 3 different days mainly to watch the Spirit of Faith Warriors 5 teams.
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 25, 2010 19:06:50 GMT -6
We were in either blue on blue, or White on Blue, Park Rige was black and red. In our two other games we won 50-0. It was a great experience for the players.
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Post by davecisar on Feb 25, 2010 19:11:47 GMT -6
If you played on the field nearest the parking lot and near the UA trailer I may have seen the early part of one of your games against an all black teams in Black and Red.
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Post by coachmsl on Feb 25, 2010 20:45:10 GMT -6
I dont know how to do a poll here Of those of you that have had championship YOUTH teams only: If you havent won one or more, please dont participate. Not meant as a slam, I want to know from the guys that have actually done it, not what people think it should be or what their opinions of other teams are, which may or may not be on target. What were the top aspects of the team or your coaching that made your team a championship team? Put them from highest to lowest level of importance in that Championship season or seasons only: 1) Team Chemistry/trust/buy-in/character 2) Mastery of Fundamentals 3) Practice Priorities/Efficient Practices 4) Player development 5) Player talent levels 6) Offensive and Defensive Scheme 7) Lack of key injuries 8) Age- kids at upper end of age bracket 9) Game Day Management/Scouting/Adjustments 10) Size 11) Parental Support 12) Luck 13) Equipment/Facilities While every team I had is different, this was the order I came up with as an aggregate score for my Championship level seasons. I would agree that your #1 is huge! In addition to what you've listed, A common thread for each of our championship seasons was great effort at practice. These teams loved to pratice and didnt mind rep after rep after rep, same indies over and over trying to get better. Had a team in Basketball once that hated to practice. Definately NOT a championship team. msl
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Post by gameface on Feb 26, 2010 10:22:32 GMT -6
Dave,
I agree with you pretty much. I shuffled it around a little. Our run I felt was in this order.
1) Team Chemistry/trust/buy-in/character 2) Mastery of Fundamentals 3) Practice Priorities/Efficient Practices--- Total unity of the coaching staff 4) Player development 5) Offensive and Defensive Scheme 6) Player talent levels 7) Age- kids at upper end of age bracket 8) Game Day Management/Scouting/Adjustments 9) Lack of key injuries 10) Size 11) Parental Support 12) Luck 13) Equipment/Facilities
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 26, 2010 17:26:43 GMT -6
DC
No that was the Brooklyn team I believe. We played on the center or far field.
Joe
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Post by mhcoach on Feb 27, 2010 16:44:25 GMT -6
OK, I have been thinking this over the last few days. Here is some of the conclusions I have come to:
1) Good teams are organized and do sound football things that you can recognize. 2) They are fundamentally sound (block & tackle well) 3) They are disiplined (No stupid errors) 4) Their Coaches have a plan and an answer.
Poor Teams:
1) Run a hodge podge O & D 2) Can't block or Tackle 3) Have NO disipline 4) Honestly believe the better teams are Cheating to win
Why is it that these teams and orginazations think in this manner. I was lucky, I started in a very successful orginazation. Over the years I went to every clinic I could. Worked hard at having a plan. Coached the coaches for years. Football coaches for the most part are always willing to share their knowledge. Why is it some orginzations refuse to believe they can become better? The excuses range from : Well so & so recruits all the best talent.... The refs hate us.... Our kids won't come to practice..... We would have won if Lil Johnny didn't drop the ball..... Our parents aren't involved enough......... so on & so on
All of this can be corrected by hard work. Not only for the team but for the coaches. Too often I watch a youth practice and see 45 minutes of Cals. Then scrimage time. No indie time no basics. Isn't it our job as coaches to learn our craft. Coaching Football is a skill, it needs to be learned and developed just like the players.
Sorry for the rant it was just something that wasn't sitting well with me.
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Post by headtrip on Mar 8, 2010 18:37:14 GMT -6
ok, since this has died down i think it's ok for me to add a little bit. i haven't been a part of any national championship team, but i have been a part of and around several top teams within the conference i coach.
i've changed the order around a little. it fits with what works here, at least as i interpret their meanings.
1) Practice Priorities/Efficient Practices--- Total unity of the coaching staff 2) Mastery of Fundamentals 3) Team Chemistry/trust/buy-in/character 4) Player development 5) Age- kids at upper end of age bracket 6) Player talent levels 7) Offensive and Defensive Scheme 8) Size 9) Lack of key injuries 10)Game Day Management/Scouting/Adjustments 11) Parental Support 12) Luck 13) Equipment/Facilities
there is one thing i don't see on here, i guess it could fit under character, but to me is different. attitude. i've seen teams go out on to the field and just will the other team to lose. equally talented, probably not quite as well coached, but just forced to lose because the other team WOULD NOT lose. mean, but not cheap/dirty, they stop when the whistle blows, but from the snap of the ball to the whistle they're determined and aggressive.
it's hard to describe. mean and aggressive, but not dirty. the will and determination not to lose. along with being a little cocky, kinda like being angry that "the other team thinks they deserve to be on the field with us" attitude.
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Post by ampipebulldog on Mar 11, 2010 18:55:13 GMT -6
1. Player talent levels 2. Mastery of Fundamentals 3. Age- kids at upper end of age bracket
3 out of last 4 years with a championship. Ages 9-12 - 20 teams in each division.
Jimmies and Joes with top talent rule the gridiron, the older the better, and with a firm grasp of fundamentals = trophy.
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Post by ampipebulldog on Mar 17, 2010 20:50:25 GMT -6
Reading Dave's newsletter lets me know I am wrong; and there is nothing wrong with chemistry and character, (as a matter of fact its my favorite thing) but to answer his question, I will stick to my top 3 and continue the W's.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 18, 2010 7:37:25 GMT -6
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and are shaped by their personal experiences which will be different for many. Glad you are reading the newsletter though In the clinics Ive done, weve probably polled over 1000 people, Character and Chemistry have been the clear winner, the consensus of the larger group. The results arent perfect, the sample may be off a bit, youth coaches that attend clinics are in the minority. I find they are often times the best, most aggressive and most open minded coaches in their respective leagues compard to those that dont bother to attend. In my 20+ seasons with the last 14 going this route with a 95% retention rate and 121-17 record in 4 different leagues- my personal experiences have been my best chemistry and character teams have been my championship teams. Talent levels were maybe 5th on the list. Seen so many talented opposition teams with simple awful records and execution. Where we play the "one man teams" usually don't fare very well. Im thankful for that because I can affect team chemistry and character to a greater degree in a shorter time period than I can change a 5.6 fourty kid to a 4.8 fourty kid (youth football)
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 18, 2010 8:30:34 GMT -6
Once again DC is right on the mark. Every once in awhile we can be blessed with a great player. I would rather be blessed with a great team. AT the Nationals this year, there was no one man teams that were successfull. I have also seen teams with great talent across the board, that didn't have any chemistry or character. They would be successful against the lesser opponents, but lose when faced with a team that had character. Here is the thing to look at; have you as a coach been successfull at different levels with different kids. I always admire the coaches who stay at one age and each year take a new group and bring out their best. Some coaches start with one group and move up with them every year. I understand this is usually because they are coaching their child. However, the difficult job of teaching character to a new group is a true test of coaching.
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Post by ojowens411 on Mar 18, 2010 9:58:16 GMT -6
"I always admire the coaches who stay at one age and each year take a new group and bring out their best." Coach, I will agree with you on the point that it's impressive. I've had the privilege to admire a couple of coaches in my area that consistently do that, from afar. But the question I pose is: What does that do for the children? What I mean is this - unless you are in a program that has a standard O and D that they run across all age groups, then essentially the children will have to get used to a new "system" every single year. To use my organization for an example. We have the 4&5's play together, but from age 6 through 10 they are all on separate teams. We then bring the 11 and 12's together. So a child that starts at 4 and finishes in our program COULD end up with as many as 6 different coaches and therefore "systems" before going on to middle school. Now our middle schools are almost mirrors of the high schools, so basically as long as a child doesn't move or redistricting doesn't happen, then from grades 7-12 the same child would have only had to learn, and therefore potentially master, one philosophy. I personally believe that a child is better off with one rec coaching system as long as it's beneficial to the program. Just a thought.
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 18, 2010 11:20:22 GMT -6
I guess I have spoiled by being a part of some very successful programs. When I first started coaching our program ran similar O's & D's. Each team from 7-19 had 4 basic plays on O, and was uniform in how the D's were called. Each child " benefitted" by being exposed to different coaches and styles. Every year the NYC all city team was loaded with players from our program. We also had a rule no father could coach his son. One year that produced quite a problem. My cousin had been coaching the bantam team(14 YO's) for over 8 years and his son was now going to be a player on that team. We actually had to have several board meetings to make a special case for this. Point being, most times what I see is fathers moving with thier child, coaching staffs moving with their children. We all know the some of the nightmares this can create. Doesn't a child "benefit" each year by having a new teacher in school? Yes, some years if the teacher isn't up to standards it can be difficult, but that too can benifit a child. Too often in youth football I hear the excuse they can't do that. My responce is always, Is it that they can't do that or you can't coach it? What needs to be examined is what is the ultimate goal of youth football. Some say to prepare kids for the next level. Well lil Johnnie who is 14 and weighs 85 lbs will probally never play school ball. So does that mean we have nothing to offer Johnnie? My goal has always been to prepare all my players for life. I have been lucky enough to coach 4 players that have made it to NFL in 32 years. They aren't the ones that I am most proud of. Sometimes we as coaches really need to see the big picture. What we say or do effects every player.
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Post by coachmsl on Mar 18, 2010 13:36:39 GMT -6
I guess I have spoiled by being a part of some very successful programs. When I first started coaching our program ran similar O's & D's. Each team from 7-19 had 4 basic plays on O, and was uniform in how the D's were called. Each child " benefitted" by being exposed to different coaches and styles. Every year the NYC all city team was loaded with players from our program. We also had a rule no father could coach his son. One year that produced quite a problem. My cousin had been coaching the bantam team(14 YO's) for over 8 years and his son was now going to be a player on that team. We actually had to have several board meetings to make a special case for this. Point being, most times what I see is fathers moving with thier child, coaching staffs moving with their children. We all know the some of the nightmares this can create. Doesn't a child "benefit" each year by having a new teacher in school? Yes, some years if the teacher isn't up to standards it can be difficult, but that too can benifit a child. Too often in youth football I hear the excuse they can't do that. My responce is always, Is it that they can't do that or you can't coach it? What needs to be examined is what is the ultimate goal of youth football. Some say to prepare kids for the next level. Well lil Johnnie who is 14 and weighs 85 lbs will probally never play school ball. So does that mean we have nothing to offer Johnnie? My goal has always been to prepare all my players for life. I have been lucky enough to coach 4 players that have made it to NFL in 32 years. They aren't the ones that I am most proud of. Sometimes we as coaches really need to see the big picture. What we say or do effects every player. Nice post.
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 18, 2010 13:43:20 GMT -6
I had no intention of hijacking the post. I do realize the two rants have little or nothing to do with DC's original post. DC from my readings here has earned my respect and admiration so I hope I have offended no one. Guys like DC & Coach Doug are the types of coaches we need in youth football or just football in general. Once again I get very passionate about coaching and am glad that here I can be plain honest.
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Post by ojowens411 on Mar 19, 2010 6:53:42 GMT -6
mhcoach, That was a great post, and I appreciate your insight. At your program it sounds like it really works. I was just adding an opinion about what I see around me. I've only been coaching for 6 years and only 4 as a HC, so your experiences after 32 years are far more greater than mine and I respect that. But with that being said, you are/were in a program that ran similar concepts and therefore the kids are just enhancing what they learned the year before, and I think those situations are great. BUT we can't just generally put a blanket on the entire youth football situation and say because of "daddy ball" and 85 pound 14 year olds, that every year the child should have a different coach each year. I used to be a big advocate of the theory that, "if my child or any child is only coached by me, then they'll only know what I know." This is very true, but as coaches then it's our responsibility to step our game up, right? We work on-line and pay to attend clinics. We swap ideas with other coaches and watch hours of football...not just as a fan, but actually trying to be better at our craft, so that we can deliver a better learning experience to our children. I understand what you mean about the teacher analogy, but I still think that is only beneficial to your program and programs like yours. In my few years of coaching, I'll watch games before and after mine and I haven't too often seen our opposing program with any 2 teams running similar offenses or defenses. So, although a child will have a different teacher from k-12, the core subjects don't change. They will still have math, english, and social studies. They will just be advanced versions each year. So couldn't it be the same for the coach? I don't teach my boys exact same thing year after year. The concept stays the same, but there's a progression. I try to expand them a little more each season. But we surely wouldn't expect our kids to go from Algebra 1 to AP Calc the next year, and then back to Algebra 2 then jump to Trig. But this is exactly what COULD happen in a program that doesn't run a standard across the board system. Coach Johnny may be a great...the parents and kids love him, but he may not be pushing the envelope on the 10 y/o team like coach Jack was on the 9's, but Johnny is the 10 y/o coach. That's his spot...he's been with the park for x amount of years. How does that work? Do we fire Johnny who's a volunteer? He may be successful in his own right, but coach Jack has his boys ready to go to another level that maybe Johnny doesn't teach. What happens to Jack's kids when they go to Johnny next season. At our program we have a few dads that coach their son and there are some of us that don't. But how many youth sport coaches do you know that are involved in a program that don't have either a son player or daughter cheerleader? This would also include the ones whose children were in the program at one time or another. I would feel comfortable stating that probably 66% or more the youth coaches have personal interest in the team or program outside of just a passion for the game. I feel that a lot of youth programs run by dads being out there. So although I'm not a fan of "daddy ball", I am a fan of dads coaching...who else is going to do it? If you don't want them coaching their son, that's cool, but they need to be in the program. Me personally, I love coaching, and when my son moves on to middle school...I will still have my basketball and football teams. I am fully invested in teaching the game to children, but I probably would have never got involved if my son didn't play. I'd be too busy taking him to the playground instead of practice.
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 19, 2010 9:53:38 GMT -6
Points well taken. What the basic question becomes is what type of orginaztion are you at now. When I moved to Charlotte,NC my job no longer allowed me to ccoach HS. Once again luck seems to befallen me. The first program I volunteered my services at was close to where I was living at the time. I lasted there exactly one practice. The coaches were nice enough guys who knew little or nothing about football or coaching, and had little interest in learning. The main thing I kept hearing at the one practice was these kids are 13 and can't do that. They were teaching poor tackling and poor blocking. It has always been a rule of mine never to correct or critize a coach on the field. So after practice was done I began to ask questions. Realizing just what was going on I politely said sorry but this isn't going to work.
A few days later I walked up upon another team practicing perhaps 4 miles away. It just so happened that this was a brand new program. Of course walking in blind I was met with a critical eye. After my references were checked I began coaching. This team was orginized and actually had a plan. The coaches had put time in learning to coach, and learning how to run a practice. As time progressed and my coaching abilities became apparent, my voice was heard and heeded. Here it wasn't about ego or bravado, it was about the kids. There is about 4 or 5 experienced coaches in our program, some of the others have been coaching perhaps 5 years. We work together as a whole. Yes everyone coaches their own team but we all help where we can. Our teams range from 7-14, in 6 age classes. 5 of those compete to go to the Nationals(AYF).
In this situation we do have fathers coaching sons. I realize just how lucky I was in coaching at my first program. I also realize there is no way that would work at most programs. Coaches like yourself who take the time effort to learn our craft aren't the problem. Having never been exposed to "Daddy Ball" untill I moved to FLorida it was a culture shock for me. My disdain is from what I saw there. Every QB was a coaches son, coaches making statements like, "I don't care if we win as long as my son starts!". One father slapping his son for throwing an INT in 7 on 7. The list is endless, and really soured me on youth football in general. When I became involved here in Charlotte it was quite a breath of fresh air.
The problem as I see it, arises when Coaches think they know it all, or refuse to admit there is another way to do things. The major thing I have learned in 32 years is that I know very little, and what I do know someone else taught me. We need to keep an open mind and realize when people are trying to help. I don't mean the father who draws a play on a cocktail napkin, but coaches with some experience. Personally I am always looking to build a better mouse trap.
The great thing here is Dave started this post to see what championships do and believe. It has led to some great dialogue. Unfortunately the guys that really need this will never bother to work at it.
Good Luck! Thank you for interest and I hope we can have such good exchange of idea's in future posts.
Joe
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Post by ojowens411 on Mar 19, 2010 13:27:42 GMT -6
mhcoach,
thank you for your input...all of your points are very well taken
On to the original topic:
Some of these were too close to call as far as priority...but with a gun to my head...here is my list.
1 - Team Chemistry 2 - Player talent levels 3 - Scheme 4 - fundamentals 5 - lack of key injuries 6 - luck 7 - practice priorities 8 - size 9 - player development 10 - parental support 11 - game day management 12 - equipment/facilities 13 - age (I coach individual age groups)
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 19, 2010 14:02:47 GMT -6
OJ
Here's the point to all of this. I believe that regardless of talent levels, fundamentals play a huge role in championship teams. Too often it is easy to say this team or that team is more talented then mine. Football is the ultimate work ethic sport. Baseball a great pitcher dominates the game. Basketball a great player can take over the game. So on & so on. In football we can often take a lesser talented team and win. We have dominated our league and region for the last 3 years. Often we look across the field and marvel at some the talented players on a team that has no fundamentals. My coaches and I would often say we could coach that team to a championship. When I was in Brooklyn, I won 9 state championships in 11 years. One year we lost on the last play of the game where the ball was tipped 4 times. Every year at the start of practice I would quote " God didn't put all the talented players in Marine Park". Every year we were in the State championship. Yes we had good schemes and some luck, but the key to our success was blocking and tackling. No matter what level I have coached at( 9- Semi pro) that is the key to winning. Some years we all have great players, some years not. Yes, everything else you mention is a factor, and chemistry is still #1; but if you spend the time and effort on fundamentals you will be successfull. Georgia is known for great football, and I'm sure there is much passion in your area. Success will breed success, and the passion you are showing is great for the kids and your program. Good luck!
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