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Post by dubber on Feb 24, 2010 22:55:49 GMT -6
So I'm watching an NFL network documentary on the 99' Rams.
I have all the respect in the world for Dick Vermil, but it seems like he is wearing his assistants and players out during that Super Bowl versus the Titans.
It's like a group of guys are getting ready to build a deck, and one guy keeps asking if anyone is getting too hot, what they want for dinner, etc..........and the rest of the guys just want to freaking shut up and build the deck.
On gameday, the last thing I wanted to hear was my coach ramble.
He makes it a point to talk to all his assistants during pregame (he is an emotional guy), and you can clearly read Mike Martz body language as "leave me the heck alone I'm about to call the most important game in my life".
Vermil is also so concerned with Warner's lowering throwing motion and the hits he is taking that he talks to him everytime he comes to the sidelines, to which Warner finally replies: "I'm sick of talking about it, just let me go play."
And it is that sentiment, which I think players need/embrace.
Whether it is constantly asking questions, or yelling instructions (watch reverse, draw, screen, and slant!)..........it seems counter-productive, especially on game day.
I mean, aren't coaches really just trying to pacify their own adrenaline and anxiety by talking all the time (not really saying anything)?
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Post by captain31 on Feb 24, 2010 23:10:19 GMT -6
I think to a certain extent you are correct. John Wooden never did much talking or coaching during games. He said he did his coaching in practice and let the players play during games. I understand this point of view, but I am not about to try it anytime soon.
I just finished reading When the Game Stands Tall about De La Salle HS and it said one of Coach Ladouceur's dreams was to take his assistants to the bleachers and watch his team play on their own. I suppose it would the ultimate mark of a well-coached team if they could continue to function without coaches. This is similar to Wooden's philosophy and I think related to what you are asking about.
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Post by julien on Feb 25, 2010 0:20:19 GMT -6
I mean, aren't coaches really just trying to pacify their own adrenaline and anxiety by talking all the time (not really saying anything)? I totally agree.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 25, 2010 7:15:44 GMT -6
I think if Vermeil coached like that all year than you can't really fault the guy. However, if he all of a sudden took that approach in the Super Bowl then maybe it wasn't the best approach.
There are some coaches who over coach on gameday. I think we probably all have at some point. Bear Bryant said he made a rule for himself that no player could do anything wrong on game day. I think that is the right approach. I try not to ever yell at or get on a kid during a game, but I will still communicate with them.
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Post by dubber on Feb 25, 2010 7:45:38 GMT -6
Bear Bryant said he made a rule for himself that no player could do anything wrong on game day. Obviously, throw me in this boat........ Now, I think communication is important between staff members and players on gameday. However, for it to be considered communication, it must be a transfer of something of value for both parties. Our varsity OC wants to talk to our QB after each possession, but their exchange is "what's working, what do you see, drill that seam a little sooner, etc." (we do that same thing on JV). In short, as this organic game changes, we are adapting together. However, the adjustment of fundamentals, or non-important fodder ("buckle up for the 4th quarter, put the seat belt on, sonny, lock and load, hell this feels like 'Nam") is counter-productive. I will offer one caveat: I will pick one important fundamental we teach at a certain position and yell for a player to do that. I'm not really trying to correct them, I just want them to focus on X so their muscle memory will take over. For OL I may say, "Hey, just worry about getting a great punch on your man", the idea being thinking about and executing a great punch will lead his uncouncious muscle memory to take over and he will do the 12 other things he need to do after a great punch. It's like telling a QB who's struggling: "Just focus on your footwork." But again, that is a transfer of value. But when our intent is a vain attempt at exerting control (IE, affect the outcome) over something we cannot control, we actually end up hurting our team. Gotta find a different way to fight those helpless feelings.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 25, 2010 8:13:24 GMT -6
Fortunately for me, my first year as a coach, a vet told that when you yell something from the sideline onto the field during the course of a game, all the player hears is:
- crowd noise - loud speakers/PA announcer - the wind blowing - rain hitting his helmet - his heart beat
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Post by mariner42 on Feb 25, 2010 9:47:31 GMT -6
Coached a deaf OLB at the freshman level one year. He taught me a ton about what kind of adjustments I could make and when. You're right, you cannot just shout technique to them because they won't get it or they'll over think it. Just let them play, focus on something important and easy to comprehend (for him it was his stance), and hopefully you've trained them well enough to get good results.
I like that idea with Coach Lad and taking the assistants to the stands. I'm sure the parents would be more well-behaved!
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Post by superpower on Feb 25, 2010 10:01:22 GMT -6
I find that the more experienced I become (Yes, that really means "As I grow older."), the less talking I do during the games. We coach the crap out of 'em all week long and want them to sense our confidence on game day. I think our team reflects that quiet confidence on game day.
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Post by brophy on Feb 25, 2010 11:48:39 GMT -6
Whether it is constantly asking questions, or yelling instructions (watch reverse, draw, screen, and slant!)..........it seems counter-productive, especially on game day.
I mean, aren't coaches really just trying to pacify their own adrenaline and anxiety by talking all the time (not really saying anything)? good point about player communication....and I believe tog has made several great stumps over the years on here about verbiage concission / effective use of buzzwords to get your message across. "Zero" is a perfect example - one word, and you know exactly what the coach is referring to and what needs to change. Also, further exploring this is, during practice and during games. In practices, don't we want to control everything to the point where we ARE wearing the kids down? To the point that they are mentally fatigued so they truly have to focus on what exactly is going on? On Game Night, what really is there left to say? What did you do during the week? All that really needs to be said is reminders of cues you already rehearsed. Coaches not screaming at their players on game night will likely only upset the people in the stands ("those guys aren't doing anything! They're supposed to be yelling at those kids...they don't care") So I'm watching an NFL network documentary on the 99' Rams. I seem to remember Vermeil holding a Master's in Psychology (am I too lazy for Wiki? yes), so do you think he did this on purpose or he was just neurotic?
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bgj
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154
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Post by bgj on Feb 25, 2010 17:44:51 GMT -6
I agree with the posts mentioning coaching during the week vs. coaching on game day. In my experience the guy yelling and "coaching up" the players on game day didn't do his job during the week.
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Post by dubber on Feb 25, 2010 20:44:54 GMT -6
I seem to remember Vermeil holding a Master's in Psychology I couldn't find that on my wiki search...... He has a master's in physical education. Based off what I saw, he was just a ball of nervous energy. He even said during the interview that he would sometimes talk into the headset, even though he wasn't on the same line as Mike Martz, just so he could verbalize what he was think aloud....
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Post by wingtol on Feb 25, 2010 20:51:26 GMT -6
I seem to remember Vermeil holding a Master's in Psychology I couldn't find that on my wiki search...... He has a master's in physical education. Based off what I saw, he was just a ball of nervous energy. He even said during the interview that he would sometimes talk into the headset, even though he wasn't on the same line as Mike Martz, just so he could verbalize what he was think aloud.... You are talking about a guy who had a nervous break down from coaching in the NFL, just remember that.
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
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Post by hoosier on Feb 25, 2010 21:22:52 GMT -6
i read an article recently (if i find it ill post it here) about "why players choke" and the gist of it being because they think too much about what they are doing. they get out of their natural reactions somehow and trigger something in their brain that takes them back to when they first learned a skill (catching a ball for example) and are essentially playing with a brain that hasnt caught said ball since they were 9 (or whenever they learned to do it).
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Post by 19delta on Feb 26, 2010 3:01:42 GMT -6
Coaches not screaming at their players on game night will likely only upset the people in the stands ("those guys aren't doing anything! They're supposed to be yelling at those kids...they don't care") Isn't that the truth? When I first got into coaching, I was a complete horse's a$$ on the sideline until I realized that I was carrying on more for the benefit of the people in the stands than for the players.
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Post by coachdag on Feb 27, 2010 15:29:06 GMT -6
Isn't that the truth? When I first got into coaching, I was a complete horse's a$$ on the sideline until I realized that I was carrying on more for the benefit of the people in the stands than for the players. So true, in one of our JV games we had parents yelling at us from the stands that we weren't "coaching properly" in a particularly bad game where nothing was going right and we were just throwing our hands in the air trying to figure out what to do. I've seen coaches yell and scream at players during a game and afterwards and you can see the look on their players that they are just plain tuning out the coach. It's amazing what happens when you remain calm throughout a bad stretch of game and let your players right the ship. Think there have only been two games where our coaches lit into players and that was simply because it was something they needed to snap out of the funk they were in. It's all about timing. Our HC leaves us to coach our game and will come over if there are questions about certain plays or a concern about something he sees. Other than that, we are left alone to coach and our players are left alone to play.
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