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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 11:03:58 GMT -6
Post by Defcord on Feb 22, 2010 11:03:58 GMT -6
I decided to coach wrestling this year because my AD and the head coach both asked me to. I do not know much about the sport, but I assume like football to be successful a wrestler must work hard and be committed to his team.
Well our sectionals were about a month ago. We had five kids get through, which we were happy about. Afterward we asked to any varsity wrestler not in a spring sport to continue to practice to help prepare those moving on to regionals. We told kids that if we did not release them and they chose not to come they could possibly lose their varsity letter.
One kid...great kid in the classroom 4.0 student...decided that since he lost his season was done and didn't show up for three weeks, as we had wrestlers advance to semi state.
At equipment turn in he showed up and I asked him why he decided what he did. I also said that he made a very selfish decision and that he should have thought about the team. He just said that his season was over so it didn't matter. I did not yell. I did not cuss. But I was brutally honest in letting him know that the team should have come first. I also pointed out that when our football team advanced to the sectional finals every varsity player had to continue to practice.
Well now I have a meeting with our head coach (who is on the same page as me), our AD, our Principal, and the kid's dad. His dad said it was unfair to address him in front of the team and is not happy about it.
I do not know how the meeting will go but..."Is it fair to ask wrestlers who lost at sectional to stay around and help their teammates prepare?" or am I crazy?
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 11:10:13 GMT -6
Post by blb on Feb 22, 2010 11:10:13 GMT -6
Key word in your question was "ask(ed)" him to keep coming to practice and help those advancing - you gave him the option. He declined.
Wrestling is a much more individual sport than football even though team scores are kept. I'm not all that surprised by kid's attitude in this situation.
Good luck with your administration and kid's dad. It'll probably blow over but may have to grit your teeth for the short term.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 11:24:03 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Feb 22, 2010 11:24:03 GMT -6
Another great example of what I stated in the thread "what should I be doing now". This is a kid who excels in the classroom, and has never been "called out" for any shortcoming. He probably doesn't handle mistakes/shortcomings well, because frankly..they don't happen often. Now when it happens...daddy is not happy.
How much experience do you , the AD, the and the header have in developing young men? Harp on that. I CONSTANTLY tell parents that school is an IMPROVING ground..not a PROVING ground, and not teaching kids how to deal with failure is failure to teach the kids. Parents often forget that you have dealt with a helluva lot more kids than they have...and you know the actions/reactions of situations.
Here the kid "failed" in that he made a selfish choice...was called out on his failure publicly and he does not know how to handle it. Of course, one could argue that you guys failed too, if this wasnt all announced BEFORE one joined the wrestling team.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 11:48:08 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Feb 22, 2010 11:48:08 GMT -6
It all depends on wheather you asked him or told him to still participate in practice. If you ASKED him then you really cannot hold him accountable for declining. Yea it was in a way selfish, but if not mandatory then there isn't much you can do.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 11:52:18 GMT -6
Post by coachbdud on Feb 22, 2010 11:52:18 GMT -6
i think your being unreasonable... we have a very good wrestling program at our school and our HC has been the HC of both the last 5 years...
I have never heard of making a wrestler stay to practice when his season is done... Wrestling is a team and individual sport... since the team phase of the season is over i dont see the need for him to continue to practice...
In football of course every kid continued to practice, they were on the team, they were still playing their season wasnt done... but for this kid, he will never wrestla nother match again so why would he put up with an additional few weeks of practice, if there is ZERO benfit to him.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:04:57 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Feb 22, 2010 12:04:57 GMT -6
i think your being unreasonable... we have a very good wrestling program at our school and our HC has been the HC of both the last 5 years... I have never heard of making a wrestler stay to practice when his season is done... Wrestling is a team and individual sport... since the team phase of the season is over i dont see the need for him to continue to practice... In football of course every kid continued to practice, they were on the team, they were still playing their season wasnt done... but for this kid, he will never wrestla nother match again so why would he put up with an additional few weeks of practice, if there is ZERO benfit to him. Agreed...this kid is a senior. If he was an underclassman he would benefit from it, but since he will never wrestle again I really don't think it's apropriate to ask him to stay. In football everyone atleast has a chance/possibility to play in the playoffs even if it's the worst player on the team. In wrestling the kid is done. |
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:06:07 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Feb 22, 2010 12:06:07 GMT -6
I have zero wrestling background.. my question is...how do the kids practice if nobody else comparable is there to practice against?
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:07:07 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Feb 22, 2010 12:07:07 GMT -6
Also what is the point of the meeting? If he's a senior and done with his wrestling career, what consequences are there for this student?
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:24:29 GMT -6
Post by olinecoach61 on Feb 22, 2010 12:24:29 GMT -6
If his season is over then he should be able to go home. I don't see the issue. Several players are able to pursue individual honors, thats their deal. In football if your QB and TB made an all star team would you make the rest to the kids practice so they were sharp for their own individual honors?
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:33:32 GMT -6
Post by Defcord on Feb 22, 2010 12:33:32 GMT -6
The kid is not a senior...I am sorry if I implied that. He is a sophomore. He has expressed his desire to be a captain someday that is why I was most disappointed I think.
I can kind of see the other side of the argument. However, I disagree with the comparison to the all-star game...
To me it would be like sending your scout team home after the regular season. True your scout team has a shot to get in, but let's be realistic we know most of them will not. We truly wanted the kid around to help prepare his teammates.
Thanks for all of the advice this far. It helps to hear the perspectives.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:39:28 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Feb 22, 2010 12:39:28 GMT -6
One thing I would do would be to call other wrestling coaches in your area and see if they have a written policy in place. I would advise to put something on paper so the wrestlers know ahead of time what their expected to do.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:42:06 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Feb 22, 2010 12:42:06 GMT -6
First--I don't see anywhere where it states the kid is a senior...am I just missing that part?
Second--couldn't one argue that since he is not "needed" the coaches could have saved time and effort just working with the wrestlers who had the greatest likelihood of making it the furthest?
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 12:54:59 GMT -6
Post by Defcord on Feb 22, 2010 12:54:59 GMT -6
I agree that there was a lack of communication with the kid and that is the coaching staff's, myself included, fault. We should have put what we expected in writing just as we did our dress code, attendance code, and classroom expectations.
I am going to apologize to the kid and the parent because I never wanted to hurt his feeling. My intention was to let the kid know that his coaches and teammates were counting on him. I do not have hard feelings towards the kid and I will express this to the parent and the kid.
I guess my train of thought came from my background. We were pretty much required to be at everything in season and out. Thanks for the help from everyone.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 13:36:19 GMT -6
Post by John Knight on Feb 22, 2010 13:36:19 GMT -6
Fair? I have always told my players and my own kids that the fair is the place with ferris wheels and livestock, there is no fair on the football field!
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 14:18:01 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Feb 22, 2010 14:18:01 GMT -6
Fair? I have always told my players and my own kids that the fair is the place with ferris wheels and livestock, there is no fair on the football field! What about on a wrestling mat?  |
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 15:38:29 GMT -6
Post by bleefb on Feb 22, 2010 15:38:29 GMT -6
Individual sports are a whole different animal, it's why I don't coach them. I helped a buddy coach Track years ago and the "Me First" attitudes drove me crazy, and my "Team Comes First" attitude drove the kids crazy. Never again, but that's just me. I know many of you coach both sports.  |
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 15:54:08 GMT -6
Post by jjkuenzel on Feb 22, 2010 15:54:08 GMT -6
I would come at it from the perspective of that first you were wrong for "expecting" him to be there when you had initially asked. Say that it was a miscommunication and that it was your fault.
Secondly, go into how you feel that he is better than that and that you have a higher expectation level for him. Make it clear that your disappointment with him comes from knowing that he can do more and that he can be better.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 16:17:57 GMT -6
Post by champ93 on Feb 22, 2010 16:17:57 GMT -6
As a former wrestler I wanted to keep practicing with my teammates who made it further than I. It was actually very enjoyable to wrestle with a full belly despite the reality the season was over. But that was me. Sounds like this kid doesn't get that --yet.
Sometimes kids don't know what they don't know.
I've had a similar talk before with a kid or two and 99% percent of the time, they don't realize their behavior is being interpreted as being selfish. If life has come easy for this kid so far, your pointing it out to him may have been more than he and dad can take. Unfortunate learning experience for all of you, but one that's not irreparable.
By the way, the kid needs to be present at that meeting.
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Fair???
Feb 22, 2010 17:05:29 GMT -6
Post by Defcord on Feb 22, 2010 17:05:29 GMT -6
Gentlemen thanks for all of the perspective.
We had the meeting. It went as smooth as possible. The kid just said he knew he should have been there and that after I got on him he was upset because I addressed him in front of some of the team. I apologized for him being upset. He apologized for not coming.
Our AD played mediator and said he was glad it was all worked out.
The head wrestling coach just said he expects more of the kid.
Our principal told the kid to learn a life lesson from the situation because coaches are going to get on him again and life is tough. (Great support!)
The dad said that he was sorry for making the meeting too formal he would have rather just sat down with the coaching staff and figured out what the deal was but he didn't know the best approach.
Thanks again!
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Fair???
Feb 23, 2010 7:53:45 GMT -6
Post by coachwoodall on Feb 23, 2010 7:53:45 GMT -6
Lesson Learned for All of Us:
95% of the meetings I have had with parents end up this way.
Most of the time the parent just wants to know what the heck is going on with their kid. They aren't mad. They just have no line of communication with their kid. Either the kid won't tell the whole story, or the only interaction they have is while the TV is blaring, or the kids lives with the mom, etc......
Sitting in my email box this week I had 4 request for calls/conferences over 'problem' kids in class. All 4 have been very positive and productive. (the kids walked into class asking for help, turning in work, brought their book, etc....)
1- We should strive to help the kids communicate things to their parents.
2- We should approach these 'meetings' with the attitude that it will turn out this way.
3- If the meeting does turn out to be 1 of those 5% that can get ugly, have a plan. The best one I have ever used is the broken record.
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Fair???
Feb 23, 2010 18:34:49 GMT -6
Post by coachcb on Feb 23, 2010 18:34:49 GMT -6
My biggest problem in these situations is removing myself and my emotions from the equation. It's something that I've worked hard on over the years. I strive to replace my anger with simple honesty, but honesty that doesn't necessarily involve my own personal opinions.
When I have to talk to a player about these kinds of situations, I do so one on one and I first address the fact that, for whatever reason, they've let themselves down. They haven't taken a step to better themselves. And, because they haven't bettered themselves, they haven't bettered the team and that is the ultimate let down. I don't discuss how their actions may have impacted me, personally; just themselves and their teammates.
One thing to mention, if there is a need for a hard core 'Comin' to Jesus' talk, I have another coach there to corroborate what was said. I made the mistake of not having another coach there once and paid for it.
I had a LB who had decided that he wasn't going to practice because he had a cold. Those were his exact words; "I have a cold". I pulled him aside and told him that missing practice because of a cold wasn't acceptable. I made it very clear that he'd better go get his gear on and get ready to practice, or he wasn't going to play the next game. He chose not to, I sat him on the bench. Now, the kid, nor his folks, cared for me much as was; he didn't like having to split reps between LB and TB with another player. You know; 'end of the world, my kid is a D1 athlete, blah, blah'.
To make a long story short, there was a formal meeting over it and the kid lied through his teeth. He told everyone that he gave me a doctor's note, which he didn't and he told them that I called him a p-ssy, which was flat-out false. I never even raised my voice with the kid; simply explained to him that there were going to be consequences for missing a practice under such conditions.
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