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Post by huskyskins on Feb 19, 2010 16:55:57 GMT -6
We met as a staff last night to go over changes that we thought were needed for the upcoming season.
We are an upper mid-level public school with a turnout in the high 80's freshman thru seniors. We don't two-platoon, but we do have probably five starters on each side of the ball that are one-way only due to technique, fit, or health concerns. (Defense: DE, 2 LB's, CB, SS. Offense: 2 OL, QB, RB, WR)
They are not even allowed on the depth chart for the other side of the ball. We got them covered during individual time and group because they practice with their position coaches with the underclassmen, but we can't have them run team time with the underclassmen.
Our HC doesn't want these players on the scout team during team time. Would rather get the backups some experience and not get these kids hurt by our #1's.
So, he asks us last night, what are we going to do with them for 20-30 minutes each practice during team period.
Any thoughts?
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cwood
Junior Member
Posts: 262
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Post by cwood on Feb 19, 2010 19:00:32 GMT -6
Do you have any basic drills they can do on there own. I coach the OL and during D team I send the 2 or 3 that don't participate over to the chute to work footwork or they do pass sets. Something along those lines. Give them something they have done a million times and tell them to go do it. They work at their own pace and as long as they are working I am okay with it. They get extra work and they aren't screwing around on the sideline.
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bgj
Sophomore Member
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Post by bgj on Feb 19, 2010 23:26:52 GMT -6
Couldn't they help coach the under level guys?
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 20, 2010 6:35:52 GMT -6
Please don't take this the wrong way..we are talking about HS football not the NFL..how could 2 LB's, cb and a SS and rb and a wr all varsity starters not even be a backup due to technique and fit.....get a different system.....I think it is a cop out....
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 20, 2010 9:20:53 GMT -6
Please don't take this the wrong way..we are talking about HS football not the NFL..how could 2 LB's, cb and a SS and rb and a wr all varsity starters not even be a backup due to technique and fit.....get a different system.....I think it is a cop out.... I agree 100% here. Going just based on the information provided, this dog just doesn't hunt. How can nearly half of your starting football players (10 out of 22) not be allowed on the depth chart of the other side. Absolutely NO WAY at a program of 80 kids 9-12 that a starting LB, CB SS OR RB is not the next best player at a position on the other side of the ball. Just disagree with that manner of running a program. I am all for playing as many as you can, but to say those starting LB's wouldn't be better than your 3rd string guards...or the CB not better than the third WR in..etc. Just can't possibly fathom it. Now, I do see the point of "What to do with team team" If you don't want them working on the scouts (to give others some reps). That is a different issue in my mind entirely, and this could be a problem regardless as to how you run your program. My personal opinion would be to work them on the scouts alternating with the other players but since that is off the table, i don't know what to tell you. Special teams??? 10 kids almost makes up an entire unit.... |
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Post by phantom on Feb 20, 2010 9:51:28 GMT -6
I agree with JG and 5085. I'm looking at the list:
I get not playing your QB on defense or scout team. If your TB is a stud that makes sense, too. How about the others?
You can't find another position for a DE, LBs, DB.s and WRs? OL may not be a good fit for defense but I have a hard time believing that they couldn't benefit from scout team work. It seems to me that if they're not good enough athletes to play defense then every rep would help them as OL.
What does the HC want to do with them?
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Post by blb on Feb 20, 2010 10:28:56 GMT -6
Tell the head guy, since he's put restrictions on those kids and how you can use them, to go play Flag or Air Force football with them during Team periods.
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Post by touchdowng on Feb 20, 2010 10:53:36 GMT -6
huskyskins
maybe your HC should be on here trying to figure out this dilemma.
30 minutes 3 or 4 times per week over a 10 - 15 week period. That's a lot of time those kids could be getting BETTER instead of avoiding injury (which could come on the first series of your next game anyways).
I vote they stay in bed. Share that with your header
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Post by blb on Feb 20, 2010 11:14:24 GMT -6
I'm guessing you have 30-35 varsity (juniors and seniors) players.
Take five of your best players out of each Team phase and what quality are you getting from scout squads?
If a two-way starter gets hurt or ineligible, you're going to leave these kids on the sideline and put in two who weren't good enough to start either way?
I suspect this approach could lead to some morale problems, too.
Personally just can't fathom operating that way.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 20, 2010 11:15:57 GMT -6
huskyskins maybe your HC should be on here trying to figure out this dilemma. 30 minutes 3 or 4 times per week over a 10 - 15 week period. That's a lot of time those kids could be getting BETTER instead of avoiding injury (which could come on the first series of your next game anyways). Keep in mind however, that if those kids were running scout squad plays , then that is time that OTHER kids will be sitting, doing nothing. This is practice organization, player personnel issue, and although I disagree with how their Header is handling it, I do think it is a tough situation to be in. They don't have enough players to completely two platoon, but the numbers are great enough that they aren't playing 80% of the team both ways This is one area where I think H.S football is completely unique from college and pro football. There is no good cookie cutter practice format that is best for each school. |
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Post by blb on Feb 20, 2010 11:18:14 GMT -6
Run two huddles of offensive scout teams to get "OTHER" kids involved or rotate every three-four plays.
We post list of scout teams by position each Monday. If there are two (or more) names at a position they rotate in if we are not using two huddles.
We also give our second offensive and defensive units about the same time during Team as ones.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 20, 2010 11:29:15 GMT -6
Run two huddles of offensive scout teams to get "OTHER" kids involved or rotate every three-four plays. . I think this is a great idea..especially since scout O's usually don't amount to much anyway |
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Post by touchdowng on Feb 20, 2010 11:43:22 GMT -6
We run a skills session for those kids not getting reps (these are those kids who aren't very good and definitely cannot help in giving us a look on scout teams). We focus on defensive skills during these sessions - Usually about 15-20 kids, grade 9 through 10, a few 11th and never a 12th.
What does that leave you? The better backups to provide a look.
Our #1 QB will alternate with the #2 or #3 QB on scout offense. Put a red jersey on him and that's it. Never had a problem with my #1 QB helping our D get better. Sounds like the HC in question is gun shy. We might pull the #1 if it's steady diet of option from the Scout O but that's the only adjust we'll make.
If this is sincerely a unique situation where you have 10 of your 22 positions players allowed to only focus on one side of the ball, there has to be a way for them to help with team time. Huskyskins didn't metion how many coaches are involved with team time and how many coaches would be available for pullout sessions. We use a format like this during kicking game. Some guys just aren't involved in a certain phase and we'll create "pull-outs" and work with those kids on a specific phase of offense or defense.
I hate ANYBODY standing around and this helps with that.
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Post by highball007 on Feb 20, 2010 12:21:45 GMT -6
I say make them do the scout team or go fight for a starting spot on the other side of the ball! Even our starting QB practices on the D side because he may have to go in to play FS for us.
Our Scout team is made up of the next best offense possible. When it is #1 D we have all 1st team Offense that is not on the #1 D playing scout team to give the best look possible, more realistic game prep for Friday night! We will have the JV O go against the #1 D for some situations but not very often.
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Post by op4shadow on Feb 21, 2010 11:06:15 GMT -6
i pretty much agree with everyone else in that this is rediculous...but i'll play along with you. looks to me like you've got enough out of those starters to do some pass work. DE, 2 LB's, corner, SS vs QB, 2 OL, RB, WR. of coarse, i have no idea if your offense would fit with this, but you could line your oline up as G and T, have a DE ILB and OLB. right there your o lineman can work on picking up the blitz, and protecting against hard outside rush. mean while, your WR plays against the CB and SS running routes. QB gets to work on coverage recognition reading the CB's technique, reading blitz from LB's pre snap, and all the other pre snap reads. the RB will be able to work on pass protection, and getting into routes from the backfield. they can do this on their own, or designate one coach to work with them.
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Post by kcbazooka on Feb 21, 2010 11:43:53 GMT -6
Your QB and WR can use extra time perfecting routes - add SS + CB to run routes vs man coverage. - I would always have a coach with them tho.
Are any of the "stars" specialists? - I could see using that time for kicking, snapping, holding, return time. If they are that good that they are not considered for time on O or D they might be game breakers on special teams...
I don't know if its plausible - but maybe these kids could be given a 15 minute period where they help coach freshmen with their coaches. By having to coach they often learn a lot about their own position.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 21, 2010 13:17:26 GMT -6
Possible suggestion, go thud on bags with the starting offense when scout O is on the field. Then go skelly D when scout D is on the field. Difficult situation to say the least.
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Post by calicoachh on Feb 21, 2010 23:27:08 GMT -6
during scout O we try to take the starting qb and receivers and go work on a specific technique (maybe goalline fade) that way they are not standing around being distractions. it is a productive use of time and coaches.
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Post by huskyskins on Feb 24, 2010 20:31:03 GMT -6
Thank you for the feedback.
Just to give you all some more info to base your opinion...We run Pistol Spread option. Our QB doesn't take snaps from UC, so he's not allowed on scout. Our DE has had 3 shoulder surgeries. Rather not lose an all-leaguer trying to zone block with a bum shoulder. LB's are too big to be tailbacks, too small to be OL (wouldn't take being OL serious anyway, and I don't need that headache.)
Mostly, almost all these kids were, or are potential all-league at their position, and each has a viable reason for not playing both ways. HC is very adamant that starters don't play scout. I realize this just wouldn't hapoen on some of your teams, but that's not the situation I'm in.
Finally, for example, during team offense period the JV DC will run the scout D. The HC, OC/QB coach, OL coach, WR coach, and RB coach are there to coach up their position group. During this time the Freshman are running team defense period with all the defensive pisition coaches and the freshman HC/OC.
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