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Post by Wingtman on Feb 5, 2010 9:39:49 GMT -6
Saw this on a basketball board I post on.
Whats the definition of a successful play?The debate was from a coach running his set and getting an open look counting it as success vs. getting a look and MAKING the basket.
What about in fotoball? Is it one that gains yards? Or one that gets you the look you want regardless of success.
For example:
Is a post route that the receiver is wide open and drops a successful play?
Is a run for 11 yards then a fumble a successful play?
If the Qb scrambles for 4 yards (but doesn't run X Fly Waggle Rhino Texas 960)is that successful?
Just wanted to hear some thoughts.
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Post by cc on Feb 5, 2010 9:42:10 GMT -6
Depends on your goals.
Postive yards, first down, touchdowns....
Execution as play was designed = success from coaching point of view.
QB scrambling for a 1st down = athletic success
Great run play with fumble at end = sucess thwarted by human error (but correct that problem and use the play again).
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Post by phantom on Feb 5, 2010 9:59:08 GMT -6
As a playcaller your play was a successful call if you got whaat you wanted to achieve. If you wanted to get the X receiver open and he was but dropped the pass or the QB missed the receiver then that was a successful play from your standpoint. Now, you may have to reevaluate whether your QB can make that throw or whether to throw to that receiver again but you wanted to get him open and he was. You can run that play again.
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Post by Wingtman on Feb 5, 2010 10:06:28 GMT -6
As a playcaller your play was a successful call if you got whaat you wanted to achieve. If you wanted to get the X receiver open and he was but dropped the pass or the QB missed the receiver then that was a successful play from your standpoint. Now, you may have to reevaluate whether your QB can make that throw or whether to throw to that receiver again but you wanted to get him open and he was. You can run that play again. So even though you gained no yards, the play "worked" in your mind? I really dont feel one way or another, just trying to stir some debate on this cold snowy Friday. |
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Post by phantom on Feb 5, 2010 10:20:03 GMT -6
As a playcaller your play was a successful call if you got whaat you wanted to achieve. If you wanted to get the X receiver open and he was but dropped the pass or the QB missed the receiver then that was a successful play from your standpoint. Now, you may have to reevaluate whether your QB can make that throw or whether to throw to that receiver again but you wanted to get him open and he was. You can run that play again. So even though you gained no yards, the play "worked" in your mind? I really dont feel one way or another, just trying to stir some debate on this cold snowy Friday. Sure. I can call that play again. Now suppose you call a screen that fools nobody but the runner breaks three tackles and gets a first down. Calling that one again? |
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Post by Wingtman on Feb 5, 2010 10:23:42 GMT -6
I'm not saying I dont agree with you, its more of a general statement of what counts as a successful play.
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Post by touchdowng on Feb 5, 2010 10:24:23 GMT -6
A play when all 11 guys did their job and there was a positive outcome.
This question is one where you could really split hairs if you wanted to.
You could break this down by the type of play and phase of the game.
If everyone did their job and we only get 3 yards on a 3rd and 5, that wouldn't be success in our book. However, after we punt and hold them to a 3 and out and win a little in the field positon war, the 3 yards gained doesn't look so bad anymore. In fact, it could turn out to be a positive.
Overall, we want all 11 guys performing what they're coached to do.
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Post by Wingtman on Feb 5, 2010 10:25:36 GMT -6
Ok let me try this....
The play itself from a X's and O's idea was good, but the play itself..was it a success? Yes you got the look, but you didnt get a net positive result.
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Post by realdawg on Feb 5, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -6
LOL 3.5 yards
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Post by phantom on Feb 5, 2010 10:46:00 GMT -6
Ok let me try this.... The play itself from a X's and O's idea was good, but the play itself..was it a success? Yes you got the look, but you didnt get a net positive result. A lot of this depends on what your purpose is in deciding whether a play is successful. Our job is to put the players in position to make a play. They have to execute the play. If we've chosen to go to a player who we have reason to believe can make that play consistently but he doesn't, well that happens. I'm comfortable calling that play again. If that play ends the game and we lose, I'll sleep. |
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Post by bshee83 on Feb 5, 2010 10:50:06 GMT -6
Just read this in an article yesterday. Here's how Ohio State defines a "consistent play." Simply:
1st Down = gains four yards
2nd Down = half the yardage needed for a 1st
3rd Down = get a 1st down
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Post by blb on Feb 5, 2010 10:51:34 GMT -6
When I coached basketball I told the players "I can give you a play that will get you to the basket with the ball. When you get there, YOU've got to make the lay up!"
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Post by cc on Feb 5, 2010 11:00:43 GMT -6
Part of this debate has to take into account the players ability. It might be a great playcall for the NFL or NCAA, but can teenagers or kids execute it?
Do they have the skillset or ability? Have you practiced it enough?
Maybe a Fly pass is a great call because they have 9 in the box but if you have not put the time into it to make sure the kids CAN execute it then even though strategically it's a great call from the practical sense it's horrible.
Practice makes practical.
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Post by wingnit on Feb 5, 2010 12:27:45 GMT -6
To me there's successful play call and a successful play. A successfull play call is when it's blocked or set up correctly and you either got the look you wanted or like the look you got. Regardless of the outcome it was a successful play call and you would call it again. A successful play involves execution and gaining positive yards.
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Post by dubber on Feb 5, 2010 12:35:21 GMT -6
I'm with Phantom.......a successful play fulfills it's intent.
Running IZ for a 1 yard gain is still successful, if my intent is to establish the run.
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
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Post by juice10 on Feb 5, 2010 13:29:09 GMT -6
I would believe a "successful" play would be a play in which we have all 11 on the field working together as one group. If I can get the OL to fire off make the block, backs do their job, QB get the ball and make the handoff, and the back hits the hole hard - did their job regardless the outcome. Sometimes you are just outmanned.
Defensively really no different. All 11 flying to the football, establishing their gap first, then relentless pursuit of the ball carrier.
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Post by julien on Feb 5, 2010 14:09:01 GMT -6
I'm with Phantom.......a successful play fulfills it's intent. Running IZ for a 1 yard gain is still successful, if my intent is to establish the run. I'm with phantom and dubber. Last sunday I called plays to attack the deep middle. Slot was wide open and dropped the ball... That was a good play in my mind. We score 4 plays later on the same play. |
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Feb 5, 2010 15:18:06 GMT -6
Any play that is executed correctly!!!
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Post by blb on Feb 5, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -6
When the ball carrier-receiver hands the football to the official in the end zone.
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Post by td4tc on Feb 5, 2010 21:09:05 GMT -6
does this question refer to after the play is over or before it started?
BEFORE it starts; for me a "potentially" successful play is one that changes AFTER the ball is snapped. then i don't have to out guess some smart dark side guy.eg option or triple screen or something that frees up a blocker by "reading" somebody and changes according to his response.
AFTER its over; a successful play is one where we executed to our best ability.i respect Phantom(without knowing him) because of his success at state level.he made a great point about the great play call with the guy open and then the dropped pass.as a coach gotta know when to "run it again" or maybe say QB can't make that throw and back off.biggest challenge for me , as he said, is knowing, during a game, that i have made the right call and a correctable problem occurred that f'd up the play.without film to guide me, i've got to see that it was the right call and correct the problem NOW.then call it again and it will be successful.
Then, as phantom said, i've got to recognize the "unsuccessful call" that resulted in a positive play because of athletic ability or luck only,and stay away from that one.Even though the parents are screaming for it....He probably does this great or he wouldn't have those state titles hanging
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
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Post by hoosier on Feb 5, 2010 21:57:01 GMT -6
To me there's successful play call and a successful play. A successfull play call is when it's blocked or set up correctly and you either got the look you wanted or like the look you got. Regardless of the outcome it was a successful play call and you would call it again. A successful play involves execution and gaining positive yards. this is my thinking as well to have success, you must eliminate any negative from the end result. so a 15 yard run that results in a fumble/turnover is not a successful play. but like Phantom said, if the match up and/or execution was there you can run it again. but if you call the play for a second time and the other guys stop it, then no success. to put it in more simple terms, success to me is 4 yards and no negative end result (though if you needed 10 yards and only got 4, thats different. i suppose each situation may call for "different success"). a successful play call, like has already been stated, is getting that match up and/or execution you wanted regardless of end result |
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Post by coachks on Feb 6, 2010 10:43:31 GMT -6
Touchdown.
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Post by centralilcoach on Feb 7, 2010 14:18:52 GMT -6
Along the line of phantom, will I call that play again later in the game? If my answer is yes then it was successful, no matter what the outcome was the first time it was called.
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Post by davecisar on Feb 7, 2010 14:23:47 GMT -6
Youth coach:
Each play we have a different goal for
Our base off tackle play we want 80% + of our carries to get 6+ yards.
Im not sure YPC is a good indicator: you run a play 10 times, 9 times you go for 0 yards 1 time you go for 99 yards, the YPC is 9.9 and looks good etc
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 7, 2010 15:52:00 GMT -6
Saw this on a basketball board I post on. Whats the definition of a successful play?The debate was from a coach running his set and getting an open look counting it as success vs. getting a look and MAKING the basket. What about in fotoball? Is it one that gains yards? Or one that gets you the look you want regardless of success. For example: Is a post route that the receiver is wide open and drops a successful play? Is a run for 11 yards then a fumble a successful play? If the Qb scrambles for 4 yards (but doesn't run X Fly Waggle Rhino Texas 960)is that successful? Just wanted to hear some thoughts. I don't think this works particularly well for football. In basketball, every play is an opportunity to school. While technically true in football, we all know this isn't really the case. So that makes the definition of success MUCH easier in basketball. Getting "a good look" greatly increases the chance of scoring. I don't buy the "got the guy open so it was successful" part of football. |
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