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Post by 19delta on Feb 4, 2010 18:48:34 GMT -6
Here's the situation...
We are allotted 8 full stipends for the coaching staff.
Staff will be organized like this:
Varsity:
Head Coach/DC
OC
OL/DL coach
Soph:
Soph Head Coach/OC
Soph Assistant/DC
Soph Assistant/Get Back coach
Freshman:
Freshman head coach
Freshman assistant (currently open)
Here's the problem...
I just interviewed a guy tonight who really sounded good...lots of experience and specializes in defense (we weren't very good on defense last year) and has been a DC before. I can guarantee that the guy knows more than I do (not really saying that much! ;D). I think he would be a heck of a good coach.
Problem is that I only have one full stipend available. If I hire this guy and he ends up being our varsity DC, I don't have a stipend available for an assistant freshman coach.
The 3rd sophomore coach we have is a really good guy...hard worker, does a lot of the dirty work, scouts for us. Problem is that he really doesn't know much about football and the kids don't take him seriously. Like I said...he tries really hard...very eager to learn and does all of the crappy jobs no one else wants to do. But, he is basically a glorified equipment manager.
How would you guys handle this? We have an opportunity to bring a guy on board who would seriously upgrade the quality of the staff but I would probably have to pull the stipend from the sophomore coach in order to do it.
I should add that the guy I interviewed tonight was willing to scout for us, coach on the freshmen level, do a lot of the dirty work. No ego at all even though he was very knowledgeable.
Have any of you guys been in a situation in which you had to take a stipend away from a guy simply because you found someone better? Again, the sophomore guy hasn't done anything wrong or really doesn't deserve to be fired....it's just that I found someone who can really help us out and the soph coach is kind of low man on the totem pole. Has anyone had that done to them?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 4, 2010 19:28:53 GMT -6
This has to be one of the harder things about being a H.S coach..on both sides. Hard to build the best possible staff because of some restrictions and hard to get some jobs because positions are already filled with coaches.
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 4, 2010 19:40:49 GMT -6
Can you pay him from a booster account? Fundraise a stipend for him?
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Post by champ93 on Feb 4, 2010 19:48:34 GMT -6
I sliced up some of my HC stipend for an assistant this year. Wife wasn't happy, but the guy was well worth it for me.
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Post by wolfden12 on Feb 4, 2010 20:00:26 GMT -6
1/2, or 3/4 contracts or fundraise independently or camp money.
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Post by dubber on Feb 4, 2010 23:26:43 GMT -6
Try to find the money, but no matter what, hire the experienced guy.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Feb 5, 2010 0:15:15 GMT -6
Could you have a coach's meeting and explain the situation, then ask if anyone will volunteer to chip in out of his own stipend, or maybe even volunteer to cover it out of yours. You've got 8 stipends, and I'm assuming that as HC you get a bigger one than the others. If you can each chip in 1/8 of your stipend that should be enough to cover him and everyone stays happy (more or less). If that doesn't work out, could you maybe do a fundraiser just to raise money to hire the guy?
I don't know what your stipends look like, but a "full stipend" is about $1500-$3000 for an assistant coach around here. It's a lot of money, but it's not THAT much for everyone to cough up when split 8 ways and possibly supplemented via additional fundraising. Maybe you could somehow "find" the money through other cutbacks in the budget...
If you can't get the money to bring him in, though... well... so many coaches on here complain about how hard it is to find and keep loyal assistants. I understand the need to bring in the best guys you can hire, but should loyalty really be 1 sided?
What if the school came to you tomorrow and said they had stumbled upon a wonderful chance to "upgrade" the HC without giving you any warning. Turns out that Bill Cowher just felt like coaching some high school ball for a year and, let's face it, you're not Bill Cowher. No hard feelings and thanks for the work you put in, but they couldn't pass this up. How would you
react?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 5, 2010 3:31:47 GMT -6
Id move the getback coach down to the freshmen level. Let him lighten the load for the overworked freshman coach. You mentioned that the older kids werent taking this guy serious anyhow, the younger guys probably would though.
Id then take that open assistant freshmen coach stipend and use it to pay the new guy. seems fairly simple to me.
This is sometimes frustrating because it might upset a good man, but you have to do whats best for the whole program. you are solving two problems at once.
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Post by realdawg on Feb 5, 2010 5:15:05 GMT -6
I agree with TDmaker. Move the hard worker guy down to the Freshman spot. Hire this guy at all costs if you believe he is a difference maker.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 5, 2010 7:33:05 GMT -6
Hire the guy.
You have an open stipend for the freshman team.
I assume they are staggered based on the level of coaching, if they are then the JV coach won't lose money if you move him down and give the new guy the freshman stipend. No?
As long as you use the 8 stipends allotted to you, does it really matter if guy getting a freshman stipend is the varsity DC? Basically it would be a paper title, so far as how the checks are cut.
You should only hire someone to your staff if he makes your staff better. Another way to put it, if you are going to replace a guy, you should be replacing him with someone who is a better coach.
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FRANK DISCUSSION WITH YOUR FRESHMAN COACH!!!!! Regardless of how this has come about, you now have it in your mind that there is room for improvement on the staff. Whether it be by additions to the staff, or whether it be by making the coaches you have better; I think you have already started down a path toward change within your staff.
Leaders aren't asked to make easy decisions. That is why they are leaders.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 5, 2010 7:37:35 GMT -6
where my buddy coaches they get 8 stipends and 12 coaches. They let them take the 8 stipends and split them evenly across the 12 coaches. Bingo |
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Post by touchdowng on Feb 5, 2010 10:07:03 GMT -6
I've had this issue come up twice in my career. We solved it the same way both times in two different school districts.
I met with my staff.
We have 6 assistant and 1 head stipends and 9 quality coaches, what should we do? (Obviously I met with my "key" coaches first)
We went to our district and asked if they could split the 7 stipends into 9 stipends without increasing the total monies. HC still had to get a little more.
They made it work.
In the 2nd district - we did the exact same thing.
Also - In both cases we ended up adding a coach or two over the summer. We run summer camps for our area youth and used some of those monies to help pay "stipends" to our volunteers.
SIDEBAR:
I intentionally keep my parents away from helping with any coaching stipend fund raising. Just don't want their hands in that cookie jar.
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Post by bdonegan on Feb 5, 2010 10:43:57 GMT -6
"I don't know the secret to success, but I damn sure know it isn't trying to please everyone.."
-Vince Lombardi
Hire the best people for the program, period. If they want to continue to work, they'll get better.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 5, 2010 14:55:10 GMT -6
I sliced up some of my HC stipend for an assistant this year. Wife wasn't happy, but the guy was well worth it for me. I might be doing that too. My rationale is I would rather win than have the extra money. The sanity of having a better season would be worth it. |
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Post by 19delta on Feb 5, 2010 20:37:36 GMT -6
Can you pay him from a booster account? Fundraise a stipend for him? yes. That is a possibility. Won't be a the equivalent of a full stipend but will at least cover gas, travel expenses, etc, etc. |
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Post by 19delta on Feb 5, 2010 20:39:21 GMT -6
where my buddy coaches they get 8 stipends and 12 coaches. They let them take the 8 stipends and split them evenly across the 12 coaches. we are only allowed to break stipends 50-50. Can't do anything other than that. |
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Post by 19delta on Feb 5, 2010 20:43:44 GMT -6
What if the school came to you tomorrow and said they had stumbled upon a wonderful chance to "upgrade" the HC without giving you any warning. Turns out that Bill Cowher just felt like coaching some high school ball for a year and, let's face it, you're not Bill Cowher. No hard feelings and thanks for the work you put in, but they couldn't pass this up. How would you react? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it.  Seriously...I've been fired, replaced, reassigned...whatever you want to call it. It's happened to me several times. Was I happy about it? Of course not. But it is what it is. That's life in the big city. |
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Post by 19delta on Feb 5, 2010 20:53:48 GMT -6
This guy wouldn't work on the freshman level. He coached with the freshman last year and it was a disaster. Granted, most of that was MY fault because I didn't put the guy in a good position to succeed, but it was a disaster nonetheless. Long story short...we were really undermanned last year and that was just where the guy ended up. The kids just ran him over and he developed a very negative and adversarial relationship with several parents.
The reason he is on the sophomore staff is because there are two other guys there with him. He doesn't go to the games on Friday because he is scouting for us. The guy really needs a lot of supervision around kids. The other delicate part of this is his brother is also on our staff and is one of our best coaches. I don't want to put him in a position where he has to choose between supporting his brother and coaching for us.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Feb 5, 2010 23:19:44 GMT -6
You're instincts are correct coach, and you know you're staff better than all of us. I've done this before also. My two cents: 1) Do not demote anyone that doesn't want to move. It will create dissention within your staff and make coaches possibly dislike the new coach, which isn't fair to him. 2) Do not ask your staff what they think you should do. Tell them what you have in mind (and what you probably will do) and see how they respond. Give them a chance to speak on it, but don't make it seem as if they are going to dictate your actions. You're the HC and they have to understand that you're going to do what's best for the program regardless of their feelings. It's about what's best for the kids. 3) Do not pay any of your coaches any less than what you paid them last year. It all sounds nice and rosey when we recite the "I'm not in this for the money" speech, but you will find coaches coming up with "family" or "going back to school" reasons on why they can't coach anymore. Keep their salary the same and don't give anyone a reason to leave. Again don't put the new coach in a tough spot that he didn't create. 4) Do not pay yourself any less than what you made last year. I'm old school and I belive like most coaches that our salary does not validate who we are or what we do in this profession, but let's keep it real, it doesn't hurt either. You probably have a family that appreciates the little money that you do make in this sport. You probably put in the most hours on your staff (coaching, recruiting, scouting, gamplanning, boosters, administration, parents, media, etc.), and you need to walk away with a sense of appreciation for your own efforts. 5) Fundraise or go to the boosters for the salary for this new coach. Be honest with him upfront. Let him know that you will make every effort to pay him fair wage. Give him a ball park figure on what you think you can do. Only you know what that might be. A few car washes and you're good to go. 6) Lastly, Hire the guy and have some fun winning football games  -Troop |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Feb 6, 2010 0:24:12 GMT -6
This guy wouldn't work on the freshman level. He coached with the freshman last year and it was a disaster. Granted, most of that was MY fault because I didn't put the guy in a good position to succeed, but it was a disaster nonetheless. Long story short...we were really undermanned last year and that was just where the guy ended up. The kids just ran him over and he developed a very negative and adversarial relationship with several parents. The reason he is on the sophomore staff is because there are two other guys there with him. He doesn't go to the games on Friday because he is scouting for us. The guy really needs a lot of supervision around kids. The other delicate part of this is his brother is also on our staff and is one of our best coaches. I don't want to put him in a position where he has to choose between supporting his brother and coaching for us. Oh... if he doesn't have the people skills to deal with parents and gets pushed around by freshmen and "needs a lot of supervision around kids," that changes my opinion of the guy quite a bit. It honestly sounds like he's more of a liability than an asset. If not for his brother, would this be an easy decision for you? Is it possible the Get Back coach would volunteer or work with a reduced stipend? Maybe you could formally pull his stipend away but let him know you'll scrape some money together or pay him something under the table for his contributions and expenses? |
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Post by 19delta on Feb 6, 2010 0:41:21 GMT -6
If not for his brother, would this be an easy decision for you? Yes. His brother is a really good young coach and he would be tough to replace. Like I said, I don't want to put him in a position in which he has to choose between coaching and his loyalty to his brother. Hopefully, we will do some fundraisers and this will all be a moot point. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 14, 2010 14:05:14 GMT -6
The 3rd sophomore coach we have is a really good guy...hard worker, does a lot of the dirty work, scouts for us. Problem is that he really doesn't know much about football and the kids don't take him seriously. Like I said...he tries really hard...very eager to learn and does all of the crappy jobs no one else wants to do. But, he is basically a glorified equipment manager.
-Guys like this are hard to come by. If he is not that big of a problem then I would keep him. It would be a loyalty thing with me. One of the best ADs I have worked with always told the head coach "Coach your coaches!" and I agree with him.
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Post by buck42 on Feb 14, 2010 17:52:15 GMT -6
I am in the same boat right now...
I have 6 assistant coaching spots...I have 10-11 coaches...problem I have is commitment. We are having a coaches meeting March 2nd and this is one of the things that I am going to discuss.
Simple logic says with 6 spots, 3 would be on O and 3 would be on D...problem is that in the 3-4 D we are going to run we really want to have an ILB and OLB coach.
I hired a new DC and my former DB coach has decided to watch his son play in college and just volunteer his time when he is available.
What I have done is basically on a value system figured out who I will pay and if they wish to split their checks that is on them. We dont get paid crap and to tell someone that they have to split their check I think is not right...I know many that have done this in the past and it has worked but I see too many issues with it...mainly in my school system I would have to pay someone and they would have to cut the other person a check.
Anyway, I have identified my "key" coaches and they will be paid...my DC, my OL, my hardest worker (JV DC) and roommate of my DC, and a PE teacher that will have CDL and be the only other teacher on staff...The final two spots will probably go to my two younger coaches that will probably be my JV OCs (again roommates and college teammates)...
My issue is that my coaches do not work at the school and can not get to school until 4.30 (we get out at 2.15) so gaging commitment is difficult right now. We lift after school but by the time we are done my coaches would just be arriving...
My suggestion is make the hire that is going to make you better....if you have said nothing tothe freshman coach about $$ then it might be a non issue. If you have, then talk with him about the situation and see if you can get the booster club to kick him some cash. If not, by him some extra coaching gear (out of budget instead of $$ stipends) to try to offset some of the loss.
Freshman team is important, but you will only get fired if you are losing on Friday nights, not on Freshman football night...
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Post by coachorr on Feb 14, 2010 18:48:52 GMT -6
This guy wouldn't work on the freshman level. He coached with the freshman last year and it was a disaster. Granted, most of that was MY fault because I didn't put the guy in a good position to succeed, but it was a disaster nonetheless. Long story short...we were really undermanned last year and that was just where the guy ended up. The kids just ran him over and he developed a very negative and adversarial relationship with several parents. The reason he is on the sophomore staff is because there are two other guys there with him. He doesn't go to the games on Friday because he is scouting for us. The guy really needs a lot of supervision around kids. The other delicate part of this is his brother is also on our staff and is one of our best coaches. I don't want to put him in a position where he has to choose between supporting his brother and coaching for us. Based on the comment"needs supervision around kids", this seems to be your answer right there. Tough decision. Only top quality coaches should get a full stipend. |
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Post by jlenwood on Feb 15, 2010 10:19:13 GMT -6
I don't understand why you can't fire the guy. Is he a teacher in the system and gets a spot if he wants it?
Seems like you could fire him, hire the good coach, and hire another soph coach at reduced pay. Is the good coach you want to bring in concerned with the $ right now, or is he just trying to get on a staff? If he would take reduced pay, split that pay between the 2 positions you need.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Feb 17, 2010 2:21:49 GMT -6
I think he's mostly afraid of alienating his brother who is a very good coach on staff.
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