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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 29, 2010 16:27:59 GMT -6
I have learned over the last couple of years that peer pressure is something I am fighting constantly.
peer pressure not to earn points
peer pressure to skip two a days
peer pressure to skip study hall
peer pressure to skip weights
peer pressure to do nothing in weight class
peer pressure to speak badly of the coaches
these things are huge issues, we battle them every single day. Kids in my wt room were saying that some of the upperclassmen who did not play tried to talk them out of playing and talk them out of lifting.
The negative types work very hard to bring others down. In what ways do you battle with this?
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Post by FlexboneOne on Jan 29, 2010 17:00:58 GMT -6
Coach;
I have the same issues. But, things have gotten better because I will work with and train those that show up. Those that don't will be behind the eight ball. Eventually, your younger kids will see that you care, and they will too. It's difficult to change the older kids, so show the younger ones how to do things right, and stick to your guns.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 29, 2010 17:19:33 GMT -6
Those who cannot rise to meet high expectations constantly seek to undermine and sabotage this program. Our program motto is "CHAMPIONS TRAIN, LOSERS COMPLAIN" and man, its completely accurate.
You are right, the younger kids can see it, they recognize the poor attitude.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Jan 29, 2010 21:31:18 GMT -6
Is it possible to load the kids up and take them to meet a college or even a successful HS team so they can get a sense of the work ethic it takes to be a winner? I'm not talking about meeting with the coaches so much as talking with the players and seeing how they work out and approach practice and preparation.
It's easy to be apathetic when you don't understand the real costs that come with it. No one has ever achieved anything in life without someone telling him he's an idiot for trying.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 29, 2010 23:53:28 GMT -6
TDM,
First let me say that I know that this is not a direct answer. It's not even a complete problem solving answer. But, it could be another weapon in your arsenal.
Have any of you HS coaches ever considered making an inter-league/conference/whatever weightroom highlight film?
Anyone remember that LSU hype-up vid that was posted here a couple seasons back? It showed the players in the weight room as well as the field. I'm wondering if coaches from competing schools in the same conference collaborated on a highlight film that featured plenty of weight room and classroom shots if it would help their players get motivated about what they need to do to be winners? Hell, you could make it look like an NFL highlight film. Just focus weight room, two-a-days, etc... more than actual game footage.
I mean, if you coach the Little Giants and part of the video showed the Mighty Ducks grunting and straining through squats couldn't that motivate your Little Giants squad to say, "Oh, sh!t! They're serious. We're going to have to be just as serious."
The Might Ducks could reap some benefits, too. "Oh, crap. I saw one of those Little Giants benching 300lbs on that vid! Time to go to work"!
I know the difficulty would be in getting that kind of cooperation between rival coaches. But, no one is giving up trade secrets. It would just be a hype-up video that says to all players, "This is what it takes to compete in our league, baby. Go hard. Or, go home."
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 30, 2010 3:04:30 GMT -6
Imagine some young 8th, 9th and 10th graders coming to the wt room after school. Before their workout they bump into Johnny Cancer in the hallway who shoves them into the wall and tells them they are puZZies and are ghey for doing what coach wants them to do. They are "stupid" because theyd "play anyway" even if they didnt lift. Then Johnny Cancer takes a basketball pinnie from one of them because he lost his own and doesnt want to run at practice.
On his way to the gym, mouth running, JOhnny Cancer sees a couple of basketball players leaving the wt room going to basketball practice with him. He starts on them next....for the next 2.5 hours Johnny C works on those kids griping about the weights and academics and discipline required for football. If hes not complaining about football its griping over whos starting in basketball and what puzzies they are etc. He sucks two kids into griping ...practice has become useless... now hes not only a cancer in football but in basketball as well. whatever ounce of motivation was left for the kids was squeezed out of them during lunch, time in the locker and time at the ymca or basketball practice...for some reason, Johnny is just entertaining enough that the other kids dont tell him to go away.
The following day Johnny is in phys ed class, scoots about the class griping about teachers, admin, his boss, life in general, talking about all of the injustices that he perceives in the school, everyone is out to get him, he didnt do "nuthin" but hes got detention every day for the rest of his life and everyone else is stupid and everyone should just quit and rebel etc etc etc. The kid destroys the atmosphere for learning and for training. Hes loud, his friends (having formed a bond through drug and alcohol use primarily), always entertained by his near criminal antics, are loud and outspoken. When nobodys looking he and his friends are tearing down motivational posters, screwing with the pride points charts and leader boards, drawing penises on the walls, destroying stuff. Its like a plague.
Point is, we all talk about "getting rid of the cancer before it spreads and grows" but you cant really protect your kids from it all day long. They see and hear those same kids in study hall, on the bus, at lunch, at basketball, at the YMCA, at the school dance, in the library, in the computer room, in the hallway, in classes etc. If Johnny Cancer is running with 2-3 other kids....wow, it can tear things apart fast.
Do you guys ever see your players sitting with kids who have quit your programs? Does it concern you as a coach? It certainly concerns me when I see kids hanging out with kids who I suspect are heavily into drugs and boozin and shop lifting etc. We all work so hard to teach whats right but we cant go so far as to tell them who they can be friends with now can we?
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Post by coachcompton on Jan 30, 2010 14:24:48 GMT -6
Put the shoe on the other foot...ask them if they think those kids who give up at everything or don't want to work at anything will eventually become...do you think that Johnny Cancer is ever going to be successful in life with his slacker attitude? What type of career do you think Johnny Cancer can obtain? Is that where you want to be? How do you think Johnny Cancer would be as a father? Would you rely on Johnny Cancer as a friend? as a coworker? Could you trust Johnny Cancer with your grades? With your money? If you had a daughter would you be okay with her to be with Johnny Cancer?...different Johnny Cancer's call for different treatments; but if you can get kids to come to their own conclusion about the differences in what it takes to be successful and how easy it is to be a failure then they will be able to motivate themselves and others more effectively. They will choose to surround themselves with like minded people who will be an asset in their lives as opposed to those who are liabilities, the type of people who will put themselves and others in positions to ruin their dreams and goals.
Put the pressure back on your players. What do you want out of life? (find their motivations) How are you going to get there? How hard are you going to have to work to get there? How hard did those who have had success worked to achieve their goals?
If you can get even just a few to buy into that commitment and your approach; you will have leaders who can turn the tables of peer pressure around into team pressure (because the thoughts/actions of even just one player are a reflection of everyone and have a direct impact on our goals as a team)...the last thing I would have to say is you have to identify your leaders and "star players" and get them to buy into this attitude and the leadership role.
"Star players" are leaders whether they want to be or not, because when it comes to the classroom, on the practice field, outside of school, in the game, and when the game is on the line; the team, the coaches, the community will be looking to them to set the standard. They HAVE to work harder than everyone else, they HAVE to set the bar as high as possible on and off the field, because the others will often emulate them...work as hard as them...and an even better result try to outwork them. But if your leaders and stars set the bar low when it comes to school, work ethic, practice, and at home; the players will emulate those attitudes as well; an even worse effective they will "out work them" at being lazy or to top them by treating people worse, trying to be badder than the team bad ass, and will ultimately be a detriment to the team; which will hurt all of our goals including your "star players" aspirations of going on to play college ball.
When it comes to off the field they have to understand everything they do is a reflection of themselves, their family, their team, their school, and their community. They have to ask themselves when it comes to making any decision "What would the headline say if what I'm doing was on the front page of the newspaper?" ( xx High School Football Player arrested for DUI) "What would my mother/grandmother/guardian/coach/) say if they saw this picture I'm going to post online?" "What does this action I'm about to do say about me?" What would Jesus do? What would Jesus or my god think about me if I do this or treat this person this way? Would I want someone else to do this to me or treat me this way? my mother or guardian? my child? What would I think about my coach if he did this? and "How is what I'm about to do going to help me achieve my goals and what I want out of life?" if its not beneficial to your goals, find something that is. If a person isn't benefital to your life, find someone who is. People will associate you with the people you hang around. (Its hard to get players to buy into this sometimes because allot of times there isn't someone responsible at home, negative people in the community, in the school, and sometimes even coaches don't care enough or show that what occurs off the football field is as important as what goes on in practice or in a game....its hard to break this "being bad and doing the things that we aren't supposed to is cool" thing held by many kids; I'm very curious on how other coaches work to break that mindset)
Sometimes cancers occur because as coaches we allow them to happen, we have to step in and identify these negative attitudes and feelings and work to correct them....We have to also praise positive attitudes and hard work...they have to see the rewards more than just hear about them as well. Communication is the key...its probably the most under-rated aspect when it comes to coaching. You have to talk to your players, learn about your players, and focus on making sure they can be successful in life. Kids have short attention spans; you have to constantly get them to focus on their goals and ambitions; and how they are going to get there. It can't be a once a week or month thing...you have to work on it every single day and you have to be willing to step outside of the routine hours and get your assistants to buy into it as well.
Its much easier said than done, but it can be accomplished and it must be accomplished...as coaches our responsibilities are much greater than wins, losses, and championships. Its about getting young men to find themselves, their ambitions, and their goals...and teaching them how to be the best men they can possibly be and exceed even their own visions of what success is all about.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 30, 2010 16:34:15 GMT -6
TDM,
I doubt that you really need to waste your energy and pit your will directly against some 15>18 yr. old punk(s). Keep doing what you do. Keep building a program and those types of little a-holes will just fade away into the background. But, you know your program and school environment a lot better than I ever will. If you feel that it is an area that you really need to spend a little time and energy there, you just need to define what type of problem you have on your hands with these types of kids.
In the military it is called psychological warfare. Johnny Cancer is waging a war against your program, the school and, probably society in general, using unconventional weapons. But, he’s using old weapons. He’s not saying or doing anything that you haven’t seen, heard or, dealt with before. He just thinks he is. It sounds like you're not fighting back but, that you want to. You're letting Johnny Cancer 'win the minds & hearts of the population.' Start fighting back if that’s your choice.
Again, I know these may not be the best answers. But, I just hope that they give you ideas on ways to counter Mr. Cancer.
Do you have art students? Get them involved. Ask them to make a series of laminated posters that show Johnny Cancer in a variety of situations.
1. JC on the sidelines in football gear (or, in a weightroom) saying, "I hate lifting! Lifting's stupid. Why do we have to lift so much?!" In the background you can show an opposing team muscling over JC's team.
2. JC whining about schoolwork. JC receiving an 'F'(for those schools that still actually give 'F's). JC graduating at the bottom of his class or, not graduating at all. JC(still complaining about schoolwork) flipping burgers after HS.
3. JC complaining about hard work. JC getting fired from his menial job. JC (still complaining) standing on a street corner begging for spare change.
4. JC complaining about discipline. JC getting expelled from school. JC vandalizing property. JC (still complaining) standing behind bars.
I wouldn't directly quote any one kid- unless they said something general. I'd put the posters in places like the weightroom and fieldhouse. Places that JC can't get to so that he can rip the signs down without directly facing his opponent. Bullies hate that.
Basically, turn JC into a joke. JC is just a bully. I bet there are players, kids and girls (most important to HS boys) that don't like him nearly as much as he thinks they do. They just need a catalyst to help them stand up to him. JC will always have his little clique of losers. Nothing you can do about that. But, at least they'll be confined, contained and not spreading sedition all over the place.
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Post by superpower on Jan 31, 2010 3:42:11 GMT -6
You have to choose your battles. Is this one worth fighting? If so, I think there are some good suggestions here. If not, coach the kids who care.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 31, 2010 4:35:43 GMT -6
NO doubt, we put our heart and soul into the kids who care. Interesting is how much energy the quitters/negative role models put into sabbotage and destruction of morale.
Toxic people like to spread their poison and bring others down, even after they are no longer part of what we do, they continue to work on destroying all of the good things we do. WE have spent many hours trying to help some see the light and try to keep them involved and keep them out of trouble. Still, kids make their own choices and some have little support or proper guidance from home. The weak ones bond together and try to get others to follow their lead.
We want all of the kids to play, we welcome all of them and we wont lower the bar for them and thats when their rebellion becomes war to them. I hold kids accountable in the classroom, they take it personal and want to destroy football for the others. Its a sad thing.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 31, 2010 12:33:04 GMT -6
Coach,
I have been the head coach at two different programs. If the kids do not follow our directions they are gone... weight room, practice, academics.. real simple.
If this is out of your control (AND BY MOST OF YOUR POST IT SEEMS THE KIDS ARE NOT BUYING INTO WHAT YOU DO..)
Why don't you just go to another school... If the culture is so poor and the administration and parents and kids are not on board 1000%, well I am sure there are schools that will do things the way you want them done.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 31, 2010 12:41:53 GMT -6
THE KIDS CANNOT JUST BE "GONE"- WE HAVE 120 BOYS OR SO IN OUR SCHOOL. 21 of them had physicals turned in on time to play football, that includes 6 freshmen. You cant have a team or program by saying "youre gone" where I am. IF you lose kids and have to forfeit games, you lose your program for two years in this state.
(nor would I be able to keep my job, the community wants football here, some think I am too demanding just because of two a days, academic and discipline focus, community service, pride points and the fact that I encourage the idea that we lift after school and all summer). Some think that having lifting during the season, 2.5 hour practices, discipline for missing practices and mandatory study hall pre practice drive numbers down....
In any case, IM not interested in "just going somewhere else" - I am determined to do my best for these kids. I am also not interested in running this as a glorified youth program either.
Its funny but I just counted, I have opened the wt room 40 times since the season ended. Wednesdays dont really count as a scheduled workout but some kids have pe or lifting class on wed, so including wed, we have had 40 workouts.
My top guy (soph left tackle, a two way starter) has made 28 workouts, I have a couple that have made about 22....we are making progress but its slow.
we have a long way to go before the weights are part of the culture here. Last summer our wt room was closed for renovations , that didnt help.
I hear they used to have more wt class sections but thats no excuse, we just need the kids to be willing to lift during basketball season. we have two or three that are willing to do that, the others no...after hoops we expect to see a bigger buy in but then again we will be competing with baseball and track. Most of our kids are three sport athletes of course. Another challenge for us is the ymca, the kids like to go there after school to play basketball and "lift".
The bright spot is that this year we have a handful of 8th graders who are already coming to the hs to lift. thats a plus obviously. I have a bunch of parents on board now as we started a parents TOUCHDOWN CLUB and that has helped as well. getting parental support is a big part of getting the kids to hang around school and lift.
all of that aside, the kids that are coming to the wt room, about 30 of them, sporatically, are wonderful kids. Its the small few who are no longer with us that work these kids hard, badgering them and slamming them for buying in. Thats the point of this thread.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 31, 2010 15:29:35 GMT -6
I meant to add, I have been working with my core kids on how to use peer pressure in a positive way. Pressure each other to spend thirty minutes in the wt room, then run some hills/steps/halls and throw some pass routes. Recruit , and sell and defend the program.
I have seen and heard some good things from that. Some positive peer pressure that I have seen is the 8th grader that keeps coming over with different kids, hes like my little recruiter from that other building. I have mentioned several times about my older kids putting their arms around the younger kids and helping them with how things are done in our wt room. thats a real plus.
btw, Ill add that some of the negative peer pressure is from some real ignorant kids who have never come to our wt room, any football meetings or any practices ....they have never been part of this program but for whatever reason they dont want other kids to be part of it? Theres maybe two or three that I know of that spend or have spent energy on that. Best I can figure is that they were disciplined by me in the lunch room for throwing food ( i made them clean it up) and for cursing in class (sorry, dont allow that). I know theres one graduated kid who didnt play last year after I told him he wasnt allowed to put his hands on the freshmen. (hed shoved a couple of kids around on the field one day while he was "thinking" about playing). The other part of the negative peer pressure may be from kids who are being worked on by one guy in the community who wants the job. I believe hes telling some kids and their parents what the kids want to hear. Its a real shame.
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