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Post by coachinghopeful on Jan 29, 2010 0:05:22 GMT -6
This is very much a long way off for me, but it's something I've been thinking about...
If you were hired as HC at a struggling school facing a major building project (that's BUILDING, not REBUILDING), how would you go about building your staff?
Assume you've negotiated for the ability to determine which holdovers from the previous regime you keep on staff, but almost all of them will still be in the building as teachers. You don't know anything about them, but the team's been bad for a while in just about every possible way so you don't have high expectations.
Admin has said they'll work with you on bringing in 1-2 new teacher/coaches you want and you're free to bring in a non-faculty coach or two, but anything past that (including volunteers) must be made up of the holdovers you're unsure about keeping.
How would you proceed?
What responsibilities would you want to ensure are taken care of by "your guys" who have your full confidence and in what priority? For example: S&C coach may be #1, OL coach may be #2, DB coach #3, etc. I'm assuming a faculty coach would be someone capable of handling a coordinator spot, too.
How would you evaluate the returning assistants off a bad team and figure out who's worth keeping and who's not?
Is there anything in particular besides the obvious traits (loyalty, professionalism, enthusiasm, etc.) that you'd look for in filling your staff?
Do you think it's ever a good idea to keep a mediocre (or worse) coach around for political reasons? Like maybe he's lazy and doesn't know much about the game but people love him because he's such a nice guy and has been there forever, or maybe he's selfish but has a relative who can make your job hell if he loses his stipend.
I'm really interested in seeing how people would approach this.
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Post by 42falcon on Jan 31, 2010 15:56:08 GMT -6
That is a loaded question.
It sounds like you are pretty handcuffed in who you bring in. I would HC and DC bring in an OC who would be my guy and a guy to do specials. Sounds like the rest of the staff would have to come from the holdovers which can be bad but good at the same time.
Here is the thing with the holdovers: 1) some could be great coaches that were never allowed to flourish or had to carry out poor planning and game planing 2) bad coaches 3) they are pissed that you are in and are more interested in what they can do politicaly to discredit and replace you (these are the guys to cut off at the knees before the season starts)
Keep the guys that fit 1 & 2. The guys who fit #1 are great and will develop into solid coaches for you, send #2 to as many clinics and get them as much info as you can then re-evaluate at the end of the year. If you have to keep #3 have them fill the water, wash the jerseys, move cones if they have to be there, if you can get rid of them do it they will screw you in the end.
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Post by coachbw on Jan 31, 2010 16:23:32 GMT -6
This is very much a long way off for me, but it's something I've been thinking about... What responsibilities would you want to ensure are taken care of by "your guys" who have your full confidence and in what priority? For example: S&C coach may be #1, OL coach may be #2, DB coach #3, etc. I'm assuming a faculty coach would be someone capable of handling a coordinator spot, too. As a head coach I would have my hands all over the S&C program so I don't think that would be my top preference. Depending on the way your school breaks it down, I would probably put the guys I have 100% trust in as the head 9th and 10th grade coaches. The hard part is that a lot of guys don't want to be at that level. After that, I want an offensive line coach that knows what he is doing, and from there, coordinators. I think that in some ways coordinating positions are overrated. They do have influence, but a great offensive or defensive staff can pick up a lot of the slack for an inexperienced coordinator. From a trust level, I think coordinators are somewhat limited in what they can do to undercut a head coach. I worry more about position coaches in that respect. If a coordinator does a terrible job, it is pretty easy to see the offense isn't being productive, or the defense lacks intensity. It is a lot harder to see the influence of a DB coach or a RB coach on the program.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 31, 2010 16:29:38 GMT -6
Ok, maybe I didnt read the post very well but Ill take a shot at this.
You want to take the HC job, you have to keep "holdovers" from the prior staff around. They are teachers.
Now, all of that is a completely mixed blessing.
figure that the holders applied and were passed over for the job, theres resentment there. Figure too that some of the players pushed for certain favorite (aka permissive) coaches to get the job. Their loyalty will be with those coaches until you build those relationships.
Heres what Id do. You have a staff meeting - they are on staff. You lay out your expectations and philosophies and explain what it takes to be part of THIS PROGRAM and the direction (vision) you are taking it. you make it clear that you do not give out titles until you have trust and knowledge of each persons abilities. All titles and responsibilities will be earned. With trust comes responsibility. You mention during your meeting that anyone who feels they dont fit should say "thanks but no thanks- no hard feelings" right now.
I think youd go wrong by trying to get rid of someone who the admin wants on staff for a variety of reasons. I think itd be far more acceptable if they left on their own without drama.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 31, 2010 16:43:31 GMT -6
Assume you've negotiated for the ability to determine which holdovers from the previous regime you keep on staff, but almost all of them will still be in the building as teachers. You don't know anything about them, but the team's been bad for a while in just about every possible way so you don't have high expectations. Could actually be a benefit to have coaches in the building. In my current situation, we have 8 coaches and not one guy in the building. It is a PITA. If we just had ONE guy in the school, it would really help out to facilitate communication between the football program and the school community. I would try and find at least 1 guy who was a holdover whom I could use. Having a guy in the building will save you some headaches later. Admin has said they'll work with you on bringing in 1-2 new teacher/coaches you want and you're free to bring in a non-faculty coach or two, but anything past that (including volunteers) must be made up of the holdovers you're unsure about keeping. This would be a HUGE red flag for me...I wouldn't take a gig at a place where I only had nominal control of the staff, especially at a place that hasn't been successful for a while. Rebuilding is tough enough...why go into it with 1 hand tied behind your back? Chances are really good, if it was anything like the situation I inherited a year ago, that you have some dead weight that needs to be cut loose. What responsibilities would you want to ensure are taken care of by "your guys" who have your full confidence and in what priority? For example: S&C coach may be #1, OL coach may be #2, DB coach #3, etc. I'm assuming a faculty coach would be someone capable of handling a coordinator spot, too. Don't assume anything. The first thing you will need to assess is which coaches that you inherit can work with minimal supervision. In other words, if you assign the freshmen team to one of the holdovers, is he going to enforce the team rules? Is he going to run the team offense, defesne, and special teams? Or is he going to do his "own" thing? First thing you will need to do is put someone whom you trust in charge of the lower level programs...those are your most important coaches because the experience kids have on that level will largely determine whether or not those kids will stick it out and become varsity players. How would you evaluate the returning assistants off a bad team and figure out who's worth keeping and who's not? Start with the AD. If the AD is a decent guy, he should be able to give you a fairly honest assessment of the returning coaches. Past that, I would set up a questionaire. Ask guys how long they have coached, what they have coached in the past, and, most importantly, what their level of committment in the offseason will be. What you will find out is probably half the guys won't even bother filling it out. Those guys have given you their answer. Before you talk to each guy, make sure that you have your offseason plans and calendar all worked out. That way, the guys can see what you expect in regards to coaching participation in the offseason. Is there anything in particular besides the obvious traits (loyalty, professionalism, enthusiasm, etc.) that you'd look for in filling your staff? Big thing for me would be the knowledge that these guys are willing to work...are they excuse-makers? Are they the kind of guys who claim that the school never gets any good athletes? That the lack of success has nothing to d with poor coaching practices that need to be addressed? If you have excuse makers in the group, I wouldn't keep them. Do you think it's ever a good idea to keep a mediocre (or worse) coach around for political reasons? Like maybe he's lazy and doesn't know much about the game but people love him because he's such a nice guy and has been there forever, or maybe he's selfish but has a relative who can make your job hell if he loses his stipend. I wouldn't keep someone like that. Far better to have your enemies up in the stands rather than on your own sideline.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 31, 2010 16:46:49 GMT -6
figure that the holders applied and were passed over for the job, theres resentment there. Figure too that some of the players pushed for certain favorite (aka permissive) coaches to get the job. Their loyalty will be with those coaches until you build those relationships. Good point, TD. The job I got last year, 3 of the holdovers had applied for it. 2 of the guys were really OK with the fact they didn't get...both young guys who didn't ahve a lot of experience and understood that was the major reason they didn't get the gig. The 3rd guy...he just couldn't get over it. I was willing to make it work but, in the end, it just wasn't going to happen and I had to cut him loose.
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Post by unc31 on Jan 31, 2010 19:52:25 GMT -6
I run the Offense and S&C, so that is not a need. Although I am very hands on with the Defense, I want a guy who I can trust to take the vision and get it done.
Prioritizing is as follows:
1. Defensive coordinator 2. O Line Coach 3. Secondary coach 4. QB coach ( Works extensively with WR's as well ) 5. LB coach 6. DL coach 7. WR coach 8. RB coach 9. TE coach ( TE will work extensively with OL and also get reps with WR's on fundamentals )
Special Teams is a joint effort. Def. coaches handle def. aspects and off. staff handles off. aspects.
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Post by coachweav88 on Jan 31, 2010 20:06:35 GMT -6
To me, i think it would make sense to hire the opposite coordinator first. For example, If you are the OC, I would think your DC would be the first person you should hire. That would be your biggest job, so you want your best coach there. Once you know what O and D you are going to run, hire guys that will fit with what you want to do. Hire to your weaknesses and don't be afraid to delegate.
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Post by blb on Jan 31, 2010 20:06:50 GMT -6
I run the Offense and S&C, so that is not a need. Although I am very hands on with the Defense, I want a guy who I can trust to take the vision and get it done. Prioritizing is as follows: 1. Defensive coordinator 2. O Line Coach 3. Secondary coach 4. QB coach ( Works extensively with WR's as well ) 5. LB coach 6. DL coach 7. WR coach 8. RB coach 9. TE coach ( TE will work extensively with OL and also get reps with WR's on fundamentals ) Special Teams is a joint effort. Def. coaches handle def. aspects and off. staff handles off. aspects. Which BCS school are you head coach at - nine assistants and neither you nor DC coach a position?!
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Post by unc31 on Jan 31, 2010 21:57:22 GMT -6
Ha, not quite a BCS school but we are blessed to have a large staff (17). Two are volunteers and three were interns this year. 2 from a local University who just finished up their degrees and want to coach as a career and the other has been out of school for quite a while but is going back to get teaching credentials and coach and teach full time .
We have an offensive staff and a defensive staff and coach both the JV and Varsity. The interns work with position coaches and really help with another set of eyes. One with OL, one with DL and one with slots and Flankers. One volunteer is the WR coach and the other is the TE coach. Both are very knowledgeable.
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Post by hamerhead on Jan 31, 2010 23:13:13 GMT -6
Not criticizing at all here, but I genuinely enjoy reading stuff like this to see "how the other half lives" so to speak.
The staff I'm on had four coaches last year. Period. Grades 9-12. There is no freshmen team or tenth grade team or anything. 400 kids in the school (depending on if rent's cheaper here or in the county next door this month). Last year we had a HC was also the OC and coached OL/LB. I was the DC and coached DL/RB. We had a DB/WR coach and another guy was the QB coach. (He really didn't do much else). On Mondays, we had JV games so myself and the WR/DB coach went to the JV game. Oddly enough, I called offense and he called defense.
The only reason I say all this is to go back to the OP and say that it REALLY depends on the size of the school and community. I'm interviewing for the HC job in a couple weeks (I think? I hope?) and I can't even fathom having any say in the hiring of coaching staff. If people don't teach at the school, they don't coach. In a town of 2,000 people, I just don't see where the coaches would come from, and we certainly wouldn't have the luxury of having more than 5 coaches in any given season, and that's assuming our booster club pays for one. (which they haven't the last two years because honestly, there wasn't a qualified candiate around).
Its just world different when you compare the culture of small school/town vs big school/town.
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Post by realdawg on Feb 1, 2010 6:52:27 GMT -6
Not a Head Coach, but if I was, my number one priority would be to hire a DC. Preferably a DC with a strong background in SC and special teams to help me in both of those areas, as I imagine being HC pulls you in alot of directions. Next would be either a QB coach b/c I would try to coach my own OL
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Post by coachks on Feb 1, 2010 10:55:26 GMT -6
Just based on what I've read/horror-stories I've heard this isn't a bad scenario. You can add, possibly, 2 teachers and 2 non-faculty coaches and release anybody you want.
I would have as many good coaches as I can. If that means there are only 5 coaches (Myself and the 4 new hires), then we're going to be busy.
The two top needs, to me, are a freshman coach and a varsity assistant. Ideally you can find the freshman coach somehwere in the program (maybe he's a youth coach/middle school coach....maybe there is a young guy.....maybe there is an old guy who just isn't interested in varsity anymore). He needs to be able/willing to coach the fundamentals every day, enforce basic rules/discipline and keep kids in the program. Fill out the rest of this staff before anything else (maybe you need to add another volunteer).
Then, add a varsity assistant (coordinator or not, someone you can count on in case of emergency). Ideally this is a teacher you can bring into the building. His actual job (OC/DC/OL/DB whatever) isn't as important as being someone reliabe to help enforce discipline and do things your way (attitude wise). If you can add two, even better.
If you can't trust any hold-overs to coach the JVs, then keep the JVs and varsity together. Maybe throw in JV playcalling duties to keep them happy.
If you end up with 3 varsity coaches (yourself and two others) and 2 freshman coaches so be it.
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Post by blb on Feb 1, 2010 11:16:34 GMT -6
There is no "one size fits all" answer to this question because, as has been pointed out, every situation is different - size of school-community, number of paid positions, holdovers, faculty coaches, access to volunteers, etc.
When hiring assistants I look for:
1) Good character guys - good with kids 2) Work ethic - put in necessary time including weekends and off-season 3) Loyal - to program and me
If they have those things, I can teach 'em whatever they lack in fundamental or technical football. If they don't it doesn't matter what they know. I hire coaches to do me a favor, not them.
Minimum try to have three coaches per level - RB-LB, OL-DL, WR-DB for example. Also one coordinate offense, one defense, one special teams. If you have more coaches you can specialize more (one coach has C-G, another T-TE; or one has QBs, other RBs e.g.).
Having teachers who coach is generally a positive but not an absolute. Volunteers must be able to make the time commitment or they can't coach a position (only help).
When taking over a new program most headers inherit assistants. Don't assume they're bad coaches or will be disloyal. Give them a chance, try to win them over with your approach to coaching, organizational model, and style of football. Those that refuse to GWTP (Get With the Program) will fall by the wayside.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 1, 2010 12:48:04 GMT -6
I was once the guy that was fired because the new head coach felt I wasn't going to be loyal to him and felt threatened by me. I grew up in this town and had been the top assistant for 20 years. I was honest with him and told him his OC he was bringing in was a bad choice and that he was making mistakes that should be addressed. He fired me 30 minutes before the first meeting. He lasted 2 years and the last person he talked to before he left town was me. I did not say "I told you so" one time. That was seven years ao and I am still here and he has since been many places. He apologized and I accepted it.
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Post by coachguy83 on Feb 2, 2010 15:35:58 GMT -6
This is an interesting situation and not one I'll find myself in anytime soon, but I'll take a crack at it.
The first thing that I would do is interview the existing staff and see what kind of guys are already in place. I think it is a good idea to have a holdover or two as long as you are sure they aren't going to sabatoge you. I have seen what it is like when a coach is ticked that he didn't get the job and is trying to screw you over.
When interviewing the guys I'm first looking for a guy that I like and can work with long hours. If I think the guy is a real prick he's probably going to get the boot. Next I want to know that I can trust him to buy in to the new program. If he fits the bill I'm going to find a place for him on the staff, hopefully one that he can be very successful.
Once I know which holdovers I can trust I'm going to start looking for places that my guys can fit. I know I'm bringing in my brother to be my WR/DB coach and to work with Special Teams. I am going to be the OC so the biggest position to fill is going to be DC. The rest of the openings are going to be open and I'll start to put out some feelers and see who is available.
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Post by optionguy on Feb 2, 2010 16:09:17 GMT -6
There is no "one size fits all" answer to this question because, as has been pointed out, every situation is different - size of school-community, number of paid positions, holdovers, faculty coaches, access to volunteers, etc. When hiring assistants I look for: 1) Good character guys - good with kids 2) Work ethic - put in necessary time including weekends and off-season 3) Loyal - to program and me If they have those things, I can teach 'em whatever they lack in fundamental or technical football. If they don't it doesn't matter what they know. I hire coaches to do me a favor, not them. Minimum try to have three coaches per level - RB-LB, OL-DL, WR-DB for example. Also one coordinate offense, one defense, one special teams. If you have more coaches you can specialize more (one coach has C-G, another T-TE; or one has QBs, other RBs e.g.). Having teachers who coach is generally a positive but not an absolute. Volunteers must be able to make the time commitment or they can't coach a position (only help). When taking over a new program most headers inherit assistants. Don't assume they're bad coaches or will be disloyal. Give them a chance, try to win them over with your approach to coaching, organizational model, and style of football. Those that refuse to GWTP (Get With the Program) will fall by the wayside. Great post!
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Post by buck42 on Feb 2, 2010 20:38:33 GMT -6
As the HC/OC...my first move was to find an OL coach...then a DC, then fill in the best you can...
As someone said above a S&C is vitally important, I do that as well, (not really by choice) so I would hire them as well...
1) OL 2) DC 3) S&C 4) Start filling holes best you can...
It sounds good when you are told...bring whoever you want but that rarely happens!!! It has to fit into budget, teaching allotment, etc...
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Post by dubber on Feb 2, 2010 21:40:48 GMT -6
Not criticizing at all here, but I genuinely enjoy reading stuff like this to see "how the other half lives" so to speak. The staff I'm on had four coaches last year. Period. Grades 9-12. There is no freshmen team or tenth grade team or anything. 400 kids in the school (depending on if rent's cheaper here or in the county next door this month). Last year we had a HC was also the OC and coached OL/LB. I was the DC and coached DL/RB. We had a DB/WR coach and another guy was the QB coach. (He really didn't do much else). On Mondays, we had JV games so myself and the WR/DB coach went to the JV game. Oddly enough, I called offense and he called defense. The only reason I say all this is to go back to the OP and say that it REALLY depends on the size of the school and community. I'm interviewing for the HC job in a couple weeks (I think? I hope?) and I can't even fathom having any say in the hiring of coaching staff. If people don't teach at the school, they don't coach. In a town of 2,000 people, I just don't see where the coaches would come from, and we certainly wouldn't have the luxury of having more than 5 coaches in any given season, and that's assuming our booster club pays for one. (which they haven't the last two years because honestly, there wasn't a qualified candiate around). Its just world different when you compare the culture of small school/town vs big school/town. Same boat here. As the HC, you set EVERYTHING, and those who can't/won't follow get gone. That is something you NEED to make CERTAIN the admin backs you on.......and would be considered a deal breaker if they can't support you in this. This is why I firmly believe ALL job interviews should be a two-way street in terms of question asking. If during the interview, the admin starts saying stuff like "well, we'd like Coach Dubber to stay around, he's been here forever, and we couldn't let you get rid of him......." that'd be a sign to NOT TAKE THE JOB.
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