|
Post by italianstallion on Jan 25, 2010 11:35:11 GMT -6
Anybody else think it is inexcusable that the Viking had a 5 yard 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout? Brett Favre should never have had to throw the interception at the end of the game. They should have been able to run the ball one more time, call timeout and kick the game winning field goal from around 45 yards. Instead the penalty put them out of range for a field goal, Favre was forced to have to make a play and then the interception. If I were a Viking coach I would not be able to sleep for weeks. (I have been in similar situation and still have not gotten over them)
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jan 25, 2010 11:58:13 GMT -6
Inexcusable is right - they just had a time out, how could they have too many men-wrong personnel in huddle?!
The penalty took it from 3rd and 3 to 3rd and 8. Without the penalty they can maybe run the ball (or could've run same play they called and Favre runs instead of throwing back across the middle late) for 1st Down but are five yards closer to a makable FG regardless.
Without the penalty the interception probably doesn't happen. Not to completely absolve Favre because ball never should've been thrown, but Childress and/or OC need to take big part of the blame for the loss as a result of that fiasco.
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Jan 25, 2010 12:00:16 GMT -6
agreed, he didn't have to throw it though. Just run for what he could and hope Longwell could make the field goal. Still comes down to winning the toss or stopping them in OT.
|
|
|
Post by coachguy83 on Jan 25, 2010 12:08:14 GMT -6
He didn't have to throw it, but he did what he has done his entire career and tried to make the play. The thing that drove me nuts was how Aikman spent two minutes talking about how he had fifteen yards of green in front of him and he could have ran for a chunk of yards. He completely forget that Farve's ankle was obviously bothering him and rolling out was probably about as good as you were going to get out of him.
Blame Farve all you want for the loss, but it really comes down to the penalty.
|
|
|
Post by bigsandwich on Jan 25, 2010 12:10:15 GMT -6
Turnovers
|
|
|
Post by fatkicker on Jan 25, 2010 12:11:23 GMT -6
absolutely no excuse...
but brings up the argument that comes up every year..... the nfl overtime rules suck.....
and i know minnesota should have stopped them and shouldn't have made the mistakes at the end of regulation....
but the game should be about the players.....not about the coin flip....
maybe the college rule isn't the answer, but there's gotta be a better way....
|
|
|
Post by darebelcoach on Jan 25, 2010 12:12:42 GMT -6
It's funny how we as coaches notice that and realize that the penalty was the bigger mistake that eventually led to Farve having to throw the interception whereas the "media" put all the blame on Farve.....I mean obviously the turnovers killed them, but that penalty was huge......even my wife was watching the game with me and said "the interception would have never happened if the 12 men on the field hadn't occurred"
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Jan 25, 2010 12:22:57 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Jan 25, 2010 12:59:31 GMT -6
Anybody else think it is inexcusable that the Viking had a 5 yard 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout? Brett Favre should never have had to throw the interception at the end of the game. They should have been able to run the ball one more time, call timeout and kick the game winning field goal from around 45 yards. Instead the penalty put them out of range for a field goal, Favre was forced to have to make a play and then the interception. If I were a Viking coach I would not be able to sleep for weeks. (I have been in similar situation and still have not gotten over them) Yes, I do find it inexcusable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. How can a professional football team, with who knows how many assistant coaches, have such a brain fart coming out of a time-out in the most critical situation of the season? While the turnovers were clearly a major issue, they had overcome them and were in a position to win the game. That penalty was HUGE.
|
|
|
Post by Coach JR on Jan 25, 2010 13:11:25 GMT -6
Anybody else think it is inexcusable that the Viking had a 5 yard 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout? Brett Favre should never have had to throw the interception at the end of the game. They should have been able to run the ball one more time, call timeout and kick the game winning field goal from around 45 yards. Instead the penalty put them out of range for a field goal, Favre was forced to have to make a play and then the interception. If I were a Viking coach I would not be able to sleep for weeks. (I have been in similar situation and still have not gotten over them) It was inexcusable, and I thought that when I saw it. That said, the 4 previous turnovers, one when they were virtually assured of points after getting a Saint turnover, cost them the game. Favre's last turnover was just the icing on the cake. They were the best team, but gave the game away, and that penalty, though incredibly stupid, wasn't the cause. Vikings sholuld have been up by 2 scores running out the clock at that point.
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 25, 2010 13:13:32 GMT -6
I wonder if it was favre vs childress that led to the penalty in the first place. cant you see favre trying to do one thing while coach is doing another? I hate to say it but Ill bet itll come out that way.
|
|
|
Post by shortpunter on Jan 25, 2010 16:33:30 GMT -6
The thing that still gets me is all the mistakes and turnovers. and there the Vikes are in OT with them. How about the converting just one of the mistakes and you are in Miami
|
|
|
Post by airman on Jan 25, 2010 17:01:56 GMT -6
Brett Favre made the biggest mistake in the world. he locked on to one rec the whole way. he wanted to go backside to the rice kid. typical favre, give him time and he thinks he is super man in those situation. aka 2007 NFC championship game.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Jan 25, 2010 17:48:24 GMT -6
Sorry, Mr. Balboa, for diverting your post, but just adding some musings....
I was really floored at the sheer volume of offensive attempts from Minnesota (83?)...that is just staggering. And 6 fumbles? 2 INTs? We really should be asking why that didn't give their opponent 21 pts.
I was wondering why Favre was attempting to call a TO right after they called a TO (I actually thought they were out of TOs when he called it).
Great (exciting) game though.
One question - does it make anyone (as a coach) feel bad/uncomfortable/uneasy with the extremely subjective calls for hits/physical with offensive players? I don't know how you'd actually coach FOR that. Maybe like Alex Gibbs and charting the tendencies of officiating crews? Because I don't see how from a technique / coaching standpoint you can avoid the petty roughing / personal foul calls as they result in the fraction of a second...... [Btw - I get this feeling whenever a RTP is called no matter his playing)
Sorry for the long rant
|
|
|
Post by td4tc on Jan 25, 2010 20:05:21 GMT -6
not as bad as having too many men on the field on defense for a game winning FG that was MISSED WIDE.....then they line up 5 yards closer and make it to win the GREY CUP (Canada's version of the Super Bowl).happened this year to Saskatchewan.amazing eh? Favre was just being Favre however.Couldn't help himself. Live and die as a Gunslinger. tough pass to end his career on but a great run this year at age 40.i was done at 20.
|
|
|
Post by wingt74 on Jan 25, 2010 20:48:50 GMT -6
Hard to 2nd guess another coach. What I think a lot of people are missing is...the personnel game OCs play in the pros...DC for NO had to guess if they were going to run or pass. Vikings went with three WRs but then wanted to switch out a WR for a TE at the last minute to potentially catch NO off guard,
Obviously blew up in their face. It happens, they're human.
Brophy...I think the NFL is taking the right approach with protecting their stars...but the refs are all on different pages, and aren't use to making the calls. The issue is these NFL refs are not full time...they need full time refs to implement significant rule changes like RFP. The hit on Brees was 100% RTP...but the hit on Favre on the reverse as iffy at best.
Then again, pass interference reared it's ugly head again in the game.
|
|
|
Post by lionhart on Jan 25, 2010 21:45:22 GMT -6
inexcusable isnt strong enough of a word. i believe it may be grounds for firing. finally i get some intelligent football discussion about this..... ive been listening to hacks complain about favre "blowing" the game all day long. CLEARLY if they dont get the penalty, they run AP up the middle, maybe get a couple yards... then kick it. and to be coming out of a TO? i think i would fire myself if that happened under my watch. that being said... favre played pretty well considering the beating he took. i counted at least 4 3rd and longs which he completed for 1st downs. and the viking D was nothign short of dominant. they held the best O in the nfl to very low yardage and points considering how many times the vikes turned it over. and i must say this.... as a lifelong, DIE HARD viking fan - i have NEVER been more heartbroken. i cant even compare this feeling to anything. not even the '99 NFC title game loss to atlanta. i am utterly devastated by this and not sure if i will be able to even watch the super bowl. thanks for letting me vent.
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Jan 25, 2010 22:08:13 GMT -6
I wouldn't have given AP the ball in that situation anymore than I trusted brett not to throw a pick.
|
|
hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
|
Post by hawke on Jan 25, 2010 22:19:50 GMT -6
How many of you RB coaches have emphasized that the elbow has to be up to give the QB a n open pocket to place the ball in. Petersen (sp?) made an elementary mistake that would find him and the coach going to the hospital on 3 legs to get the coach's foot out of you know where. Little things such as that is what cost them the game. Score there and the game is over (IMO).
Hawke
|
|
|
Post by coachcompton on Jan 25, 2010 22:30:24 GMT -6
I wasn't a fan of some of the calls at the end, but bottom line is the Vikes left the game on the table.
12 men in the huddle after a timeout...wow...just wow. Actually I felt that a second down pass might have been more appropriate...everyone was seeing run all the way; they were already in long field goal range and a pass could've got them into a very makeable field goal range, or a first down. Then if it was incomplete you could run again on third down and attempt the very long field goal.
The penalty was a killer though. The 5 turnovers were killers too. Its a tribute to how good the Vikings are. 5 to 1 TO ratio and Brett was getting absolutely leveled all game...however the Vikes had a whopping 31 first downs, 475 yards of total offense, and held the ball for nearly 37 minutes. The Vikes looked dominating at times, yet inept...very weird game for Minnesota.
I'm tired of hearing about the refs from fans though; I didn't agree with some of the calls at the end, but at the end of the day Minnesota was their own worst enemy; much like San Diego was last week.
|
|
|
Post by bleefb on Jan 25, 2010 22:32:52 GMT -6
Lionheart, You must not have been around in the 70's when Drew Pearson BLATANTLY shoved the DB to the ground to catch the "Hail Mary" from Roger Staubach that put the Cowboys into the Super Bowl. I remember Fran Tarkenton's father had a heart attack and passed away after that play.
|
|
ozcoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 132
|
Post by ozcoach on Jan 26, 2010 1:41:10 GMT -6
The lasting memory will be Favre's INT, but all the fumbles from the Vikes was almost unbelievable. They were lucky to get the ball back on some of those occasions.
|
|
|
Post by jrarick on Jan 26, 2010 7:06:31 GMT -6
And that's why football is such a great game. 60-70 men on one sideline (coaches, players, managers, trainers), working together, very few seconds to make decisions before the next play. And if this happens in the PROS, you know what we do is hard - and that's fine. Heck - instead of everyone pointing fingers and getting upset - as coaches we should just sit back and say - "SEE! This game is not as easy as it looks! Cave men CAN'T do it!" My 1.5 cents. Jack Rarick Holt Football www.coachsvideoassistant.com
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 26, 2010 7:35:23 GMT -6
absolutely no excuse... but brings up the argument that comes up every year..... the nfl overtime rules suck..... maybe the college rule isn't the answer, but there's gotta be a better way.... I agree. I hate that the outcome of a game is dependent on a coin toss...christ they might as well do paper-rock-scissors to add a little bit of skill/strategy to it! The college/HS overtime rules get chastised (for what I don't know). I like the idea of giving each team a chance. Sudden Death/Win overtime would be ok if the 1st possession was determiined by a skill/competition, not a game of chance.
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Jan 26, 2010 7:36:34 GMT -6
How many of you RB coaches have emphasized that the elbow has to be up to give the QB a n open pocket to place the ball in. Petersen (sp?) made an elementary mistake that would find him and the coach going to the hospital on 3 legs to get the coach's foot out of you know where. Little things such as that is what cost them the game. Score there and the game is over (IMO).
Totally agree with you Hawke. I coached RB's last year and when I saw the replay, it made me sick!!! That's the kind of crap our kids did. Maybe they'll see this and understand why it needs to be done EXACTLY right.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jan 26, 2010 7:45:48 GMT -6
Game wasn't decided by a coin flup.
Disregarding what happened during regulation (especially the last minute), Vikings allowed OT kickoff to be run back to near midfield.
Saints moved the ball 37 yards with aid of DPI when LBer lost coverage and holding call against DB Asher Allen. before kicking winning FG.
Don't allow 40-yard KOR. Don't commit two defensive penalties to help Saints keep drive alive. Make a play, get a stop!
Coin flip had nothing to do with it. Vikings kickoff coverage unit and defense didn't get it done in OT.
Sudden Death is fine, a unique feature of NFL - much better than college OT rules.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Jan 26, 2010 7:48:34 GMT -6
Game wasn't decided by a coin flup. Disregarding what happened during regulation (especially the last minute), Vikings allowed OT kickoff to be run back to near midfield. Saints moved the ball 37 yards with aid of DPI when LBer lost coverage and holding call against DB Asher Allen. before kicking winning FG. Don't allow 40-yard KOR. Don't commit two defensive penalties to help Saints keep drive alive. Make a play, get a stop! Coin flip had nothing to do with it. Vikings kickoff cobverage unit and defense didn't get it done in OT. Sudden Death is fine, a unique feature of NFL - much better than college OT rules. Here's the drive chart from the game: www.cbssports.com/nfl/gamecenter/drivecharts/NFL_20100124_MIN@NOIt's not like it was a given that the team who received the kickoff was sure to score first.
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Jan 26, 2010 8:10:18 GMT -6
29% of the time the team that wins the toss drives down and scores without the other team touching the ball. Overall, however, the coin toss winner only wins 52% of the time. It seems fair but these numbers are somewhat misleading because in 1994 a rule changed moved the kickoff back 5 yards to the 30 yard line (those numbers were based on data from 1973-2003). Since then, it's been about 60%. Prior to the rule change, the coin toss had no predictive value for deciding who would eventually win the game. Since 1994, the coin flip winner has a clear advantage.
Teams that won the OT coin toss won 43% of games on the first possession in 2008.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Jan 26, 2010 9:01:22 GMT -6
Football Outsiders analysis shows that the Saints took the game (as opposed to having it "given" to them). Here are their key reasons: Read the whole analysis here.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jan 26, 2010 9:03:44 GMT -6
The quote of he didn't know how many yards we needed for a field goal is also inexcusable. They just came out of a timeout. I know the ball the got moved back 5, but you still have to get to the same yardline. He should have known.
|
|