|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 22, 2010 15:51:29 GMT -6
I interviewed for a couple of HC jobs last year w/ the full knowledge of my HC..During the process, I created (IMHO) a great presentation...Mission statement, philosophies, organizational info etc..It was quite detailed and I spent alot of time on it to get it just right..I was proud of it and gave a copy to him to see what he thought what I needed etc...we have a pretty good relationship.....this is his second HC job and I haven't had much luck..anyway...My HC interviewed for a couple of real nice jobs and has one coming up next week. I asked him if he had a presentation and if so could I see it...he told me that he really doesn't hand out much during an interview just like a rules page and a couple of other things...well, I walked into the office today and there sitting in the open on his desk is my presentation EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD that he has used 2 times only with his name on it....I feel two ways about this...#1 it's stealing..it's my chit..I've been betrayed...it's going to come back to bite me and look like I STOLE IT..he should have at least asked ...They other way I feel is well it is a good presentation..I hope he gets the job..I would have a better than average chance of being the HC here...I am a business teacher and most HS admin want a coach in the building, which I don't blame thenm but it really limits my opportunities...Thoughts...Suggestions...advice....
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 22, 2010 16:02:19 GMT -6
dude, I sent out my program manual a couple of years ago....most stolen web document ever lol....
|
|
|
|
Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 22, 2010 16:22:27 GMT -6
The only thing I can say is, JG, you must be one good writer, man. Top selling book, now your HC (maybe former) is stealing your stuff. Send it to me, I'll steal it and act like I'm smart.  Seriously though, that's kinda' bad. I know that you guys are tight, but he should have told you. I think that I would wait it out and see if he comes around and tells you that he used it. I also don't think you should be uptight about people remembering the presentation, Admin's are just not that smart really. If it ever comes up, then you can tell them the truth of the matter, then who would get the last laugh. In my personal series of codes I live by, one of the most important ones is "you can't die on every hill, pick your battles carefully, but the ones you pick-be prepared to go to the death." I like to forgive people and wait and see what happens. I also like the code "win by losing." That one has served me well. Sometimes you win if you just "be cool" and wait things out. Outside of personal danger, most things work themselves out. I'd hate to see something like this spoil a good friendship. We don't have many friends in life, you might just come out of top if you get the HC job. Then, you can tell who you want about this breach of friendship. But it is dirty, for sure. OJW |
|
|
|
Post by lukethadrifter on Jan 22, 2010 17:40:45 GMT -6
OJW, I like your style and how you put things. We could be related. We speak a lot of the same lingo. I wish we knew each other. Have a good one! Luke
|
|
|
|
Post by mitch on Jan 22, 2010 17:44:49 GMT -6
Very uncool. Can't believe that someone who you have trusted and who has put so much trust in you would do that. You have to have lost much respect for him.
I don't have much good advice, but I know you are still his asst. and it would behoove you to keep a cool head about it. I know that's the thing to do, but don't know if I could do it!!
Oh, and take a couple other certification tests.
|
|
|
|
Post by td4tc on Jan 22, 2010 18:15:15 GMT -6
JG my first thought was to light the guy's hair on fire and put it out with a hammer.then i read preacher Josey's post and i feel kinda guilty for not thinking his way. maybe he's right now that i think about it but.......maybe you could just light the hairs on the back of his hand on fire.
|
|
|
|
Post by iacoachq on Jan 22, 2010 19:13:24 GMT -6
We had this happen at our school.
Before I got here there were two guys up for D-Coordinator. The DC also had to coach LB's. The two guys who were up for it were so-so friends. Wouldn't say tight at all.
One of the candidates was a Varsity full-time offensive coach, the other Sophomore HC/DC. The Varsity full-timer lent the Soph. coach some of his LB stuff making sure to say he wanted it back. It was stuff he and his college coach worked on. The other coach maybe played 2 years of HS ball. Needless to say the varsity coach never got the stuff back.
Then the DC job comes up. Both of them are the top candidates at the time. Guess who's stuff shows up in the other persons portfolio. Word for word without even asking to use it. Would have had no clue about the system if not for the Varsity coach.
Well Soph coach gets the job. This is where karma's a b*tch. Eventually the new DC got ran out because the players threw a mutiny against him because he really had no clue what was up and he was a jerk about stuff most of the time.
The coach whose stuff got stolen is still around and pumping. Never made a fuss, never confronted him. He just kicked back and let the good times roll.
The story is a little vague. There's a lot more to it. Just wanted to give you a little real life scenario to help the thought process.
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Jan 22, 2010 21:46:11 GMT -6
There was this HC I was trying to get on his staff...
Gave him my entire offensive philosophy, powerpoints everything. His team was abysmal, couldn't score, hadn't won a game... but they had talent...
I know, with a few changes here and there, especially with the schedule they had... could easily be a playoff contender... I'm begging to get with this guy, to take him to the playoffs, simply to help turn around a desolate program, that shouldn't have been so desolate. Was buddies with his oc, and wanted to coach his line, and help his defense, as they were so fundamentally so unsound.
Anyway, coach tells me how he'd never run my stuff, didn't want me blah, blah, blah...
Yeah, you guessed it... they run my system, verbatim... still lacking the finer details mind you... and have one of their better seasons in a long time... should have went to the playoffs, but then again, leadership had too many issues to be successful.
So now my system is championed as his system. Had the nerve to talk to me one day about how the youth league wasn't running his system properly? Wow!
If I would have kept my mouth closed the clown would have been fired by now. Then again, shame on me for loving the game so much, and believing none of this is mine... its all been begged, borrowed, and stolen.
So yeah, i gave up my edge, but it will just motivate me to find another.
Though no good deed goes unpunished...
Good things do come to those who wait.
coached up his OC on it, did everything I could to join his staff.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 23, 2010 6:52:23 GMT -6
D@mn..is this a different dcohio???..The Old Dcohio probably would have told me to put sugar in his new Tahoe....  |
|
|
|
Post by airmale on Jan 23, 2010 7:32:25 GMT -6
There probably wouldn't be a coaching profession if we didn't steal from each other. Everything I do and have has been bought, borrowed, or stolen. If I give someone something I expect to see it again somewhere. If I don't, I feel disappointed that it was somehow not up to par. Just hope he gets a better job and takes you with him.  |
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jan 23, 2010 8:56:51 GMT -6
I interviewed for a couple of HC jobs last year w/ the full knowledge of my HC..During the process, I created (IMHO) a great presentation...Mission statement, philosophies, organizational info etc..It was quite detailed and I spent alot of time on it to get it just right..I was proud of it and gave a copy to him to see what he thought what I needed etc...we have a pretty good relationship.....this is his second HC job and I haven't had much luck..anyway...My HC interviewed for a couple of real nice jobs and has one coming up next week. I asked him if he had a presentation and if so could I see it...he told me that he really doesn't hand out much during an interview just like a rules page and a couple of other things...well, I walked into the office today and there sitting in the open on his desk is my presentation EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD that he has used 2 times only with his name on it....I feel two ways about this...#1 it's stealing..it's my chit..I've been betrayed...it's going to come back to bite me and look like I STOLE IT..he should have at least asked ...They other way I feel is well it is a good presentation..I hope he gets the job..I would have a better than average chance of being the HC here...I am a business teacher and most HS admin want a coach in the building, which I don't blame thenm but it really limits my opportunities...Thoughts...Suggestions...advice.... I think you have a pretty legit beef to pick. Not so much the "Hey, you stole my stuff...because quite frankly we know that EVERYONE is using EVERYONE's stuff in football--BUT RATHER the second point you made. I would definitely speak to him about it, and let him know--"hey, I saw your stuff, and I know you probably never considered this, BUT when you use my stuff word for word but you are the head coach, it is going to come off like I am copying YOUR stuff, and I just don't appreciate that. I ESPECIALLY wouldn't have appreciated the not knowing, because I could come off looking like a total fool because I didn't even KNOW you were using my stuff word for word. That is what I would talk to him about. |
|
|
|
Post by jackedup on Jan 23, 2010 9:05:30 GMT -6
JG, the only thing that disturbs me about this is that he told you he doesn't bring anything into interviews... that's a point blank denial of using it. I agree that you are probably better off letting it go but the denial is a not to your friendship. I suggest confronting him like DC mentioned.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 23, 2010 11:40:34 GMT -6
JG, the only thing that disturbs me about this is that he told you he doesn't bring anything into interviews... that's a point blank denial of using it. I agree that you are probably better off letting it go but the denial is a not to your friendship. I suggest confronting him like DC mentioned. Yes..it's the denial that's bothering me the most...I'll probably press him again for a copy of what he is giving just to bust his balls...he'll admit it and I will make a funny condensending remark to make him feel like an idiot when he is not around me...Yeah....we all steal.....I think this is a little different....this was personal stuff..I shared it as a friend....IMO..it's different than sharing cv 2 with the corners cocked..that's stuff on a piece of paper ..this stuff was from my heart...not bits and pieces..word for word |
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Jan 23, 2010 11:43:04 GMT -6
D@mn..is this a different dcohio???..The Old Dcohio probably would have told me to put sugar in his new Tahoe.... Oh, he has a new Tahoe? Well, that changes everything. |
|
|
|
Post by veertackle on Jan 23, 2010 12:11:28 GMT -6
Then how do you know how much to disclose to impress enough to get the job but not enough to lose your edge if you don't get it?
|
|
|
|
Post by coachguy83 on Jan 25, 2010 21:00:22 GMT -6
I have given this situation some thought since this thread was first posted. My gut reaction would be to feel betrayed by a friend and go through the typical cycle of emotions involved in that which would include being ticked, wanting to kill him, and then trying to figure out why he just didn't tell me.
Since he is your friend he probably figures that you wouldn't mind if he used your stuff, which obviously is not the case. That being said you sit him down and tell him that you know that he used your stuff and how you feel about it. You don't have to yell and scream and be angry or do something that will make him acuse you of being a woman. Just tell him, get it off your chest, and move on. He will probably apologize and then you'll find off into the sunset to have a beer or six.
|
|
|
|
Post by reignman03 on Jan 25, 2010 21:43:34 GMT -6
Whether you are upset about this, or not, it needs to be confronted. He needs to know that you are aware of the situation and it is clear that it is your work that he blatantly ripped off. Give credit where credit is due!
|
|
|
|
Post by bleefb on Jan 25, 2010 22:36:06 GMT -6
"NOW...if he had not been a friend, or had been someone whom you had been at odds with over the course of the season...then yea, by all means that conversation should start out "Hey MFer..." DC is BACK!! |
|
|
|
Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 26, 2010 1:17:42 GMT -6
This is a great thread.
It shows how each of us deal with situations and conflict resolution differently.
It's been fun reading all the different "personalities" here. Every bit of the suggestions will work, just done by different people.
Awesome website.
OJW
|
|
lyons
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
|
Post by lyons on Jan 26, 2010 7:05:46 GMT -6
I would think as a friend, he would tell you that he might "borrow" it. The denial part would upset me and if he denies something like this, what has he done before and denied it. Just my stupid thought process.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 26, 2010 9:31:25 GMT -6
I would think as a friend, he would tell you that he might "borrow" it. The denial part would upset me and if he denies something like this, what has he done before and denied it. Just my stupid thought process. Have you heard that sound "white Liar" by Miranda lambert...there is a line in the song that says.."the truth comes out a little at a time"...I've calmed down a little since the weekend and now going with the Rollong stones song.."tiime is on my side"..LOL |
|
mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
|
Post by mce86 on Jan 26, 2010 9:34:00 GMT -6
JG, the only thing that disturbs me about this is that he told you he doesn't bring anything into interviews... that's a point blank denial of using it. I agree that you are probably better off letting it go but the denial is a not to your friendship. I suggest confronting him like DC mentioned. Denying it is the bad part....we all use, and share our stuff, especially when we are on the same staff....but to use it and not thank or give you some credit is pretty shady. ITs not the Be all end all, but its just shady and he is probably embarrased that he is using it without making any changes. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2010 10:05:00 GMT -6
If I were in your situation, I would confront him about it; what he did wasn't ethical. There's a difference between pulling stuff off of the internet or picking up packets at clinic and taking something a friend has developed and used it behind his back. If he had asked you for permission, that's one thing, but IMO, he still needs to put it in his own words.
I worked under an HC 3 years ago that snagged a presentation from someone, but didn't bother to put it in his own words. When he went over it with the kids, parent, and staff, it became pretty obvious that it wasn't his work. Who ever put it together was an excellent writer and probably very well spoken; the HC was not. He stumble over a few words in the packet and didn't really understand HOW the presentation was designed to make a point. He had taken a packet, tossed the school's name and mascot on it and called it good.
But, lot's of 'fifty' cent words in there; which doesn't work if the basis of your vocabulary is 'nickel' words.
So, I guess that I would take it hard on a personal level, but professionally, he's really hindering himself by using a presentation that he doesn't have a firm grasp on actually how to convey on the level to which it is written.
D-mn, I keep getting wordier and wordier on posts... Too much coffee. lol
|
|
sbv
Sophomore Member
Posts: 171
|
Post by sbv on Jan 26, 2010 10:13:54 GMT -6
I've got a guy I coached with, I think his name is sooner on here, that gave me his program manual to copy 5 or 6 years ago as I was pretty green. I copied it word for word to begin with and then adapted it to my own ideas, thoughts and words, as well as some aspects of a manual taken from this site. I feel like my manual is pretty strong and still resembles the original but it made me think about how I wanted to run things when I got my own program. I'd do just about anything for that coach that helped me, not just because he gave me his manual but because I honestly felt like he hoped I would succeed.
As far as him stealing the manual, you really don't have anything to worry about. If you guys apply for the same position somewhere down the road, you had better be able to explain the meaning of things and the thought process better than he can otherwise you probably shouldn't be hired.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 26, 2010 10:21:39 GMT -6
Damn that's shiesty...
If he wasn't your friend and just your boss I'd bite the bullet.
but
because he's your friend I think it gives you the right to MF him and put it out on the table...he's F'ing with your career to promote himself...things need to be hashed out.
I'd do it now while we're all sober because you know it would come out 2-3 yrs from now over some beers & whiskey...
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 26, 2010 10:47:22 GMT -6
Whitemike..i really don't think he's messing w/ my career...it's more in line w/ what cb says above...the stuff is just not in his voice and it's obvious...
|
|
|
|
Post by michwags19 on Jan 26, 2010 11:23:18 GMT -6
He is messing with your career if you are both looking/interviewing in the same area. I wouldn't like to walk into an interview with the same presentation as the guy who just interviewed before me.
I question his integrity. I mean, I steal from whitemike all the time. But I at least tell him. Just last week I took his truck and dog. But I told him.
|
|
red
Freshmen Member
Posts: 71
|
Post by red on Jan 26, 2010 12:02:38 GMT -6
How much of the contents of the manual are things he is doing in his program. Yes you did the work by putting it on paper, but is it all original. Did you make the entire thing up, or did you "borrow" from other coaches’ manuals to complete yours. Maybe he feels like you stole his ideas that he had already put in practice in his program and felt entitled to it?? Is there anything in your manual that came from published books?? But since he lied to you about it, he probably feels guilty about it. I would mention it to him in passing and tell him if he gets the job based partly on your work he owes you an endorsement for his current position. And I agree with coachcb about not having a grasp on what he is handing out at an interview, it will come back to bite him. Remember Karma is a bit*h
|
|
|
|
Post by bigsandwich on Jan 26, 2010 12:25:29 GMT -6
Send me a copy. I'd never use it in an interview. I'd just like to read it..... |
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jan 26, 2010 13:47:18 GMT -6
This coach has not handed out single piece of paper except for a calander to his assistant coaches..not a play, a theory, an assignment...sometimes that is a good thing..I can honestly say that although we all learn from others..I read extensively..I never took a document saved it changed a couple of things and called it mine...for instance..I talk about the japenese concept of "shoshin" the beginners mind..did I make up this term..well no..I read it in a management book and now it is part of wjhat i am..What I do..Approach each opportunity as a beginner...I'll never forget I went to a clinic and there in the front row scribbling notes as fast as he could was Eddie robinson..I thought gosh if he's scribbling notes at that age....
|
|
