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Post by fbcoach74 on Jan 19, 2010 18:50:00 GMT -6
I am looking for some advice at how to get our pop warner coaches to get on board with the varsity program. I am entering my 5th year as a HC and feel if we are to grow as a program and sustain success is is important to have the your league temas at least use the same terminology and base offense and defense. But how do you go about getting them on board? We have met with them and showed them our offense and Defense before their season started but they were unwilling to commmit. So any adive is welcomed.
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Post by blb on Jan 19, 2010 19:03:28 GMT -6
I am looking for some advice at how to get our pop warner coaches to get on board with the varsity program. I am entering my 5th year as a HC and feel if we are to grow as a program and sustain success is is important to have the your league temas at least use the same terminology and base offense and defense. But how do you go about getting them on board? We have met with them and showed them our offense and Defense before their season started but they were unwilling to commmit. So any adive is welcomed. Short answer, you can't. If you coach at most HSs outside of Texas you probably have no control over youth league, especially to hire and fire coaches. All you can do is be cooperative and offer your help as much (or as little) and in any way they desire.
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Post by coachguy83 on Jan 19, 2010 20:52:59 GMT -6
I agree that you can't make them run the stuff that you are running unless the heads of the league are involved. This past season the board of our team decided that it would be in the best interest of the entire program to get on board with the high school. This decision was come to after the high school HC started coming to meetings and showed an interest in the program that continued the entire season. The high school staff was amazing to work with in every way hosting a couple of meetings to show us the offense and defense, inviting us the work the youth camp, and making sure that we had a way to get in contact with at least the HC.
The relationship ended up going both ways as I the OC and I frequently discussed plays and the way that we ran certain things. The relationship also benefited the youth teams as well as the high school. My 7th and 8th grade squad had a winning record for the first time in four years and the 5th and 6th grade squad won a game for the first time in 4 years.
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Post by headtrip on Jan 19, 2010 22:51:09 GMT -6
i'm a youth coach and of the belief that what offense or defense they run now doesn't make much of a difference later. the schemes we run are based on what talent we have and the offensive and defensive schemes we face. imagine having to run a power offense against defenses that are designed to stop power offenses, when your talent is better suited for finesse/speed.
in my opinion, the best thing a hs coach can do with the youth programs is to coach the coaches. work with the youth coaches, teach them how to organize practice, teach them drills and how to run them. have a chalk talk session with them - the coaches may not decide to run your offense or defense, but you can make sure what they are running is sound. you may win some of the coaches over anyway.
the point is, you need skilled players that enjoy the game of football. there are too many variables though. you don't know what position the youth player of today will play in hs, you don't necessarily know what schemes you will be running when they get there, if you're still even there.
teach them how to turn out "players". you have freshman and jv ball to teach these kids your offense and defense, which in a lot of places is way more time than youth coaches get over even a 3 or 4 year period
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CoachDP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 240
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Post by CoachDP on Jan 20, 2010 1:11:22 GMT -6
Headtrip,
That is the best advice you could have offered. If the youth league kids are coming from an organized and well-coached program, as opposed to one that was just high school-scheme or system specific, the kids will benefit greatly as will the high school.
--Dave
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Post by John Knight on Jan 20, 2010 7:53:36 GMT -6
We took over or youth program basically. Instead of having 2 teams that traveled to other towns to play we created a flag league for 2-4th grade and a tackle league for 4-6th graders. 4th graders could choose which they wanted to play.
4 teams of 15-20 kids a team in each league and they play each other rotating by week. The teams were evenly split with no dads loading a team. This way you get 4 different QBs and TB and so forth. More kids get to play and they all run the same basic offense and defense. Sure they could put in a gadget play or two and try to win games but it was mostly very vanilla offense and base defense.
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Post by coachbiggers on Jan 20, 2010 10:11:23 GMT -6
Excellent response Headtrip...
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Post by gacoach on Jan 20, 2010 11:55:32 GMT -6
i'm a youth coach and of the belief that what offense or defense they run now doesn't make much of a difference later. the schemes we run are based on what talent we have and the offensive and defensive schemes we face. imagine having to run a power offense against defenses that are designed to stop power offenses, when your talent is better suited for finesse/speed. in my opinion, the best thing a hs coach can do with the youth programs is to coach the coaches. work with the youth coaches, teach them how to organize practice, teach them drills and how to run them. have a chalk talk session with them - the coaches may not decide to run your offense or defense, but you can make sure what they are running is sound. you may win some of the coaches over anyway. the point is, you need skilled players that enjoy the game of football. there are too many variables though. you don't know what position the youth player of today will play in hs, you don't necessarily know what schemes you will be running when they get there, if you're still even there. teach them how to turn out "players". you have freshman and jv ball to teach these kids your offense and defense, which in a lot of places is way more time than youth coaches get over even a 3 or 4 year period One thing I have found from being a hs coach and having sons who played youth football is that the youth coaches are so egotistical that they don't want anyone to tell them what to run. We have tried as a staff to connect with the local youth programs by hosting youth camps for players and coaches and had youth night at our games. When I talk to the youth coaches they want no part of the high school coaches teaching them anything. I've talked to coaches in the past and all I get is "we can't run that". Ok. I don't know if it's like this everywhere but I have stopped letting my sons play youth football because of this. That and when the league championship games where played at my high school the teams, all youth now, showed up in limos. Whatever. It seems to be more about the mommys and daddys here than the players. They are all dressed out in the best stuff but don't know anything about football. Again, I this is my experience locally and I have no idea what it is like away from North Georgia.
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Post by fbcoach74 on Jan 20, 2010 12:00:30 GMT -6
I have never dictated to our youth league that they have to run certain plays and only run certain things. I am looking at getting our youth program to use the same terminology and teach the same fundamentals. I would never tell them they have to run a certain offense, i understand you have to adjust your offense and defense to your personnel. I just do not understand why a youth program would not want to be a bigger part of the varsity system. We want them to be successful so we can feed successful players into our program. But we have been meet with resistance and am looking for ways to solve that problem.
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Post by blb on Jan 20, 2010 12:12:12 GMT -6
Going on my sixth head HS coaching job and have had varying experiences with youth league coaches - some good, some not.
The way I feel about it now is, why worry if they run "your" offense and defense? How can you be certain that YOU will still be running those same schemes when the current 5th graders get to you - or that you will even still be there?
Be satisfied so long as the kids are learning fundamentals of the game and having fun to the point most of them are still participating when they get to HS or MS program.
If the youth coaches come to you and want to get involved, welcome them with open arms and do whatever you can (playbooks, camp, videos, meetings) and be grateful.
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Post by CatsCoach on Jan 20, 2010 12:28:45 GMT -6
Great Advice Headtrip....
One of local HS has hosted and youth clinc for the last 4 years. And they don't dictated what we should or shouldn't run, they just give us ideas and suggestion as far as drills & what to do at pracitce. The other local HS held a clinc also this year as well. Some of our youth coach are very receptive to the High Schools and some are not. Already some of the assistance coaches from either one of the High Schools already help coach some of the youth teams. This is what has worked for us.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 20, 2010 15:00:51 GMT -6
Headtrip pretty much covered it. Screw the schemes, and X & O's. Start with player camps and coaches clinics. Youth coaches don't need HS X & O's nearly as much as they need to know things like practice organization(HUGE!!!), clock management, effective drills, etc... Community outreach. Ask to be invited to observe a practice. Donate an old tackle bag...whatever. If you take a look at johnknight's & gacoach's posts; you'll get an idea of why there can be such a rift between youth coaches & HS coaches in some cases. Although, I would like to ask what type of O & D do you run, fbcoach74? There is probably a youth version of them and, at least, one successful youth coach that uses either of them. You said that you've been met with resistance. What approaches have you tried? I think there are definite ways to forge a relationship between HS & Youth coaches. Do you speak fluent bobble-head? If you don't; learn how. Some of your ideas, coaching methods, etc... may be great. But, if you can't translate them- or, show a youth coach how to translate them- your program may get rejected.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 20, 2010 15:09:06 GMT -6
If you can just have a productive relationship with them and ask them to be part of what you do on friday nights and be part of what they do on sat/sun in some way then the kids will benefit.
as a guy whos seen blasting of coaches from the lowers my whole career its refreshing to have my own youth coaches asking for info and film etc.
the worst thing is when the lowers as openly critical of the program in front of the kids all driven by their own agenda.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 20, 2010 15:09:36 GMT -6
oh, and equally bad when the uppers are critical of the lowers also driven by their own agenda.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 20, 2010 16:08:14 GMT -6
HC of 8th grade football for 8 years now.
My goal is to send kids up to HS with the knowledge of how to run, block, and tackle...and love the game of football along with all the things that come with it (friends, teamwork, sense of pride etc)
Now, that being said...I run an I-formation lead. The HS runs an I-Formation lead. My backs, holes, and cadence are the same.
But, part of the "fun" of football is being competitive and come gametime running an O and D that gives the kids a chance at winning.
HS right now has a stud HB and is not strong at QB...the group I have next season has a Tebow like QB (big, strong, fast, cannon for an arm). My offense is going to LOOK different then the HS, but, the holes, backs, cadence and terminology is exactly the same.
Help the youth program out as much as possible...remember. Invite the HCs to HS team meetings, work together on fundraisers, and you will have a successful feeder program.
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Post by coachguy83 on Jan 20, 2010 16:58:23 GMT -6
i'm a youth coach and of the belief that what offense or defense they run now doesn't make much of a difference later. the schemes we run are based on what talent we have and the offensive and defensive schemes we face. imagine having to run a power offense against defenses that are designed to stop power offenses, when your talent is better suited for finesse/speed. in my opinion, the best thing a hs coach can do with the youth programs is to coach the coaches. work with the youth coaches, teach them how to organize practice, teach them drills and how to run them. have a chalk talk session with them - the coaches may not decide to run your offense or defense, but you can make sure what they are running is sound. you may win some of the coaches over anyway. the point is, you need skilled players that enjoy the game of football. there are too many variables though. you don't know what position the youth player of today will play in hs, you don't necessarily know what schemes you will be running when they get there, if you're still even there. teach them how to turn out "players". you have freshman and jv ball to teach these kids your offense and defense, which in a lot of places is way more time than youth coaches get over even a 3 or 4 year period One thing I have found from being a hs coach and having sons who played youth football is that the youth coaches are so egotistical that they don't want anyone to tell them what to run. We have tried as a staff to connect with the local youth programs by hosting youth camps for players and coaches and had youth night at our games. When I talk to the youth coaches they want no part of the high school coaches teaching them anything. I've talked to coaches in the past and all I get is "we can't run that". Ok. I don't know if it's like this everywhere but I have stopped letting my sons play youth football because of this. That and when the league championship games where played at my high school the teams, all youth now, showed up in limos. Whatever. It seems to be more about the mommys and daddys here than the players. They are all dressed out in the best stuff but don't know anything about football. Again, I this is my experience locally and I have no idea what it is like away from North Georgia. Coach I don't want to come out of this sounding like a prick but I kind of feel the need to stick up for youth coaches. I am the rare youth coach that is not a dad and is coaching at the youth level to get experience to move up to the next level. That being said most of the time it is not ego that keeps the coaches from running what you run, but rather a desire to coach. The guys you are talking about aren't professionals, but coaching probably wish they were. Coaching Jr's team is as close they are ever going to come to the real deal and they want to prove that they can do it. Saying that it is their ego getting in the way is like saying your ego is getting in the way if you won't do what the local college coach wants you to do. I am a big fan of the high school and youth teams having a connection, and I am lucky enough to work with a great staff that treats me as an equal. They have never told me what I have to run they have simply showed me what they are doing. I run their offense and most of their defense, but do my own thing on special teams. It's a good arrangement and no ego is involved because we all want the same things.
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Post by headtrip on Jan 20, 2010 19:23:45 GMT -6
i'm a youth coach and of the belief that what offense or defense they run now doesn't make much of a difference later. the schemes we run are based on what talent we have and the offensive and defensive schemes we face. imagine having to run a power offense against defenses that are designed to stop power offenses, when your talent is better suited for finesse/speed. in my opinion, the best thing a hs coach can do with the youth programs is to coach the coaches. work with the youth coaches, teach them how to organize practice, teach them drills and how to run them. have a chalk talk session with them - the coaches may not decide to run your offense or defense, but you can make sure what they are running is sound. you may win some of the coaches over anyway. the point is, you need skilled players that enjoy the game of football. there are too many variables though. you don't know what position the youth player of today will play in hs, you don't necessarily know what schemes you will be running when they get there, if you're still even there. teach them how to turn out "players". you have freshman and jv ball to teach these kids your offense and defense, which in a lot of places is way more time than youth coaches get over even a 3 or 4 year period One thing I have found from being a hs coach and having sons who played youth football is that the youth coaches are so egotistical that they don't want anyone to tell them what to run. We have tried as a staff to connect with the local youth programs by hosting youth camps for players and coaches and had youth night at our games. When I talk to the youth coaches they want no part of the high school coaches teaching them anything. I've talked to coaches in the past and all I get is "we can't run that". Ok. I don't know if it's like this everywhere but I have stopped letting my sons play youth football because of this. That and when the league championship games where played at my high school the teams, all youth now, showed up in limos. Whatever. It seems to be more about the mommys and daddys here than the players. They are all dressed out in the best stuff but don't know anything about football. Again, I this is my experience locally and I have no idea what it is like away from North Georgia. no coach anywhere wants any "outsider" to tell them what to run. you have to build the relationship and work with what the coaches are doing. another thing you have to take into consideration is how successful are the teams you're trying to help? if they're in the top tier you're going to run into coaches that don't think they need your help. after all, they're winning so they must be doing something right /sarcasm. be there, offer whatever advice you can, take a roll in the org, and eventually things will turn. it's a lot easier taking advice/criticism from a friend/fellow coach than it is from some outsider-know it all.
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Post by headtrip on Jan 20, 2010 19:48:22 GMT -6
I have never dictated to our youth league that they have to run certain plays and only run certain things. I am looking at getting our youth program to use the same terminology and teach the same fundamentals. I would never tell them they have to run a certain offense, i understand you have to adjust your offense and defense to your personnel. I just do not understand why a youth program would not want to be a bigger part of the varsity system. We want them to be successful so we can feed successful players into our program. But we have been meet with resistance and am looking for ways to solve that problem. you have to realize you are an agent of change, all change is met with resistance. most youth leagues will have a head coaches meeting sometime during the off season, find out when it is and ask to speak to the coaches. state your case. i mean you said it here: just say that, tell them what you think would make that work. work it out between coaches.
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Post by gacoach on Jan 21, 2010 6:40:23 GMT -6
One thing I have found from being a hs coach and having sons who played youth football is that the youth coaches are so egotistical that they don't want anyone to tell them what to run. We have tried as a staff to connect with the local youth programs by hosting youth camps for players and coaches and had youth night at our games. When I talk to the youth coaches they want no part of the high school coaches teaching them anything. I've talked to coaches in the past and all I get is "we can't run that". Ok. I don't know if it's like this everywhere but I have stopped letting my sons play youth football because of this. That and when the league championship games where played at my high school the teams, all youth now, showed up in limos. Whatever. It seems to be more about the mommys and daddys here than the players. They are all dressed out in the best stuff but don't know anything about football. Again, I this is my experience locally and I have no idea what it is like away from North Georgia. Coach I don't want to come out of this sounding like a prick but I kind of feel the need to stick up for youth coaches. I am the rare youth coach that is not a dad and is coaching at the youth level to get experience to move up to the next level. That being said most of the time it is not ego that keeps the coaches from running what you run, but rather a desire to coach. The guys you are talking about aren't professionals, but coaching probably wish they were. Coaching Jr's team is as close they are ever going to come to the real deal and they want to prove that they can do it. Saying that it is their ego getting in the way is like saying your ego is getting in the way if you won't do what the local college coach wants you to do. I am a big fan of the high school and youth teams having a connection, and I am lucky enough to work with a great staff that treats me as an equal. They have never told me what I have to run they have simply showed me what they are doing. I run their offense and most of their defense, but do my own thing on special teams. It's a good arrangement and no ego is involved because we all want the same things. No, it's ego. The coaches I have spoken to here are also the ones who sit in the stands at the varsity games commenting on how they could do a much better job than the varsity coaches. If that's not ego I don't know what is. Believe, football in Georiga and football in Illinois is much different. I am from Illinois.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 21, 2010 14:04:54 GMT -6
Everyone in the stands I've ever heard at any sport at any level has said the same, every time.
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Post by coachguy83 on Jan 21, 2010 22:03:47 GMT -6
Coach I don't want to come out of this sounding like a prick but I kind of feel the need to stick up for youth coaches. I am the rare youth coach that is not a dad and is coaching at the youth level to get experience to move up to the next level. That being said most of the time it is not ego that keeps the coaches from running what you run, but rather a desire to coach. The guys you are talking about aren't professionals, but coaching probably wish they were. Coaching Jr's team is as close they are ever going to come to the real deal and they want to prove that they can do it. Saying that it is their ego getting in the way is like saying your ego is getting in the way if you won't do what the local college coach wants you to do. I am a big fan of the high school and youth teams having a connection, and I am lucky enough to work with a great staff that treats me as an equal. They have never told me what I have to run they have simply showed me what they are doing. I run their offense and most of their defense, but do my own thing on special teams. It's a good arrangement and no ego is involved because we all want the same things. No, it's ego. The coaches I have spoken to here are also the ones who sit in the stands at the varsity games commenting on how they could do a much better job than the varsity coaches. If that's not ego I don't know what is. Believe, football in Georiga and football in Illinois is much different. I am from Illinois. We've found your problem coach. They don't sit in the stands and think they can out coach you, they know they can out coach you. You're from Illinois. Yankees like us don't know jack sh!t about football. ;D
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Post by fbcoach74 on Jan 22, 2010 12:52:34 GMT -6
the school I coach with has never had a good relationship with the pop warner league teams. I am trying to change that. We have been hosting a combined youth camp the past two years and prior to that the hs has put one on. So it is moving hopefully in the right direction. We meet with their coaches as a group in the summer this year. I have invited them to our preseason and in season practices, but not have taken the opportunity.
My hope is to get them to feel like they are part of our program and that if they teach the skills and terminology it will transition into the middle school program and then to us. We run a option based offense and a base 4-3 defense.
Our biggest problem is they are hesitant to get involved and are quick to talk bad about us and that has been the problem for over 20 years and one that 8 head coaches have tried get fixed. So I am looking at other ways to maybe get them on board.
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Post by coachguy83 on Jan 22, 2010 13:00:41 GMT -6
Honestly I think the combined camp is a very good start. You are also doing a great thing by opening up and meeting with the coaches.
Have you tried talking to them about the type of stuff they like to run?
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Post by headtrip on Jan 22, 2010 18:22:03 GMT -6
over that period how successful have each of the programs been? a successful hs program should not meet the resistance from a youth program that you are describing. i could be wrong, but it sounds like the youth program is fairly successful and the hs isn't. so you wind up with youth coaches who think they know it all and that thing the hs coaches don't know anything.
you're going to have to prove yourself in the summer coaches meeting. have your oc and dc go over what they are running offering suggestions for how they could fix problems, show them plays from your o and d, how you would handle that situation. don't make it about what you do, make it about trying to make what they do better. then discuss trying to get some continuity between the programs. it's going to be a give and take deal. you are going to have to work out something with them, that way they have some ownership of it.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 22, 2010 20:39:31 GMT -6
the school I coach with has never had a good relationship with the pop warner league teams. I am trying to change that. We have been hosting a combined youth camp the past two years and prior to that the hs has put one on. So it is moving hopefully in the right direction. We meet with their coaches as a group in the summer this year. I have invited them to our preseason and in season practices, but not have taken the opportunity. My hope is to get them to feel like they are part of our program and that if they teach the skills and terminology it will transition into the middle school program and then to us. We run a option based offense and a base 4-3 defense. Our biggest problem is they are hesitant to get involved and are quick to talk bad about us and that has been the problem for over 20 years and one that 8 head coaches have tried get fixed. So I am looking at other ways to maybe get them on board. These types of threads always crop up. Youth coaches usually plainly state what types of things will help forge relationships and, it seems that whatever they post is ignored or countered by HS coaches with arguments and viewpoints that don't really mean sh!t to a youth coach. Yeah, I know that sounds harsh. But, there it is. Coach, sounds like you have a great opportunity here. Before you meet with those coaches this summer, I'd suggest that you get to know your audience. If you want to know how to relate to youth coaches, I’d go to a youth football site and get familiar with their culture. About the best youth football site that I can think of is: www.dumcoach.com/. Whatever you want to know, need to know or, ought to know about youth football has been covered there. I wouldn’t go to a meeting with youth coaches with the approach that I’m ‘bringing the light’ to the unwashed masses. I would approach with the attitude that I’m trying to get my garden to grow. Sounds like some of the HS coaches in the past planted seeds in the garden but, didn’t do much to nurture it. Not surprising that they didn’t get much yield from their efforts. You may have to give up some of your terminology in exchange for getting the kids to execute the action. This post is long, as it is. I won’t try to give out a thousand different examples. But, for example, you may have to give up the term ‘up & out’ route. Who cares? Let the kids call it a dipsy-doodle as long as they are being taught the correct way to run the route. I have no doubt that your staff can educate youth coaches. You and your HS staff are (hopefully) spending time preparing to educate some youth coaches this summer. But, how much time have you spent preparing to be educated by youth coaches? Many youth coaches spend a lot of time breaking down higher-level football terminology & schemes into concepts & techniques that their players can understand. You may have to ask them questions and listen to what they have to say to get their players to the point that you want them to be in the future when they become your players. Not only listen to them but, you may have to follow it because it’s the best way to get the job done at youth level. Is your staff prepared to possibly listen and learn from youth coaches? Lastly, 8 different HC’s in 20yrs may not inspire a lot of youth coaches to take your HS program overly serious. That’s a new HC with new ideas, philosophies, schemes, etc… every 2.5yrs. I’m one of the ‘baby’ coaches in my league. Next season will be my 5th with my youth team. I feel that I am just now hitting my stride. But, I will have matched two of your HS’s HC’s in terms of commitment to the program and the kids. Show those youth coaches why they should view your program as different. Better yet; prove to them that your program IS different. They’ll come around and you’ll reap the benefits.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 23, 2010 6:30:35 GMT -6
Oh hey, let me add something positive here.
have a youth night. we had one and it fired up my whole team and the whole program. we had the ms and youth teams come into the gym in pregame and we did our pregame reps there for everyone to see. we even had the ms team be the "cone defense" for us as we repped our plays. that was cool.
then as part of pregame warmup we had the ENTIRE PROGRAM- a zillion kids on the field stretching and doing dynamic warmout out there....it was cool. we had all the kids "form the wall" again in pregame and then they all stood behind our bench. we introduced them at halftime (as a team) ....we scored 70 points that night.
In any case, it was fun for all and I think a great way to *bond* on some level by driving home the point that its about the kids and the program as a whole. we dont all run the exact same stuff but everyone runs some dw and I do share my materials without ever saying "run this". I also gave tee shirts out to the guys who showed support.
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hawksoc
Probationary Member
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Post by hawksoc on Jan 24, 2010 13:43:53 GMT -6
I have to comment on this one. Before I go on I will admit that I am a youth coach....for 12 years. So before I even start some of you will say that I, like "all youth coaches" are egotistical idiots who are out to ruin the HS team. If this is you forget ever forging any relationship with anyone except your reflection.
For the rest of you let me relate what happens in my neighborhood. To start the youth leagues require and usually pays for training for all coaches. The league has sent me to the Tom Bass clinics at the Charger training facility for years. I have also been to three Glazier clinics in the past six years.
In addition the local high schools all put on youth player clinics for the area youth players. The clinics are run by the HS coaches and staffed by HS players. The HS coaches also run coaching clinics for the youth coaches. The emphasis is fundamentals, drills, practice organization etc.
The emphasis has always been fundamentals, drills, practice organization etc. Fifteen of the players on my team last season are going to five different high schools who run five different schemes. So much for running what the HS does.
The whole thing works because the attitudes do not include the idea that the other guy is a rube. The coaches on both sides here seem to get along with our counterparts. I have been welcomed at HS practices and the coaches have never been anything but supportive. I have also seen the local HS coaches at youth practices and games.
Does this work? Last season the youth league I coach in had five or six teams playing in championship games. In the division I coached in we played against another team from our own organization. At the same time two of the local high schools that our players go to played each other in a CIF section championship.
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