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Post by wildbunch on Jan 17, 2010 22:42:44 GMT -6
Has anyone here ever given thought to changing names in their defenses or something similar (anything that makes no difference whatsoever to your team) in order to keep the local "experts" at bay?
For example calling your defense a 3-4 instead of a 5-2 or "implementing" a "4-2-5 package" to supplement your 4-4?
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Post by coachplaa on Jan 17, 2010 22:47:40 GMT -6
YES! Just do it Coach. We've done that too with offense. When I first started at our previous school, many people didn't like the "wing-t" because it was a run only offense that couldn't come from behind when losing. That was their opinion, not mine. So we put the dive back in the slot and split out the Tight End, ran the same stuff, but called it a Spread offense. That made all of our "fans" much happier. We didn't appease anyone, we just did something a little different and it worked.
I've also never been a big fan of the term 3-3 defense. It sounds feeble and easy to attack with the Run. We are going to that scheme this year, but we are going to call it a "Stack Attack" defense.
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stylee
Sophomore Member
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Post by stylee on Jan 18, 2010 0:01:28 GMT -6
We're not an option team, we're a "Spread" team!
And this isn't even to appease fans (we don't have those), this is to appease players!
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 18, 2010 3:36:09 GMT -6
we do it with our kids... lets them think they are cooler
We have run basically a 5-2 and 5-3 defense the last 2 years. Our TNT are down in a 3 point stance, with 2 stand up ends outside,
we tell our kids that it is a 3-4 and that they are OLBs, not DEs... found out that kids are more excited to be playing linebacker rather than DE.
Just a mental thing we found out worked with our kids
If given the choice between playing DE, and OLB, 99% of the kids at my school would choose OLB
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smu92
Junior Member
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Post by smu92 on Jan 18, 2010 9:47:39 GMT -6
we do it with our kids... lets them think they are cooler We have run basically a 5-2 and 5-3 defense the last 2 years. Our TNT are down in a 3 point stance, with 2 stand up ends outside, we tell our kids that it is a 3-4 and that they are OLBs, not DEs... found out that kids are more excited to be playing linebacker rather than DE. Just a mental thing we found out worked with our kids If given the choice between playing DE, and OLB, 99% of the kids at my school would choose OLB Good example coach. I think a lot of us have done this same thing. |
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stylee
Sophomore Member
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Post by stylee on Jan 18, 2010 9:59:49 GMT -6
Yeah, we run a de facto 5-3.
But instead of OLBs, we have TWO "Strong Safeties."
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Post by poweriguy on Jan 18, 2010 12:34:09 GMT -6
Yeah, we run a de facto 5-3. But instead of OLBs, we have TWO "Strong Safeties." Hehe. Yeah we did pretty much the same with our 5-3. Our DE's were "stud" and "hero" and our Mike backer was "monster". |
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Post by lochness on Jan 18, 2010 13:57:26 GMT -6
Christ...
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Post by phantom on Jan 18, 2010 14:03:59 GMT -6
Just call yourself "Multiple". It sounds high tech and really doesn't mean anything.
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hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by hawke on Jan 18, 2010 14:54:36 GMT -6
Agree with phantom but I have a funny story as to how we came to be a 34 rather than a 52. (incidentally our 34 is a ba____dized 52). We had a young man who wanted to be a LB in the worst way. The guys in front of him were much better than he but we new he could play somewhere such as DE. It frustrated him immensely that he was going to be a DE rather than a LB, so lo and behold I just told him in this defense there are no DEs they are OLBs. You may not be an ILB but an OLB which is highly regarded in this "34 concept." He turned out to be a very good player at his OLB position even though in those days we were more 52 than 34 and we still are to some extent but we call it a 34 using the previous term I mentioned. As far as changing names of the defenses to screw up others NO, I'd only screw up myself. Even though we are at another school now I use the same names and even hand signals that I used for 38 yrs at the other place. In fact the names are still the same as when phantom played for us and that is ancient history.
Hawke
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Post by coachguy83 on Jan 18, 2010 15:03:40 GMT -6
That is why I am going to run the 3-3-5 defense. It sounds fancy and I can easily run a 5-3 out of it if it better fits my personnel. Heck I've even put a 4-4 package in if that works better, but the kids thinks it's cool running a 3-3-5. I still haven't quite figured out how to make the single wing cool, because I refuse to call it wildcat.
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Post by cnunley on Jan 18, 2010 17:37:28 GMT -6
We are a Wing-T/Flexbone style offense. (Leaning more to the Wing-T side of things)
Wing-T is too boring for our players so anytime I refer to what we run I say "Wing-T/Flexbone 'HYBRID'"
Because we are a "Hybrid" offense it's much better.
Simple things for simple minds I guess. Whatever makes them happy
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Post by warriorhog51 on Jan 18, 2010 19:21:16 GMT -6
I think its a little sad that we have to change the names of things to make the players happy. As a college coach, it can make things difficult in the recruiting process. If I look at a kid on film and he is a stand-up DE in a 5-2, I am probably going to recruit him as a DE. Now, if he has been told for the last three years that he is an OLB, its hard for him to swallow the truth that he is actually a DE. He will often get turned off that he isn't getting recruited to be an OLB when all along he has been a DE. Its just something that I come across when I am dealing with these kids as they are going through the recruiting process.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Jan 18, 2010 19:36:50 GMT -6
We run a "4-4" even though it's really a 6-2 in terms of rules. I coach with a real old school coach and he always called the outside guys DE's for as long as he could remember. Our defense was very poor the first week or so. I was stubborn and badgered him to start calling them OLBer's and once we started doing that, the edge play became a lot better, those "OLBers" were much more excited when we practiced defense.
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1/11th
Sophomore Member
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Post by 1/11th on Jan 18, 2010 19:45:02 GMT -6
I have found that when you install a speical look, front, coverage or blitz if you let the kids name it then they take more equitty in it. As long as they are sincere of course...
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Post by mitch on Jan 18, 2010 21:41:56 GMT -6
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Post by coachks on Jan 18, 2010 21:42:40 GMT -6
I'm intrigued with the I-option offense. However, when/if Iever have to sell it to admin/fans/players I'll refer to it as a "pro style" offense. If they know enough to know that I'm making it up, hopefully they aren't the type to think being modern is important.
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Post by wildbunch on Jan 18, 2010 22:22:54 GMT -6
Can you please explain your frustrations? I was just trying to work an easy way around the "fans" who can be disruptive to the program while still keeping the actual team functioning as it always does. |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 18, 2010 22:34:31 GMT -6
We kinda did that this year, annoyed me from a couple different angles.
One, our interim HC kept refering to our offense as our new "Spread Offense", which was just dumb as hell for me. We've been fly for a decade, we've been able to run out of the gun for about 5 years, there's very little that's "Spread" about us, imo. Two, we went around town telling everyone the offense was different, but it was the same ol' crap for the bulk of the season. This bugged me because it made liars out of the offensive staff, and me by extension. Three, he went around telling everyone we were now running a "Pittsburgh Steelers 3-4 zone blitz defense", when really most've the scheme came from UVA, Boise, and Willamette's 3-4 packages. Again, made me feel like a liar.
The kids bought it, all year for the defense and most've the year for the offense. Personally, it made me feel a little dirty to be lying, whether intentionally or otherwise, in order to gain credibility. I'm not saying I should never be questioned, because that's definitely not the case, but I want to be trusted that if I'm doing something, it's because it's good and the best thing for the team.
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 19, 2010 2:15:06 GMT -6
That is why I am going to run the 3-3-5 defense. It sounds fancy and I can easily run a 5-3 out of it if it better fits my personnel. Heck I've even put a 4-4 package in if that works better, but the kids thinks it's cool running a 3-3-5. I still haven't quite figured out how to make the single wing cool, because I refuse to call it wildcat. instead of wildcat, call it something cool like Roadrunner... or whatever your mascot is |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 10:31:42 GMT -6
Say you run a "Pro" anything...parents will love you for it
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Post by mitch on Jan 20, 2010 11:07:04 GMT -6
Can you please explain your frustrations? I was just trying to work an easy way around the "fans" who can be disruptive to the program while still keeping the actual team functioning as it always does. No offense, I'm just not into appeasement. I think if you have fans disrupting your program, you probably aren't going to fix it by changing the name of your defense, either. |
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Post by fatkicker on Jan 20, 2010 12:24:57 GMT -6
it's not just the fans..... don't dare tell a younger dc that his 3-3 is a 5-3..... you might have to fight your way out of the coaches office....
"heck naw man....i got this d off the super duper 3-3 stack website. man....this stuff is high tech. this ain't no dang 5-3. that defense is for old timers."
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Post by robinhood on Jan 20, 2010 14:34:59 GMT -6
As long as the kids align in the correct place and execute their techniques it doesn't matter what you call the offense or defense.
The names used for the offense and defense have no effect on how well the kids play, so, if you need to make the kids/parents happy with a name, go ahead.
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hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by hawke on Jan 20, 2010 14:59:26 GMT -6
Changing names to appease fans is quite different than changing to make a player more aware or happier in his position. Most kids are recruited as football players rather than strict position players. For example the kid who may have been recruited as a TE winds up to be a glorified tackle at some schools and that great HS receiver winds up being a DB , etc. You change for kids because you knopw how to relate to the kids. We all can't have the great athletes but we do have kids who want to play. The biggest thing any coach at any level can do is to relate to his players even it means appeasing them in unconventional ways as long as it is fair to all others on the team. If you can't relate to your players, on any level, you will soon be looking for another job. And if you do things to appease your fans you are looking for trouble. As a coach (1) communicate properly, (2) don't overcoach, (3) be yourself, (4) be loyal to your school, (5) be decisive, (6) be ambitious. If you try to appease one fan there will many more in your ear. Understand that today we are faced with a myriad of helicopter parents. Everyone's kid is going to a D1 school and will be all pro eventually if you give him the chance. Sit down and talk to these people and be honest with them.
Hawke
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Post by lochness on Jan 20, 2010 16:27:45 GMT -6
Can you please explain your frustrations? I was just trying to work an easy way around the "fans" who can be disruptive to the program while still keeping the actual team functioning as it always does. No offense, I'm just not into appeasement. I think if you have fans disrupting your program, you probably aren't going to fix it by changing the name of your defense, either. My frustration is that it's meaningless foolishness. I can call a "dive" the "Thermonuclear Devistation" play and I can call my defense the "Speed Lightning Mega Blitzer 3000" but if I suck as a coach and we're not fundamentally sound, none of that really matters. I try to spend most of my time on developing players, getting us disciplined, and trying to out-execute people with sound, proven schemes. You know what we call our base defense? "Base!" The day I devote any significant time to "naming" something so that kids will think it's "Neat-O" and fans will think I'm "cutting edge" is the day you'll find me hanging by my neck in the field house. That's all that is "frustrating..." |
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Post by schenk11 on Jan 20, 2010 20:41:58 GMT -6
We have done it, makes no real difference to us but it makes happier to hear it called what they want.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 20, 2010 21:19:58 GMT -6
No offense, I'm just not into appeasement. I think if you have fans disrupting your program, you probably aren't going to fix it by changing the name of your defense, either. My frustration is that it's meaningless foolishness. I can call a "dive" the "Thermonuclear Devistation" play and I can call my defense the "Speed Lightning Mega Blitzer 3000" but if I suck as a coach and we're not fundamentally sound, none of that really matters. I try to spend most of my time on developing players, getting us disciplined, and trying to out-execute people with sound, proven schemes. You know what we call our base defense? "Base!" The day I devote any significant time to "naming" something so that kids will think it's "Neat-O" and fans will think I'm "cutting edge" is the day you'll find me hanging by my neck in the field house. That's all that is "frustrating..." Amen The day I worry about what the fans want us to call our schemes is the day I quit. My guess is if your trying to keep the fans happy with fancy names then what ever you are doing on the field isn't working to well. |
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Post by coachks on Jan 20, 2010 21:57:17 GMT -6
My frustration is that it's meaningless foolishness. I can call a "dive" the "Thermonuclear Devistation" play and I can call my defense the "Speed Lightning Mega Blitzer 3000" but if I suck as a coach and we're not fundamentally sound, none of that really matters. I try to spend most of my time on developing players, getting us disciplined, and trying to out-execute people with sound, proven schemes. You know what we call our base defense? "Base!" The day I devote any significant time to "naming" something so that kids will think it's "Neat-O" and fans will think I'm "cutting edge" is the day you'll find me hanging by my neck in the field house. That's all that is "frustrating..." One doensn't exclude the others though. I think we have all seen good coaches get railroaded because the run the "Wing-T." Does a coach suddenly forget to coach the basics because he called it the West Coast Offense when a parent asked him what it was? |
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Post by wildbunch on Jan 20, 2010 22:57:32 GMT -6
Can you please explain your frustrations? I was just trying to work an easy way around the "fans" who can be disruptive to the program while still keeping the actual team functioning as it always does. No offense, I'm just not into appeasement. I think if you have fans disrupting your program, you probably aren't going to fix it by changing the name of your defense, either. Not appeasement really, bad description by me (and I agree that you shouldn't do anything to appease fans). I just me changing over to a more "modern" name to prevent anyone from saying anything in the future. And fans aren't being disrptive to or program, I was just throwing out an idea of how make sure NFL fan Joe never becomes a problem. |
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