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Post by 19delta on Jan 13, 2010 21:18:53 GMT -6
We are coming off my first season as head coach. Found out through the grapevine that one of my top assistants has applied for the head coaching position at a crosstown school.
Now...I'm not one to hold anyone back. I guess what disappoints me is that he didn't talk to me about it. This is a guy who was our defensive coordinator this past season and was going to take over the sophomore program next season. He's a guy I would have liked to thought I had a really good relationship with...certainly, a good enough relationship that he could have talked to me about applying for head coaching gigs.
Heck...I would have written the guy a letter of recommendation. And if that school calls me now and wants to know about him...I'll be honest. I'll tell them that he's a hard working, ambitious guy who will give them a great effort and that I'm sorry to be losing him.
Is this something I should be worried about? My concern is that this is more of a reflection on me than it is one him...that somehow I have created a climate on the staff in which assistant coaches don't feel they can be honest with me.
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Jan 13, 2010 21:48:24 GMT -6
Coach i wouldnt take it personally. You could have established a great atmosphere and he may jsut be the type of guy who would be worried about what would happen if he asked you. I obviously dont know, just saying. Maybe he was worried about what would have happened if he had not gotten the job across town and what would happen at your school.
Sorry if this didnt help much, just my 2 cents
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Post by coachorr on Jan 13, 2010 23:19:13 GMT -6
Not a personal issue. At the end of the day everyone has to do what is best for him and his family. Not everyone would have been so kind as to write a letter of recommendation. How is he to know who you might be when he says he might be leaving? I absolutely don't think it has anything to do with a climate you may have created. You may want to talk to someone on staff who you trust to see if there is any bad mojo on staff due to you. Based on your posts in the past, I would highly doubt it.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 14, 2010 4:04:25 GMT -6
I cant blame the guy for not talking to you about it. Nowadays guys completely distort the meaning of LOYALTY to the point of making it tough to talk to the header about ones career goals. sad, unfortunate but true.
wish your assistant luck, make a phone call on his behalf. tell him hes welcome back if it doesnt work out. never know, maybe one day he holds the key to a job you want.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 14, 2010 4:37:57 GMT -6
I would not take it personally.
If it were me I would approach him and tell him you heard he applied, and wish him luck. Tell him what you said on here, that you'll miss him if he gets the job, but wish him the best in the interview process. It will let him know that people find things out through backdoor channels anyway so he should have been up front to begin with.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Jan 14, 2010 7:04:11 GMT -6
Coming from the assistant's position it can be scary to even consider talking to a coach about leaving the staff for another job, especially if it's for a rival/ conference team in the best of circumstances. I think often times I think we assistants feel that if we tell HCs that we're looking at other places we might lose the HC's trust, get a bad recommendation, etc. Often times it is unjustified, but I've seen how it can become a real ugly situation. Best recommendation I have would be to talk to the guy, wih him good luck, offer recommendation, and offer to have hm back if he doesn"t get the job.
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Post by superpower on Jan 14, 2010 7:05:59 GMT -6
19delta, as the others have said, I would let him know that you have heard about it, wish him the best, ask him if you can do anything to help him, etc.
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Post by blb on Jan 14, 2010 7:29:53 GMT -6
I like to have assistants who have career ambitions related to football such as becoming head coaches in their own right.
I encourage them to do so, and do everything I can to help them.
That said, I think it was unprofessional and would puzzle me personally that your assistant did not tell you he was applying elsewhere.
Lou Holtz would tell him he'd better get that job...
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Post by tog on Jan 14, 2010 7:51:30 GMT -6
he should have told you
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 14, 2010 8:04:43 GMT -6
This is a guy who was our defensive coordinator this past season and was going to take over the sophomore program next season. you were demoting him? or were you adding to his list of duties? if pure demotion to the subvarsity: what did you think was going to happen? move a guy from the defensive coordinator position to the sub-varsity and most will be looking to leave. what conversations did you have with him when you told him he was going to be the sophomore coach instead of the dc? how did he take it? if adding to his plate: how much work is he already doing for the program? at a highly efficient/effective program the coordinators do a ton of work so it is usually better to give other assistants the subvarsity "leadership" roles. when having this discussion did you explain how it would work? did he vocalize any concerns about this? depending on how the conversations between you two went may have lead to his 'behavior' not to tell you. i know this, if my ad demoted me from coordinator to the subvarsity i wouldn't be too concerned about his "feelings" when i applied for other jobs. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 14, 2010 8:27:00 GMT -6
I like to have assistants who have career ambitions related to football such as becoming head coaches in their own right. I encourage them to do so, and do everything I can to help them. That said, I think it was unprofessional and would puzzle me personally that your assistant did not tell you he was applying elsewhere. Lou Holtz would tell him he'd better get that job... YES...I am a DC and have applied for other HC jobs.. I have always told the HC and the principal of our school (I teach here)..It's just common professional courtesy.... |
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 14, 2010 8:51:52 GMT -6
You know what...I would take it personally..but that's just me ...I take most things personally..I mean if I am an asst..really if you have any relationship w/ the HC what's he going to do????If he acts like an A-hole well that's what he is...How in he11 did he get HIS first job..The HC really has no choice except to support the decision of one of his coaches to advance his career
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Post by rcole on Jan 14, 2010 8:59:27 GMT -6
I don't think it is a reflection on you. I learned early on that people will find out anyway so it is best to just tell them up front, even if you don't feel comfortable with them. And I do think it is the right thing to do. If the people that you work for would hold it against you if you talked to them about another job, what do you think they are going to do when they find out you went behind their backs to pursue another opportunity...do any of you actually think that will work out better? I will guarantee you they will find out no matter how you handle it. I always tell my head coach and my principal before I send a resume. They are going to receive a call and I don't want it to be a surprise. That will burn bridges. I am well connected in my region so I might talk to "friends" about possibilities without telling my current employers, but if I am sending a resume or meeting with an administrator I make sure they know first.
The guy I work for now, I talk to him about whatever I'm thinking, that is just the relationship we have. I put in for one job this year and didn't get it...I told him and my principal and kept them updated every step of the way. I have been contacted by another school where I would most likely be the leading candidate (as in they solicited me without my expressing interest in the job). I told my coach what was going on and told him what I was thinking. In fact we met to discuss it at length and to work through the pros and cons of the situation. If I send a resume I will tell my principal.
Have you and this guy ever discussed his ambitions? Have you tried to be a mentor to him in his career? I've worked for some good head coaches that I liked, and I've worked for some that were mentors to me. How old is he? I probably would have mishandled it when I was 25, but I had learned better by 30.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 14, 2010 9:05:38 GMT -6
still want to know if this was a demotion... from the original post it leads me to that point ... moving the guy from the defensive coordinator of the varsity (of the program, essentially) to the subvarsity level as the "sophomore head coach"... how would we handle such a demotion? would we be looking for another job? i would... would we be as concerned with how the head coach felt about it or if he knew about it? i mean, if we were demoted would we be more concerned with getting another job or with passifying the head coaches feelings?
now, i'm not saying that is what happened in THIS case, but if it did it could have played a part in why the assistant didn't notify his head coach. likewise, we (in the head coaches role) should consider this before villifying the assistant.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
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Post by kahok on Jan 14, 2010 9:08:34 GMT -6
I'm with Huey here. If I was demoted from Varsity OC to sophomore head coach, you can bet my resume would be flying around to any school that needed a header. Especially one that played against the school that demoted me.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 14, 2010 17:10:23 GMT -6
still want to know if this was a demotion... from the original post it leads me to that point ... moving the guy from the defensive coordinator of the varsity (of the program, essentially) to the subvarsity level as the "sophomore head coach"... how would we handle such a demotion? would we be looking for another job? i would... would we be as concerned with how the head coach felt about it or if he knew about it? i mean, if we were demoted would we be more concerned with getting another job or with passifying the head coaches feelings? now, i'm not saying that is what happened in THIS case, but if it did it could have played a part in why the assistant didn't notify his head coach. likewise, we (in the head coaches role) should consider this before villifying the assistant. I don't think I have villified anyone in my post. If anything, I have been very complimentary of the guy. At the end-of-the-season evaluation meeting between the two of us, we discussed his career goals and he stated that he wanted to be a head coach. We talked about the fact that he was a very young guy (last year was only his 2nd year coaching) and that he should get some experience on the offensive side of the ball. I brought up the possibility of him taking over the sophomore program. When I told him that, he actually said that he was thinking the same thing and it would be good for him to get experience on the offensive side of the ball along with all of the "head coaching" duties that come along with running the sophomore program. He was very enthusiastic about the idea. In regards to levels and all that...we really don't get into that. The sophomore coaches both are on the sidelines (actually in the box) during the varsity game and the varsity coaches assist during the sophomore game. |
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smu92
Junior Member
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Post by smu92 on Jan 17, 2010 18:50:45 GMT -6
still want to know if this was a demotion... from the original post it leads me to that point ... moving the guy from the defensive coordinator of the varsity (of the program, essentially) to the subvarsity level as the "sophomore head coach"... how would we handle such a demotion? would we be looking for another job? i would... would we be as concerned with how the head coach felt about it or if he knew about it? i mean, if we were demoted would we be more concerned with getting another job or with passifying the head coaches feelings? now, i'm not saying that is what happened in THIS case, but if it did it could have played a part in why the assistant didn't notify his head coach. likewise, we (in the head coaches role) should consider this before villifying the assistant. I don't think I have villified anyone in my post. If anything, I have been very complimentary of the guy. At the end-of-the-season evaluation meeting between the two of us, we discussed his career goals and he stated that he wanted to be a head coach. We talked about the fact that he was a very young guy (last year was only his 2nd year coaching) and that he should get some experience on the offensive side of the ball. I brought up the possibility of him taking over the sophomore program. When I told him that, he actually said that he was thinking the same thing and it would be good for him to get experience on the offensive side of the ball along with all of the "head coaching" duties that come along with running the sophomore program. He was very enthusiastic about the idea. In regards to levels and all that...we really don't get into that. The sophomore coaches both are on the sidelines (actually in the box) during the varsity game and the varsity coaches assist during the sophomore game. Sounds like a demotion to me. |
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Post by coachjr on Jan 17, 2010 18:58:07 GMT -6
I believe it is professional courtesy to tell the head coach you are applying for another position. Then, it's professional courtesy for the head coach
to ask if he can do anything to assist. That being said, I think there is more to this in reading the coach is going from a varsity coordinator position to a head coach at a lower level than varsity.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 17, 2010 19:12:12 GMT -6
I'm a little familiar with Delta's situation...
1. The school is in a non-football town, and coaches are at a premium... meaning, he probably only has 5 to 6 coaches on the staff total, for a school with a couple thousand kids.
2. With coaching being at a premium, this coach with limited experience, can probably get the gig.
3. Yes, Delt should take this personal, as a statement that the relationships he thinks he may have with his Assts. may not be what they seem. There is a disconnect somewhere. This Asst. may be a bad guy, and feel he needs to back door the situation.
Or, Delt is giving off a vibe that he's not for the betterment of his assts. and that it appears that he's the type of guy that would stifle his assts. progress.
Knowing Delt... nothing could be further from the truth... however, perception is reality.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 17, 2010 21:14:07 GMT -6
I am a young OC and have applied started to apply for HC jobs. I always inform our HC about what I am doing, heck, he is the top guy on my list of references, don't want him to learn from someone else if I apply! I just believe that it is common courtesy but I have also always been upfront that running a program is my career goal and I believe that he appreciates my candor,. I know I would want the same as a Header.
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Post by coachks on Jan 17, 2010 21:36:14 GMT -6
Just my .02 cents here... (as a young coach).
He should have told you he was applying. He also may not have known that. My generation lacks social skills and etiquette.
I wouldn't take it personal, but I would have a talk with him about how things are properly handled. If he does it again, then there is a problem.
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Jan 17, 2010 21:46:08 GMT -6
It doesnt sound like a "demotion" especially if they were both on the same page. The OC said that he was " thinking the same thing" when approached by Delta. It also sounds like he was trying to help him gain HC coaching experience with putting him in that spot on the Soph team.
I think that it is only a demotion if the other coach feels so and when he is not "thinking the same thing"
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Post by 19delta on Jan 17, 2010 22:03:02 GMT -6
And I also understand that the guy might not have been being completely honest with me when he said he was OK with taking over the soph position...might have been telling me what he thought I wanted to hear.
That's OK...I understand that guys need to do what they think is best for them. Heck, I was in the same spot a few years back...I was the varsity O/C. Head coach brought in a couple of big guns and I was assigned to be the head freshman coach. I didn't like it but I told the head coach coach as much, thanked him for the opportunity, and moved on to the next job.
I ended up calling the guy the other day. Told him that I heard through the grapevine that he was applying. I wished him luck and told him to let me know if there was anything I could do to help him out. And if he doesn't get hired, I will welcome him back. Like I said, he's a good guy and a hard worker.
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smu92
Junior Member
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Post by smu92 on Jan 17, 2010 22:09:57 GMT -6
Delta, I think you should have a meeting with your staff and talk about being approachable. I worked for a guy for 5 years, and although he was a great guy and a pretty good boss, I never felt like I could talk to him. When I left to take a DC job, we talked a little bit, and he was shocked to find out I felt that way. He ended up having some staff issues because several assistants felt this way. He spent the next year or so cleaning up things that could have been avoided had his coaches felt like they could take things to him. Also, as someone else said, a lot of us young guys don't know the proper way to do things. A lot of us weren't given the opportunity to be "mentored" by someone, and we haven't seen the proper way to do things. Just some thoughts.
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Post by wolfden12 on Jan 18, 2010 16:14:02 GMT -6
I recently seperated from my head coach whom I have known for 20 years and have coached with for the last 5. I got offered a coaching opportunity at another school within our conference. I felt obligated to see him and the AD first and discuss the opportunity. I didn't want them to find out through the grapevine. They were understanding, but more importantly as a young coach they sat me down and discussed the important stuff that I may have overlooked. These included driving, money, family situation, what type of move is it in my coaching career, teaching job, etc. I decided to leave and take the job. The decision created an uncomfortable situation with some former players, the HC, and the AD whom has been great since I've been apart of the program. It has been a 1.5 months and what was hanging out, talking football, and office visits has turned into simple hellos in the halls. I think guys today fear confrontation from their superior and rather take the easy road. I am glad the course I took and at times miss the way things were, but understand there is a new group of coaches who want to hangout, talk football, and be close friends. It is never easy, but the way you handle things could come back to haunt you in the future based on how the situation was handled initially.
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1/11th
Sophomore Member
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Post by 1/11th on Jan 18, 2010 20:04:14 GMT -6
I am going through the same thing right now. I am the DC and thinking of trying the waters as a HC. Really enjoy the group Im with right now. It has only been one year, but I love going to football and working with these guys. My goal is to be a HC and I am applying at a school right now. Have not told my head coach and anticipate doing it this week. Its a hard decision.
It did sound like a demotion and maybe you should clear the air with him. I agree with Wolfden that a lot of coaches now a days take the high road and dodge confrontation. We all have to remember that confrontation is good. Hence when we were little kids some of our best friends were made after we fought them. Its not easy. The point Im trying to make is that it is up to you to be up front and honest. People will note your behavior and hopefully model after you...
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