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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 5, 2010 4:07:17 GMT -6
we talk about kids buying in, we talk about selling our program.
what does the actual conversation sound like when you are convincing the kids that they NEED to lift weights and maybe even more importantly, eat right, to be successful.
* Like most of you, we feel that we need more from the kids in terms of "buy in" to the lifting, running, eating right, part of things if we are going to get bigger, stronger, faster and prepare ourselves to compete with the bigger schools/better athletes.
we post or hand out nutritional plans, workout plans, have stuff posted, send home letters, I discuss it in meetings....yet kids skip meals constantly and fail to gain weight at all.
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Post by hlb2 on Jan 5, 2010 6:36:07 GMT -6
That's a tough one coach, as we seem to be in a similar situation. I like to get their perspective first, and I've done it more than just 1 way. I've talked to them, had assistants talk to them, and even had some kids that confide in me talk to the ones that don't seem to buy in. This at least lets you know where the kid stands, so you can work whatever angle necessary to "show him the light". I would say there are those that no matter what you do are just not going to buy in, and then I feel playing time becomes the biggest factor that has to weigh in. That's just my opinion, and I will sit on the side and read this one because we've struggled in this area getting kids to beleive in what we want to accomplish.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 5, 2010 7:55:38 GMT -6
try getting the kids to participate in strength meets. if you can get just a couple of kids strutting around the wt room without a shirt on, THAT is the motivation you need.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 5, 2010 8:01:04 GMT -6
This is where senior leadership becomes so important. Identify the ones who aren't doing right and send the seniors after them. Peer pressure.
It's a constant battle. In 2007 we had 47% total attendance in the off season and went 0-10. In 2008 we had 60% total attendance and went 3-7. In 2009 we had 74% attendance, went 7-5, and made it to the second round. I tell them everyday that to do better next year, we have to do better RIGHT NOW.
I really put the pressure on each kid in as many ways as I possibly can. "Where were you yesterday? Everyone is counting on you to be ready to go next year - if you don't prepare yourself, you will let your buddies down - you will fail. Don't let yourself be the weak link. If you are not willing to commit yourself to be the best that you can be, then maybe you should move on and do something else. I hear the golf team needs some help."
We are going to improve in every area every year. I will not allow anything else. I will pressure, pressure, pressure until they conform or quit.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Jan 5, 2010 8:16:45 GMT -6
One strategy I've taken with a kid that's a player but just doesn't seem to want to commit to the outside work is to finally tell him that I've bugged him enough, that I can't want it more than he does, that he's better than the effort he's giving but if he wants to be left alone, I'll leave him alone.
This approach is not even close to my main way of doing things (I'm a hallway recruiter and badgerer of the weight room) but every once in awhile it is just different enough to get a kid to buy in.
It's sort of like the kid in class that needs the attention and therefore does everything he can to do what you don't want him to do to get it. Sometimes, by removing your attention, it swings a kid back your way...obviously you can't run a program by ignoring your athletes but it is a different strategy to employ once in a great while.
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Post by michwags19 on Jan 5, 2010 8:30:56 GMT -6
Bo Schembechler once told a 'needy' player he wasn't going to talk to him anymore just to get the kid to put forth some effort. The kid just wanted to be everyone's friend so Bo went the other direction and things worked out.
Good story from a GREAT book - Bo's Lasting Lessons.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 5, 2010 8:31:26 GMT -6
Once kids buy in and can experience the results (first hand or even second hand) you've climbed the biggest mountain.
But that doesn't answer the orginal question. How to get there?
When I played in H.S., we lifted because our HC said we needed to. End of story. But that was a long time ago.
Nowadays there has to be more in it for the kid to get him to take part. We spend a great deal of energy recognizing our players for their off-season productivity. We highlight their efforts on our team's website, we have kids earn lifting club shirts, we pass out recognition shirts for off-season leadership and followership. Our offseason numbers went from over 60% of our players NOT particiating to less than 5% who chose to put their energies elsewhere. Even our IN SEASON athletes want a part of the action during Jan through May. Some even hold their in-season coaches "hostage" by letting them know that they probably won't turn out for wrestling or track because they want to lift. The other HC's have had to make some concessions for these kids - allowing them to lift 2x's weekly or letting them lift as the rest of the track kids are going through their warm ups.
Our summer lift and conditioning program went from 15-20 kids to having to have to double shift two groups of 35 to 45 kids each. What a great problem!
We just built the better mousetrap and it's worked for us. I stepped down after the 08 season and the new coach is taking a different approach. He's taking more of the, talk to kids individually to show them that they have to buy in. The recognition portion just isn't there anymore (this takes lots of effort). He's a good X and O guy but needs to understand that MOST kids aren't wired like he or I - but he's young and learning. They need to be enticed with some kind of short termed incentive.
Just my opinion but it really worked for us. Incidentally, we train on M/Tu/Th/F - Friday is always our recognition days and the kids know it. If you're not there, you will not be recognized.
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Post by brophy on Jan 5, 2010 9:18:14 GMT -6
ownership - "buying in" isn't compliance, its being assured that the investment will pay off. How do you solicit any type of investment? "Give me money!" .... "Give me money....or else!"gee, I don't know why people don't give me money.
Nowadays there has to be more in it for the kid to get him to take part. We spend a great deal of energy recognizing our players for their off-season productivity. We highlight their efforts on our team's website, we have kids earn lifting club shirts, we pass out recognition shirts for off-season leadership and followership. DING!
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 5, 2010 9:54:28 GMT -6
We'll take photos of players (before and after), give motivational t-shirts for certain gains, talk it up as if it means to the world, use the facts from past seasons to prove that the weight room is "the place to be", have charts on the wall highlighting a players gains "Stud", "Super Stud", etc. The room where our squat rack is located is where our first team all league players from the last 25 years are painted on the walls. Motivational statements are PAINTED on the walls.
I think it's pretty much ingrained that if you aren't are part of the weight room...you're going to get left behind. We'll still love you, but you aren't going to be close to the next guy.
Example - Junior player in 2008. 6'0" 195lbs. Lifted like the world was going to end before the 2009 season. Played this season at 6'2" 225lbs. Dropped his 40 3 tenths and was offered early by Colorado State.
That is what our guys have to do around here to compete with the other schools in our area. We don't...and we don't have a chance.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2010 10:07:01 GMT -6
There are a lot of ways to motivate kids (incentives, testing) that have been alluded to.
Ultimately, it must be the kids' idea to be there, whatever it takes. Coaches can only do so much; most of us are not in situations where we can coerce them in off-season by threatening to cut them.
I suspect the problem is greater in smaller schools (like tdm's) where kids know competition for positions and playing time is not great. Only if you get a good "football class" coming through that is highly motivated will the coach see full benefits of off-season efforts.
Tradition and community pressure no doubt plays a part in some programs as well.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Jan 5, 2010 11:30:45 GMT -6
As someone alluded to earlier, t-shirts are a great motivator...heck, I know kids that would chew glass for one. The nice thing about t's and hats is that they are also great advertisement for what you are trying to do. We bought t-shirts with our name, logo, and "fortified with iron" on them. If you do the t's, it's important to make sure that the weights are somewhere on there, otherwise it's just another program shirt.
I've also heard of, but never have done, "breakfast clubs" for athletes that are playing other sports outside of the fall.
Lastly, I took this idea from a post on here awhile back...we have a record board for 6 lifts that is further delineated by body weight. E.g. >149, 150-169, etc. This gives a 167 pounder a chance to get their name "published" just as easily as your Mac that's benching 305.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 5, 2010 11:33:54 GMT -6
we do tees, hats, sweatshirts and incentives such as captain status, playing time.....
I think we need more still ...more INTRINSIC too.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2010 11:48:31 GMT -6
Kids will do most anything for T-shirts or food.
The ultimate incentive (motivator) should be PT, or lack thereof.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2010 11:58:03 GMT -6
we do tees, hats, sweatshirts and incentives such as captain status, playing time..... I think we need more still ...more INTRINSIC too. tdm, one thing we do also is every week I give them a "Message of the Week" - a (hopefully) motivational, inspirational handout kind of like the material in Jim Tressel's "Winners Manual." For example, yesterday I gave 'em "What is a Workout?" by George Allen. Next week will be "The Committed Athlete"; week after poem "They Said it Couldn't be Done"; later, Lombardi's "What It Takes to be Number One"; "Seven Secrets of Highly Successful Athletes"; etc. - you get the idea. Anything I can get my hands on (am an old English teacher). Have had football kids who couldn't be at workout because they were in-season come and ask for copy of the "message." I think it's good for them to hear (read) "another voice" plus many of them keep the handouts and re-read them as year goes along. ' |
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Post by cnunley on Jan 5, 2010 12:00:03 GMT -6
I completely agree with what everyone as stated so far.
Our weight room attendance as been amazing this winter season because we changed EVERYTHING. I have posted on this before so I wont bore you with the details but we made it a competition, give wristbands, tshirts, honor them at basketball games, on the daily announcements. Anyway we can think of.
Had a kid come up to me a few days ago and tell me the following story.
"Coach, I saw the coolest thing in history class today. Trey asked Adam for a pencil in class and he said 'Sorry, I only give pencils to kids who lift"
This Trey kid is a football player who refuses to buy in to what we're doing by the way
Its finally becoming the "Cool" place to be at our school
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Post by coachks on Jan 5, 2010 12:42:25 GMT -6
What about the weight aspect.
We have far too many kids concerned with having abs rather than building for football. They come in, lift really hard and work their ass off....but wont eat enough. It's tough to yell at (and, has potential legal issues).
For example, we had a pair of offensive lineman who were right about 200 pound as sophmores. They get a little heavier their junior year, between 215 and 200. Similar body types (5'10ish, thick...not fat but definately lineman).
They both proceed to drop between 10-15 pounds heading into their senior year. Our center goes from 215 down to just barely over 200. A guard goes from around 205-210 and drops down into the 180s.
Both had good build, I'm sure the girls were fawning over them....but they would have been better players at 220-230.
How do we compete with THAT.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2010 12:52:13 GMT -6
What about the weight aspect. We have far too many kids concerned with having abs rather than building for football. They come in, lift really hard and work their {censored} off....but wont eat enough. It's tough to yell at (and, has potential legal issues). For example, we had a pair of offensive lineman who were right about 200 pound as sophmores. They get a little heavier their junior year, between 215 and 200. Similar body types (5'10ish, thick...not fat but definately lineman). They both proceed to drop between 10-15 pounds heading into their senior year. Our center goes from 215 down to just barely over 200. A guard goes from around 205-210 and drops down into the 180s. Both had good build, I'm sure the girls were fawning over them....but they would have been better players at 220-230. How do we compete with THAT. Contact Mike Leach. He's an avowed expert on "fat little girl friends" and I hear he has a lot of time on his hands now. |
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Post by hlb2 on Jan 5, 2010 12:52:32 GMT -6
I'm sure the girls were fawning over them.... How do we compete with THAT. You know that is the only opponent you can't beat...haven't you heard, "that sh!t's undefeated"!!!!!  |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 5, 2010 13:19:52 GMT -6
we do tees, hats, sweatshirts and incentives such as captain status, playing time..... I think we need more still ...more INTRINSIC too. tdm, one thing we do also is every week I give them a "Message of the Week" - a (hopefully) motivational, inspirational handout kind of like the material in Jim Tressel's "Winners Manual." For example, yesterday I gave 'em "What is a Workout?" by George Allen. Next week will be "The Committed Athlete"; week after poem "They Said it Couldn't be Done"; later, Lombardi's "What It Takes to be Number One"; "Seven Secrets of Highly Successful Athletes"; etc. - you get the idea. Anything I can get my hands on (am an old English teacher). Have had football kids who couldn't be at workout because they were in-season come and ask for copy of the "message." I think it's good for them to hear (read) "another voice" plus many of them keep the handouts and re-read them as year goes along. ' consider it an idea stolen , I will see if our principal will approve a short quote etc added to daily announcements. I think he will. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 5, 2010 13:22:36 GMT -6
What about the weight aspect. We have far too many kids concerned with having abs rather than building for football. They come in, lift really hard and work their {censored} off....but wont eat enough. It's tough to yell at (and, has potential legal issues). For example, we had a pair of offensive lineman who were right about 200 pound as sophmores. They get a little heavier their junior year, between 215 and 200. Similar body types (5'10ish, thick...not fat but definately lineman). They both proceed to drop between 10-15 pounds heading into their senior year. Our center goes from 215 down to just barely over 200. A guard goes from around 205-210 and drops down into the 180s. Both had good build, I'm sure the girls were fawning over them....but they would have been better players at 220-230. How do we compete with THAT. ha ha funny, I had a guard nicknamed "Power 90" because of that very thing. unfortunately some kids lose a bunch of weight for all of the wrong reasons too. stuff thats not so good for them. |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 5, 2010 14:55:22 GMT -6
TDmaker-
I have been on both ends of the spectrum- outstanding offseasons and poor offseasons...
Right now we're climbing out of a rut and this upcoming season will be critical to the success of our program. The kids are finally working hard and will need to see success this year or they will regress.
The scary thing is the one true motivator for hard work only comes after hard work- WINS.
I haven't done anything different than what has been posted above:
tees
pics on the website
posting maxes
distributing information regarding nutrition
creating a competitive environment- breaking the team into squads that compete against each other in the offseason
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Post by cnunley on Jan 5, 2010 20:39:27 GMT -6
What about the weight aspect. We have far too many kids concerned with having abs rather than building for football. They come in, lift really hard and work their {censored} off....but wont eat enough. It's tough to yell at (and, has potential legal issues). For example, we had a pair of offensive lineman who were right about 200 pound as sophmores. They get a little heavier their junior year, between 215 and 200. Similar body types (5'10ish, thick...not fat but definately lineman). They both proceed to drop between 10-15 pounds heading into their senior year. Our center goes from 215 down to just barely over 200. A guard goes from around 205-210 and drops down into the 180s. Both had good build, I'm sure the girls were fawning over them....but they would have been better players at 220-230. How do we compete with THAT. Had the same thing happen to one of my OL last season. It was his JR year. Had an amazing offseason. Was up to about 195. Not a monster but was going to be a big contributor. 2 weeks from 2-a-days he goes missing from the weight room and shows up on the first day of practice about 170-175. No joke. He had spent the last 2 weeks running 5+ miles every day because he felt like he was getting fat. He was still a decent player for us but KILLED his season by cutting weight. Same kid going into his SR year doesnt run to lose weight, but was very cautious of any type of weight gain. He cared more about the number than Muscle to Fat. Its a losing battle IMO |
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Post by silkyice on Jan 5, 2010 21:16:12 GMT -6
try getting the kids to participate in strength meets. if you can get just a couple of kids strutting around the wt room without a shirt on, THAT is the motivation you need. Just make sure that they aren't trying to cut weight to get into a lighter division. Two of my best lifters last year quit making big gains and started looking a little thinner (in a bad way). Talked with them about it, and it turns out they were trying to get into a lighter weight class! That completely defeats the purpose! |
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Post by hlb2 on Jan 6, 2010 6:31:29 GMT -6
I agree, our powerlifting and wrestling coaches don't always get this!
On motivation, I know a lot say tees and hats etc., but we have a very very slim budget, what are some "cheap" ways to motivate? I may be peeing in the wind hear, but anyone have low cost ideas?
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Post by Coach Bennett on Jan 6, 2010 6:53:59 GMT -6
It doesn't cost much to make construction paper boards like "The Big Dipper Club" (recognition for doing 'x' number of dips) and listing kids' names on it.
...................................................
Do all of you looking to "convince the kids" also lift IN season?
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Post by cnunley on Jan 6, 2010 7:16:05 GMT -6
It doesn't cost much to make construction paper boards like "The Big Dipper Club" (recognition for doing 'x' number of dips) and listing kids' names on it. ................................................... Do all of you looking to "convince the kids" also lift IN season? Yes we lift in season. We're such a small school we cant afford to NOT lift in season. We were in the weight room 2 days per week (Mon/Wed) this past season but will go to a 3 day format next season. (Mon/Wed/Sat) |
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Post by blb on Jan 6, 2010 8:01:58 GMT -6
THE COMMITTED ATHLETE 1. Has the courage to keep training rules 2. Is Goal-Oriented - both individual and team 3. Attends all practices, workouts, meetings 4. Is punctual all of the time 5. Maintains enthusiasm and intensity during practices 6. Congratulates and encourages teammates 7. Enjoys challenges and works hard to accomplish them 8. Is trust-worthy and cares about winning 9. Is coachable and cooperative 10. Is a responsible student in the classroom How Committed to HUSKIE FOOTBALL are you? HUSKIE FOOTBALL
WHERE ONLY YOUR BEST
IS GOOD ENOUGH! |
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Post by superpower on Jan 6, 2010 9:02:02 GMT -6
blb - The Committed Athlete is going up in our weightroom today! Thanks.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 6, 2010 9:13:23 GMT -6
One thing I forgot to mention on my last post. Besides all of the T-shirt recognitions and website recognition we also have two more incentives for our players and this contributes to our big numbers (when I was coaching) during the off-season and summer.
The day before the season begins we run a 5K. - Those who were 85% in attendance for the off-season are exempt from this. Those who don't show and still plan to turn out will run a 10K. Those who did achieve their 85% still must attend but will be placed at various locations throughout the route to "cheer" on their teammates (We put them there as a reminder to those who didn't get their 85%).
We also made our players sprint for their helmet decals. We'd do this by defensive positions. DBs 14 seconds , LBs & DEs 15, DL 16. Players ran 12 x 110 yard sprints. 45 second rest in between. They have to make all 12 at their time or better to earn their decals. If they are over on time they are then assigned a makeup extra conditioning session following the next practice. If they miss 4? They will do 4 make up sessions and this will happen over the next 4 days. If a player makes 90% of our off-season stuff - he is exempt.
Our before the season "TESTS" declined in participants and our off-season training sessions shot through the roof.
We don't talk negatively about those who have to do the tests. We support them positively but they must pass these standards before they are allowed on a game sideline in gear.
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