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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2009 8:50:18 GMT -6
Am taking over as head coach at smallest enrollment school I've ever been at (around 500 kids). The numbers are good for size school - had 39 on varsity last fall; JVs 18, frosh 17 (one frosh up on JVs, two sophomores on varsity).
Am used to having 2 1/2 hour practices Monday-Wednesday in-season (shorter on Thursday, day before game).
Looking for suggestions on whether to keep my preferred practice schedule or cut back to two hours a day, and have "days" devoted exclusively to offense or defense - and if so, which gets two days (Monday and Wednesday), which gets one?
School I left was 1700+ enrollment, had 140 kids in program.
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glcove
Freshmen Member
Posts: 62
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Post by glcove on Dec 20, 2009 8:58:57 GMT -6
Your practices might be longer than shorter.
Fewer players = more two way players, which makes it impossible tp practice D the same time as O. plus you probably have less coaches.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 20, 2009 9:02:09 GMT -6
Monday - O Tues. - D Wed - Split
Special teams and 20 min team period for D on O day and O on D day.
Not sure why you would have to change anything if you didn't want to, having smaller numbers in the program shouldn't change how you run your practices.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 20, 2009 10:00:11 GMT -6
Coach- with a small school roster you might find it more beneficial to practice offense, defense and specials every day simply because if a kid misses ONE PRACTICE he will be missing from all three units anyhow in most scenarios.
I have found it to be extremely challenging to add stuff because it seems like someone is always missing. If we only did offense on monday for example then wed have to wait until wed to get something in or to fix something that we would otherwise address on monday.
add to it that you are probably going to share your field and gym space with other teams (ie our ms team practices on the other end of our field and the soccer team might have the gym if its wet out).
Thats been my experience but then again we are only at 250 kids in our school so we are about half your size.
Also, I think 2.5 hours to 3 hours is a good idea since you will probably want to train your most versatile kids to play more than one position and youll need that extra time to do that.
In my third year I think I finally have the concept of "mr versatility" down. quickly find your smart kids and let them know up front that they are hybrids. Around here they get that bill billicek likes versatile smart guys and so do we.
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Post by buckeye7525 on Dec 20, 2009 10:04:51 GMT -6
TDmaker, how do you structure your practices? Could you give a breakdown of the periods you to? We have about 300 kids in our school and would like to figure out a way to practice more efficently while working both sides of the ball.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 20, 2009 10:16:39 GMT -6
This is the plan in place for this coming season
2:35-2:55- study hall/team meeting time in cafeteria (feed kids) 3:00-3:30 linemen lift /backs work schemes and skills in gym 3:30- 4:00 backs lift /linemen work schemes and skills in gym 4:00-4:10 all dress 4:15-4:30 form and flex/qbs and centers work with HC on snap and footwork- this is a great time for *remedial* work for anyone who needs it. 4:30-4:40 shed and tackle stations 4:40-4:50 blocking drills for all (velcro block, double team, stalk) 4:50- punt/field goal 5:00- 5:30 Indy defense (group defense when short coaches) 5:30-5:45 team defense 5:45-6:15, 6:30 if necessary, team offense vs cones, bags and sheilds or scouts depending on numbers.
as the season progresses and the kids have it down we reduce practice time. We might only be at it until 5, 530 later in the season.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2009 10:30:36 GMT -6
My concerns are:
1) With fewer players, kids are going all the time, even in Team. Being heavily involved in practice is a good thing, but don't want them sore and tired on game night.
2) If I cut back time, will I still be able to adequately practice situations? Develop back-ups (give 2s time during Team periods)? Be multiple on defense?
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Post by gdf on Dec 20, 2009 12:17:44 GMT -6
Coach we're at a school with a similar numbers situation. Here's what we do:
Monday: Film/Scouting Report (20-30min) Special Teams (30) Offense (25) Defense (25)
Tuesday: Offense: 60 Defense: 45 Special Teams: 10
Wednesday Defense: 60 Offense: 45 Special Teams: 10
Thursday: Special Teams 15 Offense 15-20 Defense 15-20
We try to keep our practices to about 2 hours. As the DC, I really like having D each day. That way if something doesn't work, we can find out & immediately correct it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2009 12:53:52 GMT -6
Coach- with a small school roster you might find it more beneficial to practice offense, defense and specials every day simply because if a kid misses ONE PRACTICE he will be missing from all three units anyhow in most scenarios. I have to echo touchdownmaker's point here. Having designated days can come back to bite you if something happens on one of those days (kid missing, inclement weather, etc.). I also love how he packages his periods into skills that ALL players should do. Very useful for teams with small #'s. Make sure EVERYONE can block, EVERYONE can shed & tackle, and now you are teaching football. As Jgordon quotes me...you "play defense, not defenses" and this extrapolates out to you play FOOTBALL not various offensive and defensive schemes.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 20, 2009 13:00:05 GMT -6
I coach at a school with about 450 students. Tdmaker, we have the same issues you speak of regarding attendance. We have several two-way players and when, for many reasons, we don't have somebody at practice (sick, appointments, drivers ed, etc.) it throws a wrench in the entire weekly plan. We are struggling to form a consistent weekly practice template and individual practice plans that address and reinforce all of the fundamentals of each phase especially when kids miss practice. I don't feel comfortable about waiting until Wednesday to rep someone else at an offensive position when someone is gone on Monday. Or rep another defensive player on Wednesday when someone missed Tuesday. There's too much riding on that. I think this is a situation where you can hope for the best and plan for the worst. But when a kid misses practice you want to know that his back-up(s) will be adequately prepared. So I think them getting reps on Monday and not getting more specific work in until Wednesday is putting them at a disadvantage. Or if you do get that starter back, you want to know that he's been repped on both sides of the ball multiple times throughout the week to be prepared for the game. Tdmaker, you realize that and have planned for that. I believe we will take this same approach when developing our weekly practice template this off-season for the 2010 season. It's a huge challenge to plan for this and not to mention we, like alot of other schools, have only a few coaches (5 for the high school).
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Post by khalfie on Dec 20, 2009 13:00:19 GMT -6
As Jgordon quotes me...you "play defense, not defenses" and this extrapolates out to you play FOOTBALL not various offensive and defensive schemes. Huh? What!? And kids missing practice, is a bad deal, any way you cut it. However, Offensive days or defensive days, allow for you to get into the intricacies of your game planning... splitting that time up into two days... on top of the fact that you're making offensive and defensive adjustments... may take away from the stickiness factor. Monday we do offense... tuesday defense... wednesday we remind them of the adjustments we've made on both days, thursday, another reminder... I can't see myself doing it any other way. Especially because a kid might miss a day. Shame on that kid!
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Post by lukethadrifter on Dec 20, 2009 13:31:39 GMT -6
A lot of your organization depends on how many coaches you have. The more the better. When I coached at some larger classification schools in the past, we had 8 or 9 coaches on the varsity staff. Everyone just coached one side of the ball. Now that I am the head coach at a smaller classification school, every coach (including myself) coaches a position on both sides of the ball. There are so many different practice organization schedules that you can do. I like TDmakers example of making sure that everyone goes through some tackling and blocking stations early in practice. Very similar to what we do. Are the kids getting enough quality reps in individual, group, and team that you want them to get? In my opinion, getting a lot of quality reps is the quickest way to get better. Luke
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 20, 2009 13:36:29 GMT -6
Assuming a Friday game...
Mon- Film & Walk through Tues- Defense (Defensive position groups, O and D team) Wed- Offense (pos. groups... O and D team again) Thurs.- Pre-game
We do 2 specials on Tues & Wed., and all on pre-game.
Largely, it is the same practice schedule we had when I coached a 5A team with 60+ on the varsity and 180+ in the program.
Here we have had 13-22 (total) on our roster... but we haven't changed much (other than coaches have to play scout team here)
As far as time goes- we are right at 2 hours per day. It might be longer during the pre-season through week 3 of games. By the end of the regular season and playoffs- we might be out in 1:30.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 20, 2009 14:42:09 GMT -6
Call me crazy but we dont practice kickoff or kick return at all during the week. We essentially wait until Thursday and again on Friday to "see who we have" - its been such a tremendous waste of time to practice those things only to find out that lil johny has "previous engagements" or "dinner plans that he cant break because we made a promise" - I swear to you, I have notes with some unreal comments, practice stuff only to have to throw someone else in and prepare them on game night. so for us, kickoff and kick return are put on the back burner, shame but thats how it is. First time in twenty years that we didnt return one kickoff for a score. We came close several times but no dice.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2009 16:06:38 GMT -6
As Jgordon quotes me...you "play defense, not defenses" and this extrapolates out to you play FOOTBALL not various offensive and defensive schemes. Huh? What!? And kids missing practice, is a bad deal, any way you cut it. However, Offensive days or defensive days, allow for you to get into the intricacies of your game planning... splitting that time up into two days... on top of the fact that you're making offensive and defensive adjustments... may take away from the stickiness factor. Actually, the small dose approach and splitting over two days would probably INCREASE the stickiness factor. I believe it depends on what you define as an "offensive" or "defensive" day. If you aren't working get off, shed, and tackle every day..you are probably missing out. If you aren't working pad level and blocking daily, you probably are missing out. Do you need to rep 11 v 11 team on both sides of the ball every day...nah..but I believe you BETTER be teaching and repping the fundamental football skills the kids will need every day. That appears to be the planning equivalent of "YOU GOTTA BLOCK SOMEBODY!!!!" without looking at better ways to get the kid to block. I am surprised that so many use Monday's as film and walkthrough... I have always been associated with football as a 6 day a week sport as a player and 6-7 as a coach.
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Post by khalfie on Dec 20, 2009 16:17:40 GMT -6
Huh? What!? And kids missing practice, is a bad deal, any way you cut it. However, Offensive days or defensive days, allow for you to get into the intricacies of your game planning... splitting that time up into two days... on top of the fact that you're making offensive and defensive adjustments... may take away from the stickiness factor. Actually, the small dose approach and splitting over two days would probably INCREASE the stickiness factor [quote I can't see myself doing it any other way. Especially because a kid might miss a day. Shame on that kid! That appears to be the planning equivalent of "YOU GOTTA BLOCK SOMEBODY!!!!" [/quote] Really? Maybe I should get a copy of all my kids calendars, and plan practices around that? Kid misses a day... um... not playing! Sort of reinforces that whole, practice is important philosophy. But you go ahead and keep calling your kids to see if they're going to make it to practice today, and use the appropriate practice plan based on who's attedning that day! And my confusion... wasn't based on the practice plan... but your criptic quotes... that true to form... make absolutely no sense! As Jgordon quotes me...you "play defense, not defenses" and this extrapolates out to you play FOOTBALL not various offensive and defensive schemes. How about explaining that Obi Wanna be deep!
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2009 16:38:59 GMT -6
Actually, the small dose approach and splitting over two days would probably INCREASE the stickiness factor Really? Maybe I should get a copy of all my kids calendars, and plan practices around that? Kid misses a day... um... not playing! Sort of reinforces that whole, practice is important philosophy. But you go ahead and keep calling your kids to see if they're going to make it to practice today, and use the appropriate practice plan based on who's attedning that day! And my confusion... wasn't based on the practice plan... but your criptic quotes... that true to form... make absolutely no sense! As Jgordon quotes me...you "play defense, not defenses" and this extrapolates out to you play FOOTBALL not various offensive and defensive schemes. How about explaining that Obi Wanna be deep! Khalfie..it is not deep or complicated. It simply means that at all levels of football, but even more at the small school level (which is the basis of this thread) you will be more successful if you worry about teaching the fundamentals than "intricacies of gameplanning". Block better, get off/shed/tackle better, flow&fit better, and you will be successful.
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Post by khalfie on Dec 20, 2009 16:43:36 GMT -6
How about explaining that Obi Wanna be deep! Khalfie..it is not deep or complicated. It simply means that at all levels of football, but even more at the small school level (which is the basis of this thread) you will be more successful if you worry about teaching the fundamentals than "intricacies of gameplanning". Block better, get off/shed/tackle better, flow&fit better, and you will be successful. Ohhh! See, why couldn't you have just said that? I agree completely!
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 20, 2009 20:09:18 GMT -6
I am surprised that so many use Monday's as film and walkthrough... I have always been associated with football as a 6 day a week sport as a player and 6-7 as a coach.
It is 7 as a coach... but 5 as a player. I guess we do film/walk through/running on Monday (and we go at 5:30 AM), rather than Sat. for several reasons: 1. Probably the biggest is we have JV games Mon. night. With a roster in the low 20s, we can't do much else for practice. All our coaches coach either JV or JH (JH practice is during athletic period at the end of the day, JV practices with the varsity... basically the varsity reserves). 2. I think our kids are fresher with an extra day off. 3. It takes until the end of a weekend for us to have a scouting report/game plan together. We could watch our game on Sat. as a team (most come get a copy from me on Sat. anyway), but I think we are better served by doing all team film time on Monday 4. We have kids coming in from as much as 35 miles away... one way. Having kids so far scattered about around the county- it makes more sense for us to do it this way.
That's why we do it... can't speak for others though.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2009 21:28:46 GMT -6
Thank you for the rationale Senator.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 21, 2009 3:58:49 GMT -6
Senators correct, two years ago, we had jv games. There were 7 kids that didnt get on the JV bus. Eventually numbers were too low for jv to continue, it was great to have those Mondays back though.
I hope we have jv this year , if we do, we want to make sure those kids are sharp so they get an extra day to work with each other and the jv coaches on Saturday ams right after film/lift.
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Post by blb on Dec 21, 2009 7:41:34 GMT -6
So the consensus seems to be:
- No need to shorten practices to accommodate fewer players
- Practice some offense and defense each day rather than having "days" devoted exclusively to one or other
BTW - our school has seven paid coaching positions (three Varsity, two each JVs-frosh) plus they had three volunteers last season.
I'd appreciate any other suggestions-comments guys may have.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 21, 2009 8:15:45 GMT -6
I would suggest you lift at least twice a week during the season. Many players are three sport athletes and also have jobs. That means they do not lift much - so the lifting during the season does help in the final 3-4 weeks especially.
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Post by blb on Dec 21, 2009 8:20:48 GMT -6
I would suggest you lift at least twice a week during the season. Many players are three sport athletes and also have jobs. That means they do not lift much - so the lifting during the season does help in the final 3-4 weeks especially. Good suggestion, tdm. Have been doing that at my previous school - Varsity kids not in Strength Training and Conditioning class during school day after practices Mondays and Wednesdays (JVs and frosh other days). School I'm going to has no STC classes so we pretty much HAVE to lift after practice!
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Post by calicoachh on Dec 21, 2009 9:15:53 GMT -6
i coach at a school with similar numbers. our longest practice this year was 2 hours and 45 minutes, normally we are right at 2 and a half. i don't think that the size of the school affects practice planning until you get to two platooning, which we don't. Coach want you know and adjust off of that baseline.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2009 9:24:19 GMT -6
So the consensus seems to be: - No need to shorten practices to accommodate fewer players - Practice some offense and defense each day rather than having "days" devoted exclusively to one or other BTW - our school has seven paid coaching positions (three Varsity, two each JVs-frosh) plus they had three volunteers last season. I'd appreciate any other suggestions-comments guys may have. So if you teach each kid one offensive and one defensive position, that means you have FOURTEEN COACHES on your staff for 74 kids. Crazy opportunities there for excellent individual work.
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Post by coachbiskits on Dec 21, 2009 12:04:57 GMT -6
TDMaker, We are in a similar #s situation. Do you run into any issues with your AD or parents having a lifting/meeting time on Saturday? I think around here they might have a kitten if I asked kids to come in on a non-school day. Heaven forbid!
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Post by superpower on Dec 21, 2009 12:25:40 GMT -6
I am at a school with approximately 240 students in 9-12. We get around 35-45 boys out for football, and I have 4 assistant coaches. Our practices generally run about 2-2.5 hours long. On Mondays we have JV games. The varsity kids do film study of the opponent for that week and then do a walk-through and conditioning. Tuesday and Wednesday we do special teams, offense, defense, and conditioning. Thursday is our pre-game practice, which normally runs about an hour and a half. On Saturday morning we bring in any player who got in the game on Friday night for film study.
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Post by superpower on Dec 21, 2009 12:26:46 GMT -6
I forgot to mention that all of our players are in lifting classes during the day, so we don't have to spend practice time on lifting. I would not take a head coaching job at a school that does not have lifting classes.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 21, 2009 12:47:00 GMT -6
I forgot to mention that all of our players are in lifting classes during the day, so we don't have to spend practice time on lifting. I would not take a head coaching job at a school that does not have lifting classes.
Ditto... and ditto.
Do what you can to get lifting class incorporated... if not done already. If you can't during the day- a zero hour (before school... for credit), is a good way to get the ball rolling.
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