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Post by cnunley on Dec 9, 2009 8:18:56 GMT -6
From other post I've read of yours this new possibility seems like a dream job compared to what you're use to.
Theres nothing like working with kids that want to be there and try hard even if they dont win.
I would rather coach a bunch of kids who LOVE football and WANT IT and go 0-10 than kids who dont care.....
I was on the "Dont care" side of things this season and went 1-9...made it a very long and hard season
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Post by realdawg on Dec 9, 2009 8:21:54 GMT -6
This is a decision that you have to make for yourself. I am not a head coach, but me and a few of my buddies have talked about this at length. They both say they need to win, but I think personally I would be ok with it-if I knew that I was getting every ounce possible from my kids and my staff was doing everything possible to put them in positions to win. In your situation-from what I have read on here-it would greatly improve your personal life and situation....So I say go for it.
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Post by cnunley on Dec 9, 2009 8:22:36 GMT -6
Not meaning to double post but the 1-9 record was the last thing that made the season hard.
kids skipping practice ALL the time. Not having enough kids to really and truely enforce an attendance policy.
kids goofing off so much in practice that you had to yell and scream constantly just to stay on task and be somewhat productive.
Kids that truely WANT IT and GET IT are where its at....I could care less about the record if you love the kids and they are learning life lessons in the process.....I think if thats what is going on the wins will come on their own
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 9, 2009 8:41:56 GMT -6
Air- winning is what it is, its great. but coaching, being "coach" to a good group of kids is a true gift. I hate to lose, I hate it, BUT if my kids are coachable, work hard to try and progress, lift and run and be good , come to practice, follow team and school rules, play to their best, buy into the program, be part of the team and have fun despite the score than thats success on so many levels. We had a game at the end of our season where we were competitive for the first quarter. we drove the length of the field against a superior team, that was success and brought happiness to my kids.
we scored 22 points, all in the second half, allowed 50 and lost but my kids said it was the "most fun" game of the year for them. (which I know isnt true, the 70-40 win was much more fun for everyone) I think it was fun for them because some of the whiney cancer type kids werent around to destroy "fun" and distract them from playing the game.
in any case, "career killer" jobs , I think thats a myth. I know a few guys that have lousy career records but they keep landing jobs and they arent nearly as passionate about football and coaching as you are. Be professional and coach for the right reasons and your going to be fine.
apply for it, go for it with "impending greatness" written all over your face.
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Post by hamerhead on Dec 9, 2009 8:50:24 GMT -6
" It took me a long time to realize that, uh, there ain't much difference between winnin' and losin', except for how the outside world treats you."
That's probably the reason I'll never be an exceptional coach. But Lombardi can roll over in his grave ten times, frankly, I don't care. Football at the high school level is about developing young men. It's about teaching them a hundred different things. The process of TRYING to win, of devoting all you are and all you can be to winning, is how those things are taught. "Winning" is the tool, it's not the product. Quality young men in the product.
Obviously if a team perpetually goes 0-10, it's difficult to get the boys to buy into a system, or come out for football at all. But if you can win enough to keep them interested, to keep them TRYING TO WIN, that's really all that matters.
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sbv
Sophomore Member
Posts: 171
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Post by sbv on Dec 9, 2009 8:52:05 GMT -6
I don't think you should take it if you don't feel like you can get the program a chance to win games. I agree that success is measured by more than wins as a coach and to those kids but there is only so long that the community, administration and school board are going to put up with a 3-7 record before you are gone. I don't know many head coaches who have a 30-70 record at a school and continue to be their head coach.
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Post by phantom on Dec 9, 2009 8:54:21 GMT -6
Well.. my good friend who I coached for 2 years ago is in a situation where he might be losing his job.. If so.. I will ponder applying for it.. .. Why is he losing the job? |
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Post by slydaddy on Dec 9, 2009 8:57:17 GMT -6
I would say being happy in the coaching job you are doing is more important than wins. Five years ago I was on a staff and we put together three seasons where we went a combined 36 - 8 with some deep runs into the playoffs. The problem was we let any jerk on the team, certain seniors were totally uncoachable, and we practiced 5 hours everyday with Saturday and Sunday being marathon film sessions for about 8 hours each. I was totally miserable. So, I moved to junior high - got it made, win 75% of ballgames, call all the shots, kids are great....the only problem for me is the junior high game is not enough of a coaching challenge to me. I love to game plan and coach at the high school level, therefore, I think I may take a d-coordinator's spot with a good buddy of mine at a high school nearby. This school doesn't have a lot of athletes or a winning history, but I know I will work with coachable kids, a great staff, and will have fun doing what I love. All that to say, winning is not the the one thing that makes me happiest while coaching. I prefer to get the best out of the kids I have, teach the game and how to play it the right way, teach kids discipline and life lessons, and have fun while doing it.
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Post by amikell on Dec 9, 2009 9:10:57 GMT -6
If I were you, I would apply for that job right now. I would also make it clear that you are going to be committed to the school and the community. It might not be a bad idea to look toward moving there relatively soon. I live in the community where I coach, and I love it. In the past 4 years, I have only had 1 negative experience w/ a parent outside of school.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
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Post by kahok on Dec 9, 2009 9:17:38 GMT -6
Can you have successful years at the school? If you and the kids are all working hard and you have years where you make the playoffs or compete for conference that would probably take the sting off the years you don't do so well.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 9, 2009 9:19:22 GMT -6
There was an article, sports illustrated maybe, about a coach who took a job and said hed only take it if winning didnt matter. I think the guy turned football into a circus for the school , lots of gadgets and silly stuff to entertain the kids. If I recall, they punted backwards and things like that. anyone know the coach I am thinking of?
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Post by spartancoach on Dec 9, 2009 9:20:21 GMT -6
I couldn't do it. Other than protecting the program by doing things the "right way," winning is very high on my list of priorities.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
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Post by kahok on Dec 9, 2009 9:22:36 GMT -6
I'm not sure what article your referring to TD, but what about taking a page out of the school in Arkansas playbook? The coach that never punts and always onside kicks. Might be a strategy to try at a school like this one.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 9, 2009 9:30:48 GMT -6
Lets back up for a moment
someone said "i dont think you should take it if you dont think you can turn it around" and yknow what, I agree with that. confidence has to be there.
now, ...lets talk about this other thing...120 kids in the whole school? or 120 boys in the school? either way, what size are the other schools they play? we face teams that have twice our numbers and for sure they have some faster kids at key spots but I dont think its a golden rule thats never going to change because in the past this school had some studs of their own (ie a 225 lb te who also played safety and was the basketball teams all time leading scorer or something). sometimes there are dry spells and a coach only keeps the coaching seat warm for the next guy, so be it, sure beats not coaching. still you got to BELIEVE that you can turn it around.
I thought my team should have been a playoff team last year given a bit more luck and guts and grit and better coaching too. injury free is the most important two words for us to give us a chance and Id imagine if you only have 120 in your whole school youd be in the same boat.
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Post by softcorner on Dec 9, 2009 9:32:29 GMT -6
What makes you think that the school would let you keep your job if your not winning?
Not trying to be negative, just asking. I don't think that I would want to coach at a school that would just accept losing.
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Post by brophy on Dec 9, 2009 9:39:35 GMT -6
If they cook you gizzards, I'd say this was a no-brainer
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2009 9:41:12 GMT -6
First of all, I could not coach a football team in the town I didn't live in. I just couldn't do that.
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Post by hamerhead on Dec 9, 2009 10:10:37 GMT -6
What makes you think that the school would let you keep your job if your not winning? Not trying to be negative, just asking. I don't think that I would want to coach at a school that would just accept losing. I think A LOT of small schools are this way. I speak from experience when I say this, that at least in the mid-west and with regard to small, rural schools, winning is really a minor part of the equation. I won't say that it truely doesn't matter...but I've been a part of several programs where I don't believe it did. Consider what the original poster said with regard to applicants the last time this job was available. Small schools in rural mid-west communities have a VERY hard time finding quality people to work in their district. If a coach proves to have values consistent with the school board, if the kids enjoy and grow as a result of their football experience, and if the coach proves valuable in other arenas (like the classroom) then he could easily amass a 30-70 record over a ten year span. Is that neccessarilly a great thing? I don't know. But it ain't the end of the world. Greater injustices exist in the world of education than such a coach keeping his job. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 9, 2009 10:20:06 GMT -6
The wise admins, wise school boards and communities with a clue know when theres talent, when theres not.
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bama
Freshmen Member
Posts: 54
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Post by bama on Dec 9, 2009 10:44:23 GMT -6
I just recently gave up a job very similar to the one that your thinking about applying for. I still teach there, but due to some strange circumstance's I volunteer at another school in the area. I was able to coach some of the most wonderful young men that a coach could ever wish for. They worked their guts out and played their guts out, wouldn't take anything for those seasons. Unfortunately we moved up in class and could not compete, period. Coaching those young men was fantastic, but the frustration of all the work and preparation and not having a chance to not only not win, but barely being able to compete can drain you so fast. If I remeber correctly though , aren't you the coach who has had such a hard time with your administration? If so this opportunity made not be a bad one. If you want to message me feel free to. I could tell you more about what you could face at this new school.  |
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2009 10:45:49 GMT -6
Wise education administrator or school board member is very very rare!
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Post by phantom on Dec 9, 2009 10:49:38 GMT -6
What makes you think that the school would let you keep your job if your not winning? Not trying to be negative, just asking. I don't think that I would want to coach at a school that would just accept losing. That's what I was getting at with my question about why the old coach is losing his job. |
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Post by coachorr on Dec 9, 2009 10:49:58 GMT -6
27 miles is too far.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2009 10:56:11 GMT -6
I hate losing, absolutely hate it; there's no way around it... But as someone pointed out, it's the reasons that lead to a loss that are the most frustrating and draining. It's tough to win when you have the kind of administrations that you've coached under, when you've got kids that are cancers, when you've got a community that doesn't support you or what you do...
Again, in agreement with those who have already posted, I would rather go into a program and a community that values hard work, that want to come to practice, that love the game of football and lose. Plus, those are honestly the programs that you'll have the better chance of turning around. At the very least, you'll have a chance (AND TIME) to develop the program into .500+ team.
There are programs around this state that will never truly turn it around and it's because of issues that are far beyond the control of the HC. Most of them involve admins and communities that value effort over ability; it doesn't matter if a kid is a lazy punk, if he's talented you have to play him.
I have a friend who had honestly turned the program around; they made the playoffs for the first time in decades and did so several times. BUT, he dealt with a few kids on the team that were the best athletes in the school, but they were lazy and he had a hard time getting them to practice. SO, he benched them. The community and the school went apesh-t over the whole thing and demanded that they play the kids. All in the name of 'winning'. So, he quit and now the school is back in the toilet.
So, winning is important to me, as long as it's not at the expense of the program or the kids. If winning means that you have to consistently deal with lazy prima donna kids and a poor work ethic within the community, then I'd go somewhere else and lose.
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Post by airraider on Dec 9, 2009 10:58:59 GMT -6
I don't think you should take it if you don't feel like you can get the program a chance to win games. I agree that success is measured by more than wins as a coach and to those kids but there is only so long that the community, administration and school board are going to put up with a 3-7 record before you are gone. I don't know many head coaches who have a 30-70 record at a school and continue to be their head coach. The school was on a 2 year losing streak before my buddy got there.. we won our last game that year to avoid the 30 game streak.. he won 2 games last year.. and 1 this year.. the most the guy before him won was 3 games.. back in the late 90's someone won 5 and made the playoffs.. that guy was a God around there.. There are NOOOO expectations.. |
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Post by airraider on Dec 9, 2009 11:01:29 GMT -6
Well.. my good friend who I coached for 2 years ago is in a situation where he might be losing his job.. If so.. I will ponder applying for it.. .. Why is he losing the job? Well.. long story short.. His son and a couple of other kids burnt down an abandoned building right behind the weightroom.. It was on school property.. but was not being used.. falling down.. looked really bad.. and was dangerous.. So.. the moron kids decided to take it upon themselves to torch it.. Well.. the coach has been trying to get the school board to get rid of it since he has been there.. So of course.. they think he put them up to it.. Didnt help that he told the kids to keep quite.. Super asked him to resign.. he refused.. and is on unpaid leave.. pending board meeting.. So pretty much.. he's gone.. |
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Post by airraider on Dec 9, 2009 11:03:13 GMT -6
What makes you think that the school would let you keep your job if your not winning? Not trying to be negative, just asking. I don't think that I would want to coach at a school that would just accept losing. They have lost basketball games by 80 points.. Its been years since they have won a girls basketball game.. They have only won maybe 10 games in the last 5 years in football.. They havent ran any of those coaches off.. |
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Post by airraider on Dec 9, 2009 11:04:21 GMT -6
Lets back up for a moment someone said "i dont think you should take it if you dont think you can turn it around" and yknow what, I agree with that. confidence has to be there. now, ...lets talk about this other thing...120 kids in the whole school? or 120 boys in the school? either way, what size are the other schools they play? we face teams that have twice our numbers and for sure they have some faster kids at key spots but I dont think its a golden rule thats never going to change because in the past this school had some studs of their own (ie a 225 lb te who also played safety and was the basketball teams all time leading scorer or something). sometimes there are dry spells and a coach only keeps the coaching seat warm for the next guy, so be it, sure beats not coaching. still you got to BELIEVE that you can turn it around. I thought my team should have been a playoff team last year given a bit more luck and guts and grit and better coaching too. injury free is the most important two words for us to give us a chance and Id imagine if you only have 120 in your whole school youd be in the same boat. 120 in whole school.. would be a Class C or B school.. but since they play football.. they must play up to 1A.. I think the biggest schools in their district has around 220 kids. |
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Post by mattharris75 on Dec 9, 2009 11:34:27 GMT -6
I agree with a lot of what is being said here, the fact is there are more important things than winning.
We preach 'excellence' to our kids. Excellence doesn't mean winning every game, it just means doing everything you are capable of doing to help the team win. That means weight room, film, intensity at practice, etc, etc. So many lessons are learned from doing those little things in order to give yourself a chance to succeed.
That said, I think you need to consider your own expectations and view of this job. Just because they haven't been winners doesn't mean you should go into it feeling like they'll never be winners. Whether you go 10-0 or 0-10, I just don't believe that's a healthy view to have for yourself or for the program.
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Post by indyball on Dec 9, 2009 11:50:55 GMT -6
Huh, I found myself asking that very question this past offseason. How important is winning to me? Perhaps I led a charmed life, but I was a part of only one losing team in my younger days and I played football, basketball, baseball and even golf in high school. As a coach, during the first 9 years of my career, I never had a losing season in any sport I coached and I actually thought I may have had something to do with it! Over the last two years, our football team had consecutive 1-9 seasons. I can't describe how horribly long those seasons were...kids I came to love and trust walking off the team, no buy in, horrible discipline and hour after hour of my head banging on the wall. This year, we were in the same boat, had the talent, had decent buy in over the summer, but no one really thought we would win many games. I had to take a second look at why I did all of this. Did I need the rush that victories provide (and dang, what a freaking rush it is)? Did I need to win to feel vindicated or adequate or successful? 10 years ago, when I was still a headstrong 20 something believing that winning was everything I wouldn't have had to ponder the question. But I hear those 20 somethings today and, with a drop dead serious face, they admit that they would cheat or steal to win. At one time, I probably had close to the same attitude. Does that mean winning doesn't matter enough to me nowadays? I imagine there are different answers from those on the board. I will say this, however. I did give it one more year this year and after getting blown out our first three games of the year, we ended up going 7-4 with our school's first playoff win in 25 years. While it was still a tasking year and I had a lot of difficult situations to deal with, I wouldn't have wanted to miss it! I guess I am still trying to answer that question to this day...
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