rock85
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125
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Post by rock85 on Nov 24, 2009 19:56:31 GMT -6
A few coaches were sitting around the locker room this afternoon after practice and were contemplating and reviewing our season. We had high hopes for a decent year -- had a bunch of solid skill guys coming back, but our offensive line never really jelled...seemed every game (or at times, every play) we had a different facet of the line break down.....we really struggled to score points the 2nd half of the season. As the O-Line coach, I am frustrated, angry, despondent -- you name it. We tried EVERYTHING to get the kids up to speed...just never happened.
We talked at length about getting our "edge" back -- for years we were an "I" team, very content to run power, blast, belly and toss.....a "run it down your throat" philosophy. The past 2 years, we went with more of a spread look, based on the personnel we had. We all talked about how we've seemed to have gotten "soft"....which begs the question -- it is the kids or the system?
For years, we used to send time every week running the "Oklahoma" drill......after an injury or two, our head coach stopped it......we've love to bring it back (only with his blessing) as we felt it developed a certain level of toughness, and got the kids really into it.....
I guess I'm asking -- any of you going through similar thoughts? Do any of you still run Oklahoma drills? If so, how often? Anything else you do to keep that "edge"?
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Post by phantom on Nov 24, 2009 20:03:19 GMT -6
A few coaches were sitting around the locker room this afternoon after practice and were contemplating and reviewing our season. We had high hopes for a decent year -- had a bunch of solid skill guys coming back, but our offensive line never really jelled...seemed every game (or at times, every play) we had a different facet of the line break down.....we really struggled to score points the 2nd half of the season. As the O-Line coach, I am frustrated, angry, despondent -- you name it. We tried EVERYTHING to get the kids up to speed...just never happened. We talked at length about getting our "edge" back -- for years we were an "I" team, very content to run power, blast, belly and toss.....a "run it down your throat" philosophy. The past 2 years, we went with more of a spread look, based on the personnel we had. We all talked about how we've seemed to have gotten "soft"....which begs the question -- it is the kids or the system? For years, we used to send time every week running the "Oklahoma" drill......after an injury or two, our head coach stopped it......we've love to bring it back (only with his blessing) as we felt it developed a certain level of toughness, and got the kids really into it..... I guess I'm asking -- any of you going through similar thoughts? Do any of you still run Oklahoma drills? If so, how often? Anything else you do to keep that "edge"? We haven't done Oklahoma in years. We used to do it on the first day of pads to test their toughness. Came to find out that there were never any surprises. We decided that it was a waste of time so we just work on our fundamentals. Nobody has ever called us soft. |
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Post by airtrafficcontrol on Nov 24, 2009 20:04:57 GMT -6
Still run Oklahoma every week...works a treat.little tip..during scrimmage put 12 or 13 men on D quietly.After a while of this picking up normal blitz and pass rush should be a dandy...I've done it a few times and you'll be amazed at the results once you go back to 11 on D..hope this helps!
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j4f
Freshmen Member
Posts: 51
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Post by j4f on Nov 24, 2009 20:08:01 GMT -6
We do Oklahoma drills but an extended version. 1st level it is OL vs DL/LB - 2nd level it is FB vs LB / WR vs CB. I like it because everyone knows he has to block to get a successfull play.
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Post by los on Nov 24, 2009 22:00:29 GMT -6
You're probably upset still rock and the okie drills thing is a knee jerk reaction....if your linemen were like ours, they did more hitting at practice than anyone else on the team anyway, so just "hitting more", in hopes of making them "tougher" and their "execution better", would be kinda silly and not accomplish much.......there's probably a lot more to it than just "lack of toughness" and careful film study and analysis, of the kids returning next season, would be where I'd start......identify specific problems and find solutions that will actually help... "too unathletic" to do the job asked of them = work on strength,conditioning,agility......don't know "how to block" = work on fundamentals.....don't know "who to block" = maybe cut back or simplify the number of blocking schemes, till they all get it.....like you said, they're a unit and have to play as such....if a different guy $crews up, because of (one of the above) on every play, the entire offense may flounder.  |
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Post by jackedup on Nov 24, 2009 22:13:49 GMT -6
soft kids hitting soft kids doesn't make tough kids. it makes sore soft kids.
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Post by los on Nov 24, 2009 22:24:06 GMT -6
Sometimes a group thats confused or lacks confidence can be mistaken for being "soft"....confidence in your ability and training = always makes you look "tougher", lol
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Nov 24, 2009 23:32:30 GMT -6
I hope this doesn't bring on the infamous-passing=soft, running=tough argument, it isn't intended to. Even in the NFL the linemen talk about how they like run blocking more than pass blocking because it allows them to get after the defensive linemen. I don't know if you pass more now that you are running the ball. You only said that you "went out of spread more based on personnel." You didn't mention if you spread people out to run because of the defenses you faced, or that you spread people out to pass because you had good receivers and QB combination. There is a huge difference there. I know guys who spread you out so they can run over you, these people are just plain mean I tell ya'  But most spread you out to take advantage of a certain personnel or coaching philosophy. I do know coaches that run the spread because it's trendy right now and they want to be cool. They don't win much. But your complaint seems to be more centered on not 'jelling." Like most problems, it's hard to see it because you are too close to it. (the famous-can't see the forest for the trees) Coach, it isn't easy to change from one offensive idea to another. I know that some people think it easy, but it's not. Y'all were power, you are now spread, that's a hard transition. Some teams just cannot make the transition, no matter how good their receivers are. While some guys run power out of spread, most don't. These things take years. Spread offense isn't as easy that just putting the QB back 5 yards and here we go. Your team and kids may not EVER run the spread well. Your OC/HC may not EVER be able to put this all together. You also didn't mention your wins or losses. You might have won most of your games, doesn't sound like it. Coach, face it, you might not be a Spread guy. I'm not, nor will I ever be. Even though my QB's have been #1 or #2 in our county for 6 straight years, I'm not a spread guy, nor will I ever be. However, that doesn't mean I bury my head in the sand and say they don't have good ideas. Please don't consider this an insult, I don't mean it to be, I know don't you and you don't know me, but I mean no harm. It might be possible that your entire staff may not be on the same page with the OC/HC with the offensive ideas. This stuff is harder than it looks. Since your team has been power-now your are Spread, your staff may not be properly prepared. Again, you might THINK you are, but you might not be. The Offensive Line is the toughest of all positions, the systems and nuances of everything are not easy. Sometimes it takes years and years for things to be learned effectively. As far as the Okie goes, which one are are talking about, I've seen many different drills called Oklahoma? OJW |
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Post by jackedup on Nov 25, 2009 6:11:59 GMT -6
I think outlawjoseywales makes some valid points. We're a spread team but our number 1 play is counter trey followed by 2 back power. The system should not prevent the team from being "tough".
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Post by jpdaley25 on Nov 25, 2009 8:04:39 GMT -6
We do a butt load of tough drills, but it is all within the context of what we teach and do, and we back off when the season starts. We preach to our kids that whether we win or lose the game, we are going to win the toughness battle: We are going to out hit our opponents. We are going to work longer, work smarter, be more intense, be in better shape, and be more dedicated than our opponents. We are going to win the preparation battle. We make it a personal pride thing, and our kids have bought in.
We have 24 kids 9-12.
None of them are soft.
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Post by FlexboneOne on Nov 25, 2009 8:28:27 GMT -6
Coach;
You mentioned that you were trying to figure out whether it was the kids or the system. I'll play devil's advocate and force you to ask, "is it my coaching"?
The reason I say this: you state that you were an I team, a pound it out type of scheme. Now you are spread based. That is a whole different mindset up front. Instead of concentrating on firing off the ball with maximum force, the first thing a spread line does is zone step or whatever. That is completely different than I (for the most part...I know there is some crossover).
I would ask you to ask yourself if YOU have adapted to the scheme first, then ask your original question.
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rock85
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125
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Post by rock85 on Nov 26, 2009 5:35:58 GMT -6
Coaches --
You've all made some great points -- los: you're right -- I think a LOT of it has to do with confusion and confidence....OJW: this is year #2 of the system we have in place -- maybe not long enough to base anything on...and, no offense taken at all....you hit the nail on the head!! Flexbone1: I've been asking myself that same question for 3 weeks -- and I'm guessing I have not adapted yet......
Thanks for all of your input -- have a great Thanksgiving!
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Nov 26, 2009 10:16:55 GMT -6
Happy Thanksgiving,
we all have much to be thankful for.
I'm glad you weren't offended, it takes a lot of nerve to look at ourselves without offense.
"If a man can overcome himself, he can fulfill the destiny God has designed for his life."
Hope there are better days ahead for us all.
OJW
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dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by dbeck84 on Nov 26, 2009 10:27:34 GMT -6
Before I came to the school I'm at now they were a wishbone shoulder-block team. After I got here we went into a zone hand-blocking scheme. I had a lot of trouble getting the kids to realize that just because they were blocking with their hands didn't mean they could be "soft". This season our new coach brought in his wing-t and halfway through the year we went back to shoulder blocking, so I guess I never really got through to them to be tough while hand blocking.
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Post by chadp56 on Nov 26, 2009 10:47:21 GMT -6
so I guess I never really got through to them to be tough while hand blocking. We went to the hand blocking and now are looking at going back to shoulder blocking to come off faster and lower. We are having a hard time with those two things. We don't zone block, so why not go back to old school stuff? |
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Post by rcole on Nov 26, 2009 10:56:32 GMT -6
Los is dead on.
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help
Freshmen Member
Posts: 25
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Post by help on Nov 26, 2009 11:22:02 GMT -6
soft kids hitting soft kids doesn't make tough kids. it makes sore soft kids. That is a great......so true!!!!!!!! |
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Post by fbdoc on Nov 26, 2009 12:12:31 GMT -6
Okie drills by themselves will not make you tougher - Okie drills are, In my opinion, more technique than toughness. The "toughness" comes from sprints, up-downs, bear crawls, sled work, and the like. You take kids who are being toughened and you teach them techniques before tossing them into 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 drills and then complain that a kid isn't "tough" because he's getting blown up. Make them tougher while you teach them technique - that is coaching!  |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 26, 2009 16:17:37 GMT -6
I won't comment on the change in offensive philosophy, as I don't know the reasoning behind it. But, in terms of any offensive blocking scheme; the hawgs are going to prefer run blocking over pass blocking. It's more fun to go after the DL all game, versus letting them come to you in a pass blocking set. But, that's my only two cents beyond that.
I have really found, from the defensive stand point, that our kids need to bang pads daily in controlled drills; drills with an emphasis on shedding, tackling, re-routing, etc..They aren't designed to make the kids 'tougher', but just to give them the tools and the confidence to play faster and more aggressively. Well... HOPEFULLY.. lol
During our skelly, inside run, and team sessions, I prefer the defenders to pop and wrap the ball carrier, this forces them to break down and use the technique that's been given to them. Now, sometimes this is a little detrimental as they have to slow down to do so; we don't take the runner to the ground. But, there have been scrimmage sessions between our the JVs and the Sophs where we start with wrap-pop, but we'll let it turn into a nasty session.
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