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Post by morris on Nov 11, 2009 10:02:00 GMT -6
As players go through their careers a bunch of stuff changes. In many youth programs they have MMP rules in which every player on the team must play a certain amount of snaps. At some point in a player's career there is no such thing is minimum plays or playing time. Which brings me to my questions.
When does minimum playing time end? i.e every gets to play?
Do you play all your Freshman in all Freshman games?
Do you play all your JV in JV games?
Do you play all your varsity in all varsity games?
If you coach middle school or have controll over your MS program do they play everyone?
I stay away from the whole talks about how society is "everyone gets a trophy" and sense of entitlement. At what point does playing time have to be earned, period?
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Post by davecisar on Nov 11, 2009 10:17:51 GMT -6
In youth ball, everyone sees the field for us, even when I coached in leagues with no MMP rule, we set one of our own.
BUT the kids who are the best, work the hardest, effort, listen the best, are always at practice play MUCH more than those who don't, after all we arent communists.
I like MMP rules it, it FORCES the coach to coach everyone up, no matter what. It also levels the field for me, because no matter if there is a MMP rule or not, all my kids will see the field
IMHO it is a cop out NOT to play everyone as least X amount of snaps in MS-YOuth ball (which is the same here). For me it used to be 8 snaps in a no MMP rule league, now it is 16.
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Post by mitch on Nov 11, 2009 10:48:27 GMT -6
We start in the 7th grade (1st school ball year) with playing the best we can get out there. We do sub in as much as possible, and even start a few kids (usually D-linemen) that may not be our best, but not at the expense of losing the game.
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Post by tribepride on Nov 11, 2009 10:53:16 GMT -6
Elementary FB (5-6 grades) - everyone plays almost equal time
7th-8th grades - everyone plays but not equal amounts of time
Junior Varsity - everyone plays but some will play very little (5-10 snaps)
Varsity - best play
I believe everyone needs a chance at the lower levels. We always have a kid that will play for us his senior year that was terrible in the previous. Just never know when a kid will "catch on" or mature physically.
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Post by Wingtman on Nov 11, 2009 11:02:14 GMT -6
Elementary FB (5-6 grades) - everyone plays almost equal time 7th-8th grades - everyone plays but not equal amounts of time Junior Varsity - everyone plays but some will play very little (5-10 snaps) Varsity - best play I believe everyone needs a chance at the lower levels. We always have a kid that will play for us his senior year that was terrible in the previous. Just never know when a kid will "catch on" or mature physically. This Let me use my basketball career as an example. I started YMCA ball in 3rd grade... I was bad. Big Time. However I still got to play 2 full quarters a game. This happened all the way through 5th grade. 6th grade I was on a travel team with my friends. I played a little more but not much. 7th grade out of a 10 game schedule, I only played in 3 games. 8th grade I became the 6th man and saw alot of run. Freshman basketball I was a starter, but in JV I barley saw the floor. My junior year when I got to varsity I NEVER saw the floor. EVER. Ok maybe 5 games all year (24-2 team that went to state final four), and then didnt play senior year. My point is, I kind of followed the path above and have no regrets about it. I dont feel cheated. My parents always encouraged me to get better, but I along with them were realistic about what I could do as a basketball player. (SIDEBAR: My parents NEVER complained about my playing time to me or a coach,EVER. They were realistic about what I could and could not do.) The younger the level, the more equal the PT. By 7th-8th grade, the kids have started to seperate out and the better should get most of the game time. A kid that age doesnt understand that anymore..I grew up in an era when indeed it was understood and no one I ever played with complained about it. Now it seems everyone wants to be a starter, or has to be the "man." After practice one day I took an informal survey, having everyone close their eyes, I asked this... Would you rather go undefeated and be a role player..."play a little, but contribute" or we lose every game but your a starter"....all but 5 kids picked the last one. Suprise, my 5 best players/athletes picked the first one. Weird. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 11, 2009 11:20:36 GMT -6
I have no freshman team, I have no jv team
i am not sure how "even" ms playing time is really....but I can tell you this, if a kid is working hard for me during the week , is coachable, knows his assignment, works hard in the off season (ie earns points) then he plays. hes going to get at very least, special teams and first sub consideration.
the reality is this...we dont have enough bodies to sit kids and expect them to keep coming out.
we play everyone in any game that is clearly decided. If its a close game, we play our best kids trying to win the game. We always play our top pride point earners at least a little.
its taken two years but I think some of the "me first" kids are getting the picture and If I am still the coach next year they know they have to do it my way. that is, come to practice, be coachable, do their job and follow the rules. I think too that kids realize that the points do matter, if the talent is close, the kid with the points gets the nod.
Ultimately what we all want is the best athletes working harder to become better. Seems like the best kids know they are the best and dont bother to try and improve. big fish small pond syndrome - the lesser athletes know the only way they get to play is to earn it with putting in time in the offseason, which makes them better and earns coach's respect...but sometimes, not better enough.
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Post by blueswarm on Nov 13, 2009 0:36:54 GMT -6
I want to win as bad as the next guy...but there is more and more that says the more kids you can get playing time, the better. Read the book "Season of Life" in which a former NFL player coaches in Maryland and plays everyone. It is a top-notch program, and his feeling is that everyone that puts in the time, deserves some playing time. Also, I just finished reading the article in American Football Monthly about the Northwest Missouri Bearcats and their practice efficiency and one thing the OC outlines there is the reps for the #2 and #3 teams. He plays a lot of players- even at a top-notch college program and his premise is that you will always end up with players who get hurt, are not in condition, etc. and you need to have a backup who can do the job. He even talks about the breakdown of the plays in the game for the non-starters.
With that said, I think that playing time is earned, not given. If I have a player who doesn't give his best effort, even at the freshmen level, he won't play at all or very little. I run a program (HC) and I have told the JV and Frosh that they will start 22 different players, but that they have te 40/40 rule. Once the offense crosses their own 40 or the opposing team crosses the 40, the best players play. You will be suprised how much better those second-string kids get and you will be happy with the number of players who you will retain and have a chance to help the varsity program later- even though they are not seen as "studs" at a younger age.
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Post by k on Nov 13, 2009 4:42:29 GMT -6
Varsity plays our best until the game is in hand.
I try to play everyone in JV but there have been games when our last string kids don't get in. Usually our last string kids get a drive or two.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 13, 2009 6:29:58 GMT -6
Middle School- Everyone plays, and they play a lot, assuming they are at practice and working hard
Freshman, Sophomore, JV- Everyone gets playing time, I personally give each kid a series or two, assuming that they're working hard and are being coachable.
Varsity- the very best 11 play, period.
I do have an issue with the youth level around here, because they have a playoff and championship game. They have to win a certain number of games to make it to the playoffs. The coaches are required, by the league, to get the kids a minimal amount of playing time, but there's a real emphasis on winning. To me, this sets up problems, because I know they have kids showing up, working hard and getting the bare minimum of playing time, because they aren't one of the 'best 11'. I think that this sets a bad tone for the program.
In the youth league that I used to coach in, they ditched the playoff system years ago and they raised the minimum amount of playing time the kids received. And, they also had a set offense and defense that you had to run for a certain number of weeks. Schemes that were simple and really emphasized basic fundamentals. The offense was a straight power T; it was great because it was set up to get 4 ball carriers on any given snap.
I really like all of this; it was great, it got all of the kids involved in the game and the emphasis was on development. And, if you were a good, smart coach; you had your cake and got to eat it to; you played everyone alot and won a lot of games.
IMO, everything underneath varsity needs to be developmental. I have coached in programs where there was constant emphasis on winning at the lower levels and, each year, you lost kids. Worse than that, you lost enthusiasm in the program and in the game. And, I have said it again, and again; HOW CAN YOU ASK YOUR KIDS TO GIVE 100% DURING THE SEASON AND IN THE OFF-SEASON, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY THEM?
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Post by bigdog2003 on Nov 13, 2009 7:02:05 GMT -6
I coach middle school, and we get them all in. The last 2 seasons we have went undefeated, so it was easy. The eight grade tries to play everyone, but in one game 2 years ago, it came down to the last play of the game, some guys didn't get in much.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Nov 13, 2009 7:06:51 GMT -6
Middle School- Everyone plays, and they play a lot, assuming they are at practice and working hard Freshman, Sophomore, JV- Everyone gets playing time, I personally give each kid a series or two, assuming that they're working hard and are being coachable. Varsity- the very best 11 play, period... [glow=red,2,300] IMO, everything underneath varsity needs to be developmental[/glow]. I have coached in programs where there was constant emphasis on winning at the lower levels and, each year, you lost kids. Worse than that, you lost enthusiasm in the program and in the game. And, I have said it again, and again; HOW CAN YOU ASK YOUR KIDS TO GIVE 100% DURING THE SEASON AND IN THE OFF-SEASON, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY THEM? Bingo |
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 13, 2009 7:26:38 GMT -6
Middle School- Everyone plays, and they play a lot, assuming they are at practice and working hard Freshman, Sophomore, JV- Everyone gets playing time, I personally give each kid a series or two, assuming that they're working hard and are being coachable. Varsity- the very best 11 play, period... [glow=red,2,300] IMO, everything underneath varsity needs to be developmental[/glow]. I have coached in programs where there was constant emphasis on winning at the lower levels and, each year, you lost kids. Worse than that, you lost enthusiasm in the program and in the game. And, I have said it again, and again; HOW CAN YOU ASK YOUR KIDS TO GIVE 100% DURING THE SEASON AND IN THE OFF-SEASON, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY THEM? Bingo WAY too cut and dry. You're going to giving playing time to the kids who are there just to get a letter or wear the jersey, or goof off, over a kid who pounds the weight room and is serious? Or over the kid who is good, but doesn't quite love the sport yet...suddenly he's getting "benched" for some goof off. Then your numbers go down. Yeah, a lesser athlete who works his butt off but isn't a starter, should get PT in JV/Freshmen...but not as cut and dry as this sounds. Regarding everyone plays. Here is what I do. I find the 11 best tacklers. They play defense. Period. I put an offense together to win. Best players I can...with solid subs. Then I put together a 2nd team offense. Anyone who doesn't fit in the above two categories is on that 2nd team offense. That team gets two series's a game. One first down, and they're getting 9+ snaps. Works well for me. Also, one of those "2nd team" offensive players worked his butt off and made it to a quality sub (HB who could block) |
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Post by blb on Nov 13, 2009 7:50:26 GMT -6
My philosophy has been everyone plays at Middle School level, although have not always had influence over that program. Would leave it up to MS coach as to how much.
At high school, we two-platoon as much as possible. Like to have offensive linemen play only one way.
We tell parents this is a meritocracy - best players play. We play the game deciders until the game is decided (running clock or one team up three scores in the 4th Quarter). We play everyone as much as possible without hurting our chances for winning.
This philosophy works for us. This past fall, my fifth as head coach at that school, we had 147 kids come out grades 9-12 (enrollment 1723) - most in our league and in school's history.
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trojan
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Post by trojan on Nov 13, 2009 9:45:56 GMT -6
Just to say, "everyone plays" at any level makes me uncomfortable.
At the 7th grade level, we spend a lot of time in indies, where EVERY kid gets coached as an OL, as a RB, or as a WR. (QBs move between WRs and RBs.) This is where our players improve. If he cannot block during drills, he will not magically be able to block during a game.
When players show up, work hard, learn their assignments, but still "stink" as athletes, they've earned playing time on my team. In my experience, these kids haven't hurt us. I deal with plenty of kids who don't make your jaw drop when they play, but we want to get them ready for their future. We focus on IMPROVEMENT, whether they are studs or otherwise.
When you have kids who don't put forth the effort, then playing time becomes minimal. We get some kids every year who "hide" during practice. They don't put out in drills, don't know their assignments, and don't appear to want to be involved when we go team. You have to actually earn SOMETHING, don't you?
If you play "everyone" looking for that diamond in the rough that will develop into a fine varsity player, are you giving anything up? Does it send a message to other players that not putting out the effort is okay, or will the high effort kids still do the hard work? Clearly, my thoughts are about those who aren't trying rather than about those who aren't great athletes.
Also, if the goal is to play "everyone" at the expense of winning (which nobody really said that was the case), then what is the result? Do losing youth/MS/frosh/JV teams lead to winning varsity programs?
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Post by olinecoach61 on Nov 13, 2009 11:14:28 GMT -6
In our situation, on the MS level they run two teams so everyone plays. On our JV everyone plays but the best play more, on the varsity only the best at each position play.
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Post by coachguy83 on Nov 13, 2009 17:24:17 GMT -6
For me this question is hypothetical since I'm a ms coach in a mmp league. In my opinion everyone should get playing time at every level if they put in the work. I think mmp rules are a pain in the a$$, not because I don't want to give kids time, but because it handcuffs me as a coach. If a kid doesn't get it done in practice or is acting like a punk, I can sit him in the first quarter but he has to get his plays in the second.
I think you play everyone close to even at the freshman level, how are they going to get better. I think everyone sees the field at the JV level at least some, how else are they going to get better. I think you get as many guys time as possible at the varsity level to reward them for the time they put in.
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Post by phantom on Nov 13, 2009 17:43:12 GMT -6
I think you get as many guys time as possible at the varsity level to reward them for the time they put in. Can't do it. Nonstarters will get a chance to play on STs but they have to be able to perform when given the chance in practice. |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 13, 2009 18:14:44 GMT -6
WAY too cut and dry. You're going to giving playing time to the kids who are there just to get a letter or wear the jersey, or goof off, over a kid who pounds the weight room and is serious? Or over the kid who is good, but doesn't quite love the sport yet...suddenly he's getting "benched" for some goof off. Then your numbers go down. Yeah, a lesser athlete who works his butt off but isn't a starter, should get PT in JV/Freshmen...but not as cut and dry as this sounds. Regarding everyone plays. Here is what I do. I find the 11 best tacklers. They play defense. Period. I put an offense together to win. Best players I can...with solid subs. Then I put together a 2nd team offense. Anyone who doesn't fit in the above two categories is on that 2nd team offense. That team gets two series's a game. One first down, and they're getting 9+ snaps. Works well for me. Also, one of those "2nd team" offensive players worked his butt off and made it to a quality sub (HB who could block) The major determining factor is work ethic; those that work hard play more than those that don't. That is really what it comes down to; an emphasis on effort over ability. We don't sit there and tally the reps; it's not that concrete. It works well for us because it pushes those kids with athletic ability to work harder; if they don't, they don't play much. |
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