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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 8, 2009 8:39:46 GMT -6
I am just posting this because coaches are always asking this question.
Last year (2008) I inherited a team that was awful (Two years in a row they were 2-8 and just BAD!!). Last year we went 1-9 but played 15 9th and 10th grade players. We had a TREMENDOUS off-season (Lifting, 7 on 7, team camps...) and we went 7-3 this year with a bye this week for the playoffs.
My point is that it can happen. I would say this was quick (The 9th grade team I inherited was 9-1 when they played 9th grade ball). They all started for me last year and now they are two year starters as juniors...
I will say this as well - We did this with NO D-IA or I-AA scholarship players currently on our roster (We have 2 seniors who are D-III type of guys) and are current junior class has NO offers and I do not expect many of them go above D-II at best.
Hard work, vision, discipline and a STRONG STAFF are all important factors to this turnaround.
This is also the second program me and my staff have done something like this at in the past 5 five years.
For you young coaches who are struggling - STAY THE COURSE!! It will turnaround for you.
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Post by coachtut on Nov 8, 2009 11:10:30 GMT -6
Excellent post! Congrats coach!
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 8, 2009 12:19:46 GMT -6
bigm--great job and congratulations on the success. However, I would say that this doesn't sound like a turnaround as much as the cyclical nature of high school football.
Also, unless those underclassmen clearly beat out the upperclassman, I disagree with playing underclassmen "for the future" when you take over a program. Now, if they outwork and outplay older guys...no problems.
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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 8, 2009 20:28:45 GMT -6
Oh believe me it was a turnaround...
The guy before me left it in shambles... Over budget, no weight room expectations, practice done by 4:30... Just terrible culture. He was old and was ready to retire.
We played the best players who commited to us...Most of the 23 seniors quit by August because of our off-season expectations. We ended with only 7 seniors.
There was nothing cyclical about this. It was bad and it would have been ugly if he would have stayed.
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Post by coach31 on Nov 9, 2009 13:10:27 GMT -6
Great job coach.
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coachg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 119
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Post by coachg on Nov 18, 2009 13:36:41 GMT -6
We went 1-9 last year and Im struggling with it. It has really drained me this year. Is there light at the end of the tunnell? I hope so
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Post by phantom on Nov 18, 2009 18:42:50 GMT -6
Oh believe me it was a turnaround... The guy before me left it in shambles... Over budget, no weight room expectations, practice done by 4:30... Just terrible culture. He was old and was ready to retire. We played the best players who commited to us...Most of the 23 seniors quit by August because of our off-season expectations. We ended with only 7 seniors. There was nothing cyclical about this. It was bad and it would have been ugly if he would have stayed. I can vouch for Coach. That place used to be a mess. |
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7523
Freshmen Member
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Post by 7523 on Nov 18, 2009 22:01:03 GMT -6
Great job Coach!
How long, and what did you do to get players and coaches to buy in?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 19, 2009 0:39:03 GMT -6
23 seniors...how many juniors bought into the program?
I think thats a big part of the SPEED at which you can turn a program around. if you end up with nothing but sophs and frosh buying in, its likely that its going to take longer obviously.
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Post by shortpunter on Nov 19, 2009 4:49:59 GMT -6
Great Job coach
we did a similar thing where I am now. they were 9-61 coming into this year over the last 7 years inclucing the 5-5 we had last year. This year 10-0 and a playoff birth. And you are right on with the summer workouts weights and extras that make the difference. Keep up the good work
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Post by tango on Nov 19, 2009 11:56:15 GMT -6
3-7 last year, 9-1 this year. More of a cycle here though.
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2009 12:01:34 GMT -6
We never went 1-9 - our state only allows nine regular-season games.
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Post by tim914790 on Nov 19, 2009 16:46:32 GMT -6
Coach do you have a plan that you follow now that you have done it at 2 schools? Care to share from start to finsih what was done? I have had one HC job and gave it up for awful admin support I was young and they thougth they could manipulate things. I assume if I get another shot it will be at a program needing a turnaround. Any insight would be great.
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Post by jackedup on Nov 19, 2009 19:21:39 GMT -6
tim that's a great question. I, myself, will be interviewing for positions in the coming months and a few of them are turnaround jobs.
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Post by tim914790 on Nov 19, 2009 21:23:22 GMT -6
Coach I guess what I am asking for is do you have a template for this if you were interviewing for a job blidly tomoorow, what would you say your ogiing to do if you only knew the program had been horrible? I know this may not be too realistic but a lot of jobs around here that open are because of lack of support from admin so what would you say if you knew going in you werent gonna get support if push came to shove? I wanna hear somethign other than dont take the job.
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Post by bigm0073 on Dec 12, 2009 20:39:46 GMT -6
Well to answer your question it all starts with the administration...
Some things that poor programs lack
Lack of vision
Lack os consistent action (Weight room/camps/7on7..
Overall coaching and commitment is usually lacking...
Money (depends..)
Resources (depends)
Parental support (my prior school)
The factors go on and on..
Now me - I can of prescribe to the Bill Parcells way of doing things at first - This is my ship and I am going to run it... You (the administration hired me to clean up this mess) - let me clean it up..
the school I am at now had 5 coaches from 2004-2007 (I was hired # 5...). Now parental involvement was too much, weak head coaches, assistants who were weak or wanted the head job themsevles... just a mess...
So when I come in the admin staff know what I am going to do.. I WILL MAKE WAVES... I will piss off kids and parents. The lazy and not commited onces especially. They will not like me and they will wine and complain...
Any kid on the "fence" I will push off. We will keep kids who are good students, quality character kids and commited... Talent, well I can not control that part - Maybe in college you can but I can not.
I am a control freak (to a degree) and I will make sure if I control it (the kids in question) they will do it our way.
So when you go 1-9 and parents piss and moan about too much off-season stuff, playing young kids, making kids workout, making kids come in the summer, making kids accountable in and out of season (and these people will piss and moan about you).. You have to have an admin staff that understands what you are doing and THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT YOU!! If they cave in to winey pissing and moaning parents - no way you can change it.
In my interviews I am BRUTALLY honest and very specific. When I walk out we are all on the same page... Lets face it -
95% of the jobs open out there are because for some reason the prior coach left a mess and it is your job to clean it up (not ALL but most..). So they have to let you do it.
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Post by jtejada5 on Dec 12, 2009 20:55:16 GMT -6
Thats really great stuff coach.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 13, 2009 5:51:06 GMT -6
Well to answer your question it all starts with the administration... Some things that poor programs lack Lack of vision Lack os consistent action (Weight room/camps/7on7.. Overall coaching and commitment is usually lacking... Money (depends..) Resources (depends) Parental support (my prior school) The factors go on and on.. Now me - I can of prescribe to the Bill Parcells way of doing things at first - This is my ship and I am going to run it... You (the administration hired me to clean up this mess) - let me clean it up.. the school I am at now had 5 coaches from 2004-2007 (I was hired # 5...). Now parental involvement was too much, weak head coaches, assistants who were weak or wanted the head job themsevles... just a mess... So when I come in the admin staff know what I am going to do.. I WILL MAKE WAVES... I will {censored} off kids and parents. The lazy and not commited onces especially. They will not like me and they will wine and complain... Any kid on the "fence" I will push off. We will keep kids who are good students, quality character kids and commited... Talent, well I can not control that part - Maybe in college you can but I can not. I am a control freak (to a degree) and I will make sure if I control it (the kids in question) they will do it our way. So when you go 1-9 and parents {censored} and moan about too much off-season stuff, playing young kids, making kids workout, making kids come in the summer, making kids accountable in and out of season (and these people will {censored} and moan about you).. You have to have an admin staff that understands what you are doing and THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT YOU!! If they cave in to winey pissing and moaning parents - no way you can change it. In my interviews I am BRUTALLY honest and very specific. When I walk out we are all on the same page... Lets face it - 95% of the jobs open out there are because for some reason the prior coach left a mess and it is your job to clean it up (not ALL but most..). So they have to let you do it. perfect! |
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 13, 2009 9:55:58 GMT -6
Coach...Why would you push a kid off the fence??
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Post by bigm0073 on Dec 13, 2009 10:29:17 GMT -6
In my opinion (this is just me) the fence sitters are the worst. They just hem and haw... They are there and not there... I just do not have time for that. Again this is me - does not mean it works for everyone.
We look for players who love football and love being around it. If I have to convince a kid to lift or workout... This kid will usually kill you down the road.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 13, 2009 10:33:53 GMT -6
Thats definitely an area that each coach has to examine for himself. we have to sell sell sell to the fence sitters otherwise we will have 12 kids.
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Post by blb on Dec 13, 2009 10:44:11 GMT -6
I don't think you have to "push kids off the fence." They'll just get left behind. If they're not willing to do what's necessary to be successful they will be a drain on morale, hurt camaraderie.
Once took over a school that had won one game previous two years. Fortunately adminstration was supportive and had kids that were hungry to win (as well as somewhat talented). We won our first six, went 7-2 and 8-1 with that group.
You have to be positive but demanding, have a plan, and eluciditate it constantly to all concerned. That includes goals and objectives and what kids will get out of participation (after all, they'll want to know what's in it for them, not just what they're going to have to do).
We'll see if we can do it again - am taking over a program that was 1-8 at varsity last fall, has won six in last three years, not beaten archrival since '89 or won a championship since '75. Seven of our opponents have won state title, been in finals or within a game of in last decade, while our school is 0-2 in playoffs. Second-smallest enrollment in our division of conference.
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Post by champ93 on Dec 13, 2009 10:47:26 GMT -6
In my opinion (this is just me) the fence sitters are the worst. They just hem and haw... They are there and not there... I just do not have time for that. Again this is me - does not mean it works for everyone. We look for players who love football and love being around it. If I have to convince a kid to lift or workout... This kid will usually kill you down the road. Agree 100%. The fence sitters have no commitment one way or another. I don't worry about them much, I focus my energy on the ones that are there. PC administrators may want you to help every kid in the school to make their job easier. I am more than happy to oblige them if the kid makes a commitment to the program. The kid can be hesitant at first, but he must immerse himself in it quickly because too many other kids are working too hard. If you start catering to the fence sitters, you will lose credibility with the committed. |
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Post by lukethadrifter on Dec 13, 2009 11:00:56 GMT -6
bigm0073, Great Post! A similar thing here as the new head coach this year. Moved here from a successful program, and took over a 1-9 team from the year before. This football program had not been in the playoffs in 6 years. We made the area round of the playoffs. Was it easy? NO! But it was definitely worth it. What was lacking when I got here?
1) discipline
2) commitment & being held accountable
3) belief
4) common goals
5) a good off-season program
6) work ethic
7) a positive atmosphere
8) excitement
9) a uniform program from the junior high to the high school
10) organization
11) a lack of fundamentals
**bigm0073, again, great job man! Luke
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Post by bigm0073 on Dec 13, 2009 12:02:31 GMT -6
Yeah,
We are on the same page. It does take work and some coaches just do not want to do it. Others do not have the organization and drive.
Your plan looks great. Good luck to you and your program.
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Post by lukethadrifter on Dec 13, 2009 14:07:29 GMT -6
Good luck to you as well coach! Luke
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 13, 2009 18:14:21 GMT -6
Well., I have never been a HC so maybe I have a different perspective....I do not have the power to toss a kid off the team so I have always felt that if a kid is on the team..It is my responsibilty to teach the Leaders on the team to become better vocal leaders ...from the program kids..gett hem to become leaders in the future....from the kids on the fence..get them to become program kids and maybe most importantly..get the kids that are against you at least on the fence....I don't imagine that I would change if I got a HC gig....just seems against my nature to get rid of a kid unles he was tearing down the team....which is not my definition of a fence sitter....is it frustrating...yes..is it worth it...well sometimes yes and sometimes no....there is a cliche that states...the tastiest fruit is on the end on the branch..which is why we have to stretch for it....
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Post by bigm0073 on Dec 13, 2009 20:24:33 GMT -6
I guess coach it is my personality. I am very literal / Black and White.. Sometimes this is to a fault... But I am a big Italian / Irishman from Philly... I am 36 years old and I guess I will not change.
What I mean is this -
I wear on kids - Here are fence sitters -
a. Academics - Kids who have under a 2.4 have study hall. If they do not come I will run them and really get on them. I just ride them. Academics in my program are important and I will not jeopardize it. This past semester we had 25 players on our 48 man roster get a 3.5 or higher. In public school that is impressive. Now if kids do not go to study hall or hide - they get pushed off the fence... (Kids that work hard and buy into what we do are fine...).
b. Behavior - I send out emails every month or two updated our winter and spring roster. Kids are expected to sit in the front of the class and not be disruptive. If they can not they will run. If they continue to be disruptive they will be suspended... If this continues THEY WILL BE GONE!! Plain and simple. I am very "in your face" about behavior expectations that most kids do not last... This is another way they get pushed off the fence..
c. Weightroom/Off-Season - Our players are working out in the month of December twice a week. After January 3 days a week (Players on winter teams have a 2 day workout). Now I have blue cards that players fill out and I track their weight and attendance. If a kids does not come "I will ride them".. Where is Steve, Where is Steve.. Blah, blah, blah... I stay on him. I do not play the game of " I will pretend to not see my best player missing workouts for NO reason. I just can not do it. I hold everyone to the same standard". Kids who miss and make excuses just stop coming.. They push themselves off the fence.
Again this is me and I have been a head coach at two VA AAA schools with two different type of kids. And here is what they have in common -
If you have kids with poor grade and behave bad they will KILL YOU... Combine that with poor work habits - In my opinion as a coach you might as well get rope and hang yourself.. If you have a lot of those kids - they will absolutely KILL YOU... I have seen it time and time again.. Program after program. Good athletes who have academic issues, poor work habits... When you need that kid the most he will SCREW YOU!! Believe me - I know from first had experience. Now you may win some games off of talent. But if the inmates start to run the asylum - you will be gone. They will make it so bad you will not want to stay.
So my off-season process is just trying weed them out... Lets cut right to the chase. If the kids can not act right in the winter and spring what makes me think he will be fine in the fall. This is where I hold their feet to the fire and basically make them "Poop or get off the pot".. These are the fence sitters I speak of.
Good kids who work hard and are committed NEVER have a problem with me. They are some of the best kids I coach.
This works for me - But it is me. It is not false and the kids know it. I am up front and to the point. I think they respect and understand it. I can not be fake - hell I am Italian. How many pasta eating people like myself can hold in their feelings.. If I do not like it, I will say it. If I like it, I say it...
So maybe our definition of a fence sitter is different or maybe we just have two different philosophical ideas....
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 14, 2009 6:32:22 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback coach..I really appreciate it. I think our philosophy might be a little different but our approach the same..as I said before ...never been a HC..so I realize it is ALOT easier to say what I would do...
Happened to us the past two years...no doubt
Question: How do you get kids from the other sports to lift and how do you track it? Our basketball team has a "lifting" program..would that count..How can you hold kids accountable that are playing another sport?
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Post by lukethadrifter on Dec 14, 2009 7:12:30 GMT -6
Bigm, I like your style man! You and I should coach together. Laziness and apathy seems to be a problem that we have to combat on the athletic field and in the classroom a lot more than we used to 20 years ago or so. Nip that stuff in the bud early on when those kids are impressionable and before they know any different! They will love you for it later on. Kids have a lot more distractions today than we used to. Also in the area where I coach, the family structure is not as strong and disciplined as it used to be. There are still a lot of great, hard-working kids from good families, but not as many as their used to be. As coaches, we assume the role of "en loco parentis", or to translate, in place of the parent. Don't know if I spelled that right. The discipline, structure, and hard work ethic that we provide to these kids is much more than many of them are receiving at home. 25 years ago when the coach said to do something, we said yes sir and did it. We didn't question anything. And I don't remember many loafers. If we had any teammates that did that very much, we as teammates would set them straight. Many problems were solved before the coaches ever had to deal with it. Keep up the good work! Luke
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