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Post by morris on Nov 6, 2009 18:53:50 GMT -6
We have all heard if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying. This is from a big rival game in Louisville. The clip shows the play. Here is an article with an interview of the coach and the player involved. www.courier-journal.com/artic...n+illegal+playNow I am sure we have all witnessed teams using gamemanship (watering down the field etc) but at what point does it just become flat out cheating? How many coaches have something in the playbook they know is illegal but are willing to take a chance with it? We had a team last year that would line up in an illegal formation. They had to know it was illegal but still tried to sneak it by the officials.
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Post by eickst on Nov 6, 2009 20:18:36 GMT -6
That was pretty bad. The article link didn't work for me, did that play stand? If so that's pretty bad...
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Post by bulldogoption on Nov 6, 2009 22:32:26 GMT -6
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glcove
Freshmen Member
Posts: 62
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Post by glcove on Nov 7, 2009 5:59:11 GMT -6
When I first got into coaching my mentor told me that "all football coaches are snakes, & I would become one Too"
That play/coach is the King Cobra.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 7, 2009 7:59:16 GMT -6
I know Huey hates when I post rules but...
The Coaches Code of Ethics
The function of a coach is to educate students through participation in interscholastic competition. An interscholastic program should be designed to enhance academic achievement and should never interfere with opportunities for academic success. Each student-athlete should be treated as though he or she were the coaches' own, and his or her welfare should be uppermost at all times. Accordingly, the following guidelines for coaches have been adopted by the NFCA Board of Directors.
The coach shall be aware that he or she has a tremendous influence, for either good or ill, on the education of the student-athlete and, thus, shall never place the value of winning above the value of instilling the highest ideals of character.
The coach shall uphold the honor and dignity of the profession. In all personal contact with student-athletes, officials, athletic directors, school administrators, the state high school athletic association, the media, and the public, the coach shall strive to set an example of the highest ethical and moral conduct.
The coach shall take an active role in the prevention of drug, alcohol and tobacco abuse.
The coach shall avoid the use of alcohol and tobacco products when in contact with players.
The coach shall promote the entire interscholastic program of the school and direct his or her program in harmony with the total school program.
The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.
The coach shall exert his or her influence to enhance sportsmanship by spectators, both directly and by working closely with cheerleaders, pep club sponsors, booster clubs, and administrators.
The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical.
Before and after contests, coaches for the competing teams should meet and exchange cordial greetings to set the correct tone for the event.
A coach shall not exert pressure on faculty members to give student-athletes special consideration. A coach shall not scout opponents by any means other than those adopted by the league and/or state high school athletic association.
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Post by coachguy83 on Nov 7, 2009 11:30:23 GMT -6
Heck that didn't circumvent spirit or letter of the rule, it out right broke five or six rules. I'm all for knowing the rules and running unusual plays within the rules, but that play was bullsh!t in its purest form. The officials should have never allowed it, and I hope that crew doesn't get to do playoff games based on that play alone.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 7, 2009 12:41:49 GMT -6
The coaches deny that they called it. Anyone buy that?
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 7, 2009 12:53:48 GMT -6
The coaches deny that they called it. Anyone buy that? Where did you get that info? I didn't see that statement in a cursory reading of the article. Regardless, my answer is NO. SOMEONE had to instruct the kids in how to run the play. SOMEONE had to choreograph the entire thing... the kids didnt make that up in the huddle. So if the coaches didn't call that particular play at that particular time...at SOMETIME they had to install it.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 7, 2009 13:11:50 GMT -6
This is straight from the article:
Donovan and Male coach Bob Redman said Friday night that Donovan fumbled the snap and then picked it up
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 7, 2009 13:21:32 GMT -6
thanks John, like I said, it was a cursory reading, but regardless, I didn't buy it in the first play...
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Post by morris on Nov 7, 2009 14:45:04 GMT -6
Redman is known as the "old ball coach" of KY. He is either a guy you love or hate in this state. He has always been some what of a rebel. I completely agree it was a play that was designed and taught. Watch the playside (the side the center ran to) OL. They all down blocked.
Now we all teach kids get a PI before you give up the TD pass. Some (Redman) teach their DL to tackle the OL.
It just always gets me when a coach teaches a play that is known to be illegal. Redman is known for running a covered up TE up the field and not getting caught.
I found this all through a HS fan site. A player said they (not Male HS) use to run a center screen back in the 90s. I have no clue how that one was legal. It was not out of some pole cat type look. it just killed me how fans defended the play.
Like I said in my post before, I know some teams run plays that they KNOW are illegal. I just cannot understand that.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 7, 2009 14:52:20 GMT -6
You can run a center screen if the pass is backwards.
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Post by morris on Nov 7, 2009 14:59:41 GMT -6
yes I know but it was not backwards nor was the number legal
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Post by capncrunch on Nov 7, 2009 16:07:17 GMT -6
We always called that play the old "Center Sneak" and it was a great short yardage play back in the day...when I was 8 years old and in the back yard playing with my buddies!!! ;D
It's cheating regardless of who called or coached the play. Sure would be a hollow feeling to win a game on a play like that. It doesn't look like they fumbled the snap at all - the Center held the ball between his legs, paused and took off when the coast was clear.
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Post by morris on Nov 7, 2009 17:07:12 GMT -6
Do not forget the "center" was the TE. The TE moved to center for this play only.
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Post by statueleft on Nov 7, 2009 19:08:34 GMT -6
If the qb hands off to the left guard,is it illegal
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Post by morris on Nov 7, 2009 19:11:50 GMT -6
If the qb hands off to the left guard,is it illegal You can do that but the G has to have turned his back completely to his goal line and be at least a yard off the LOS. So he has to do a a 270 degree turn. If he is the RG the G would have to turn clockwise and gain depth to take the handoff.
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Post by coachjmcs on Nov 7, 2009 23:11:42 GMT -6
To me this is worse.....
A WR runs out of bounds and acts like he wasn't involved in the play and then another one down field runs off of the bench behind the safeties and tries to score.....
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Post by John Knight on Nov 8, 2009 7:57:18 GMT -6
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Post by coach31 on Nov 9, 2009 11:45:04 GMT -6
Who has time to practice plays that they know are illegal?
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Nov 9, 2009 12:27:20 GMT -6
2:19- Watch the left Guard, #11 (8 man - no numbering requirement) get tackled. This happened every time
How many coaches have something in the playbook they know is illegal but are willing to take a chance with it?
We don't. We don't have any illegal tactics either (no tackling guards, cutting lead blocking fullbacks, etc)... and I am starting to think I am wrong on this one.
Excuse some of this as bitterness (since we just lost a playoff game), but I think we are at a serious disadvantage if we are legal. While some coaches circumvent the rules, many officials do not even know they are doing it. I asked them to watch for it all night. The video shows about 3 of our plays...one with our guard giving up a single-leg takedown. (Granted... same video, we didn't tackle well either)
Every year... 5 or 6 games people cut our FB (NFHS rules), tackle our guards and do every illegal technique they can in order to stop us.
I'm starting to think like Billy Martin... "the rule book is good for when you go deer hunting and run out of toilet paper".
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Post by windigo on Nov 9, 2009 13:20:34 GMT -6
I'm a linemen when I hear if you aint cheating you aint trying I think about cheating by technique. Grab the pads. Quick jolt to the face mask. Hand underneath the face mask. Sink the hooks. Swat teh arms when he release to throw him off ballance (fantastic move by the way seldom coached). I've never agreed with plays that are designed to break the rules. Its one thing for a player to stretch the rules to gain an advantage on his opponent. Its another for a coach to flat out ignore the rules and designed an illegal play.
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 9, 2009 13:23:34 GMT -6
A cheater and a liar. What a coach.
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