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Post by brophy on Nov 3, 2009 12:36:25 GMT -6
SO DO YA?
I was wondering about this primarily from a perception standpoint .....mainly, is it largely regarded that folks that have a Wildcat package are "innovative" and are on the bleeding edge of football strategy? With all the hyping of this wrinkle since the Arkansas Darren McFadden days, I wonder if there is a perception-is-reality effect of programs that use a pseudo-wildcat package where they put a running specialist at QB and run jet sweep. And consequently, that if you DON'T run a wildcat, are people perceiving you/your staff as "afraid to think outside the box", or unoriginal, or just plain stoopid. If you run one, more power to you. If you don't, cool beans. I was just curious as to how this current trend may/could unknowingly impact coaching staffs. Many of those not coaching, may likely regard this as something more than it truly is, that if you don't run the wildcat, you're obviously missing something and/or not calling the right plays/putting the team in position to win games. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 3, 2009 12:42:57 GMT -6
we run a wildcat package.........but our QB was already our (and only) running back.......we really just added jet sweep (and viola!)
I just wonder if it (likely) makes us look 'smarter' or cooler than we really are.
Also, (if so) it may just be a good (political) move to just run something like this for 3-4 plays just to appease these people, as well.
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Post by bigballsincowtown on Nov 3, 2009 13:05:58 GMT -6
we are spread to run with a little jet sweep
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Post by dubber on Nov 3, 2009 13:29:51 GMT -6
I think you know the answer to your question, and it is: YES.
A lot of people run this for the same reason a lot of people ran zone read in the 00's, and more will run flexbone in the 10's...........
It's the new thang....so by GOD, put it in!
We run it, and all it is to us is tackle-over and a tougher running kid at QB.
Inside the 5's, it just made sense to us.
We really started working on this idea BEFORE the Dolphins surprised the Patriots, but after looking at some old SW playbooks.
You know Brophy, the fact I just capitalized "before" makes your point. There is a perception component to it that is perhaps outweighing the simple and sound strategical reasons why you would go cattin'............
And it shows by my insistance we as a staff aren't merely jumping the bandwagon.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
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Post by kahok on Nov 3, 2009 14:44:32 GMT -6
We run it with a Sophomore WR/DB who is one of the best we've had in our program. Our QB is 6'3" 225 so he can move up to a wing back. He leads on sweep around the outside, and on our keep play he acts as a fullback. Also he pass blocks on our pass play (backside slant) out of the wildcat. We did try to name it something different, but our last week opponents coach called it "wildcat" in the paper after the game. So now we are doomed to always have it named wildcat. Pretty pissed we didn't get to name it something more creative.
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Post by coachguy83 on Nov 3, 2009 14:47:49 GMT -6
I run the single wing any way so I just balance the line, add trips bunch, and flip flop my 1 and 2 back.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 3, 2009 16:10:11 GMT -6
Look, I was running direct snap (aka single wing) long before( 2000, 2001,2002) it was in the nfl as "cool and hip" and I took a good deal of ribbing for running "that dinasaur" that "the nfl doesnt run so it obviously doesnt work" (I swear someone on a high school hiring comittee actually said that). anyhow, I called it rhino and lion for single wing right and left, and beast and eagle for other sets that we used....now I despise that every time I talk about going back to the single wing for any time at all someone says "yall run wildcat"....argh.
we have ALWAYS included some direct snap stuff in our arsenal because i figure I dont really have a good third teamer for qb anyhow.
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Post by coachbdud on Nov 3, 2009 16:17:08 GMT -6
we ran it a bunch last year, havent had a lot of success this year but thats because we havent put the time into practicing it really. Last year we took our best player, a RB/WR and put him at QB, and ran a little jet off of it but this was just a way to get him more touches. We werent trying to be innovative. He missed a couple games due to academic problems, and then he pulled his hammy when he came back, so he has not practiced with the team very much, which is why our wildcat package hasnt done much for us this year. We didnt run it at all in our last game.
But it was huge for us last season, in some games it was the only way we could move the ball because this kid was just so much better than anyone else on the field.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 3, 2009 20:07:40 GMT -6
We just had this discussion the other day.
We ran dub wing this year and the parents hated it. What we talked about was using a single wing package next year and running our base package out of it.
Thing is...you can run the ball 95% of the time. If you do it under center, you're a caveman but if you do it from the shotgun, you're Urban Meyer! ;D
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Post by morris on Nov 3, 2009 21:05:26 GMT -6
I completely agree it is a perception thing. I also do not know if there is a term in the general football watching populace that makes me want to snap more. Ignorance in the general fan you sorta learn to look over some but this goes beyond. It reminds me of when a song catches on i.e Who let the Dogs out, Macarena, Whoomp There it is or well I think you get the idea.
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 3, 2009 22:21:00 GMT -6
Frankly, I'm p!ssed we have a package we call 'Wildcat' where our HB goes to QB. We're a fly team. We have the capability to run everything we do out of shotgun. We can have an athlete at QB. Calling it 'Wildcat' is just annoying fad-ism to me, which bugs.
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ramsoc
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by ramsoc on Nov 4, 2009 1:11:41 GMT -6
We run it. We're a Wing T team. Lil change up for teams who spend the whole week working on our wing t. We run ours just like the Dolphins.
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Post by lochness on Nov 4, 2009 6:25:32 GMT -6
We don't run it. I don't see how it would give us an advantage over what we do already, and it would simply take more practice time and energy to perfect a package like this.
As for what the "people" think...F- 'em. As long as the AD and school administrators are on our side, the kids are having a fun experience, and we win more than we lose, I could care less if someone thinks I'm an outdated unimaginative caveman who only knows how to take snaps from under center.
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Post by lochness on Nov 4, 2009 6:42:31 GMT -6
Besides, coach...the "Wildcat" is yesterday's news. The newest innovation is this offense described in the article below which features 3 RB's lined up in the backfield behind the QB running straight downhill every play. Get with the times, people!!!
Milford rolls over stunned Souhegan
By PAUL FEELY, Correspondent
MILFORD – What’s the formula for beating one of the best high school football programs in New England? Take an age-old theory, mix it in with an untested offensive scheme, and the end result is a night the likes of which stories are told for generations to come.
Anyone knows that the best offense in the world can’t beat you if you don’t let it stay on the field, and Milford executed that oldie-but-goodie game plan to perfection Friday night in pulling off the biggest upset in recent memory, a 23-8 drubbing at home of previously unbeaten and Division III favorite Souhegan.
The loss ended an 18-game win streak for Souhegan – dating back to Thanksgiving Day of 2007 – and caused ripples throughout the Division-III landscape as word spread that the defending champs had been bested.
“This is a big win for these players, these coaches, and this program,” said Milford coach Keith Jones, who hesitated to place it among the program’s best wins, citing instead the Spartans’ six state championships. ”We just beat one of the best, if not the best, high school program in New England.”
The win marks the first time Milford has beaten its archrival, in either the regular season or playoffs, since Souhegan opened as a school in 1992.
“Hats off to coach Jones and the Spartans,” Souhegan coach Mike Beliveau said. “Football is back in Milford. They came ready tonight, and they played their hearts out.”
The Spartans unveiled a new offensive wrinkle in the game, a football version of the classic “shell” game con men use. All three backs would line up behind the quarterback, and then head to the same hole as a group, thereby giving the defense very little time to see who was actually headed their way with the ball.
The result? The Spartans racked up 301 total yards on the ground, including 252 yards and three touchdowns by senior Josh Ibarra .
“That wasn’t something we had used before tonight,” Jones said. “It came out of some very creative thinking by the coaching staff. We knew we had to find a way to keep the ball moving, and keep their offense off the field.”
As rivalries go, there isn’t one bigger among local Division III entries than when these two teams line up opposite each other. But heading into last night’s game the Sabers were clearly favored to extend their current win streak to 19 games.
Souhegan had been clobbering opponents in the first half of the 2009 schedule, averaging 41 points per game on offense while its defensive schemes have held teams to just 42 points all season.
The Sabers were coming off a big 49-6 win against Portsmouth last week. The Clippers were considered by many to be the only D-III team with a chance to knock off Beliveau’s squad.
The Spartans, who had averaged just 11.4 points per game on offense over five games, were hoping they would possibly catch their opponents off guard.
Friday night, the Sabers could only muster 54 yards on the ground by Steve Jellison, while DJ Petropulos was just 9-of-24 passing.
The Spartans have reworked their offense this year after losing three-year starting quarterback Jeff Agnew to graduation, and the schemes had started to show signs of life in recent weeks with Milford taking two out of its last three (with a 51-6 loss to Division-IV powerhouse Plymouth the only blemish), and a defense that returned eight starters showed signs of solidifying.
It all came together Friday.
It was no secret going into this one the key to a Spartans upset would be keeping the Sabers offense on the sidelines. They achieved that throughout the first half. The Spartans came up big on the first Sabers possession of the game, forcing Souhegan to turn the ball over on downs.
Milford’s first possession lasted over 10 minutes, with the Spartans picking up five first downs before kicker Mark Hamilton punched it through the uprights for three points on a 16-yard field goal with 54 seconds left in the opening quarter.
The Sabers had great field position on the next possession, starting on the Spartans 43, but were forced to go four-and-out when Jellison was stood up by linebacker Harry Wolcott.
Milford took over, and on a 2nd-and-eight Ibarra spun out of a tackle and squirted out of the pack along the left sideline, streaking 78-yards for the score at 10:55, and suddenly Milford owned a 10-0 lead over its unbeaten brethren.
The Spartans went into lockdown mode on defense again, forcing the mighty Saber offense to go four and out, and the Spartans took over on downs at their own 44.
The followning drive featured a nice 29-yard run by Ibarra (175 yards rushing, two TDs in the first half), and ended when he punched it in from the 1. The kick was blocked, but Milford was on top 16-0.
The Sabers were able to get on the board before break, when Jellison glided in from 7 yards out and Petropulos picked up the two-point conversion. But after 24 minutes of play the Spartans entered the break on top 16-8.
The Spartans opened the second half with much the same style of play, starting near midfield and taking five minutes off the clock while scoring another Ibarra touchdown, this time a 3-yard run.
While the Sabers were able to move the ball late in the game, Milford continually came up with big stands to stop them, forcing turnovers on downs to preserve the lead, and the win.
I have this film, as one of my friends is on the winning team's coaching staff. The "HIGHLY IMMAGINATIVE" offense is a Power-I with Blast and Belly (double dive) basically as the only plays they ran all night.
It's amazing what winning a big game will do for your "creativity quotient." If I lined up in the same formation every down and ran two plays all night and LOST I'd be accused of being an unimaginative, boring, drooling idiot.
I think this kind of swooning is exactly what makes me laugh about the "Urban Meyer" offensive genius or the highly creative and exciting "Wildcat."
Offense is offense. Winning is the only difference in the minds of the ignorant between doing something "exciting and imaginative" and being a moron.
So, that being said, if anyone wants to start winning games and gettting 125 kids out for football every year...it's time to start INNOVATING!!!!!!!!!!! Send me $999.95 and you will receive my "Triple Whammy Offense" DVD's, manuals, t-shirts, jockey shorts, and sunglasses. Heck, give some to the booster club members!! This is the wave of the FUTURE............
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Post by coachbiggers on Nov 4, 2009 7:07:10 GMT -6
loch,
Can you please adopt me? LOL! You and DCohio are the business!
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Post by lochness on Nov 4, 2009 7:12:53 GMT -6
loch, Can you please adopt me? LOL! You and DCohio are the business! I'd be happy to adopt you. Are you eligible to play HS football? Perhaps 6'3" 275 lbs...with a 4.8 40-yard dash time and a 500 lb squat? |
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Post by morris on Nov 4, 2009 8:48:02 GMT -6
I would of guessed it was Maryland I from the description at first. That is some funny stuff.
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Post by lochness on Nov 4, 2009 9:13:18 GMT -6
LOL...reading the story I read: "a football version of the classic “shell” game con men use. All three backs would line up behind the quarterback, and then head to the same hole as a group" and then read: "The Spartans racked up 301 total yards on the ground, including 252 yards and three touchdowns by senior Josh Ibarra." and thought...shell game? Sounds to me like it was more of alright boys...check this out, B-gap, here we come...whack whack whack. Good ol' fashion smash mouth. I love it. That's exactly what it was. It was basic power-I (2 TE, standard I-formation, with a powerback lined up behind the Guard even with the FB) and they literally just ran Isos and Belly double dive to the second back all night. Innovative, indeed! |
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 4, 2009 9:45:32 GMT -6
We run it. We're a Wing T team. Lil change up for teams who spend the whole week working on our wing t. We run ours just like the Dolphins. Would you have considered instead just snapping thru your QB's legs, or moving the QB slightly to one side (angled to C or sideways)? |
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Nov 4, 2009 9:47:40 GMT -6
Baaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Nov 4, 2009 13:14:51 GMT -6
I understand running this system in high school, misdirection is a killer, I think that is why most teams who run the spread offense in highschool have a running quarterback over a drop back passer, they are already running "wild cat" It makes no sense to me personally how this offense works in college and pros, you are basically lining up and saying hey we are going to run it now stop us. For a lot of professional and college teams 75% of your offense comes in the air, because defenses at those levels stop the run better than a high school. Granted the dolphins had great success out of it, but I still don't understand taking your passing threat out of the game. You now have someone with the ball in their hands who if they do throw a route it is a go, or a post where now you are saying your receiver is a better athlete than the D-Back in front of them...You allow the defense to man up and come after your run. Our coaching staff had a great debate on it, basically it was me against the other 8 coaches, but I am still seeing no true advantage of hopping into this type of game plan at that level. Arkansas had great success with it, but with Darrin Mcfadden, and Felix jones it would not have mattered what they lined up to do. The other coaches here argue that the misdirection of it is what an offense needs, want misdirection play action pass, put a reciever on a deep motion behind the iso they are all the same thing, but you have the ball in the hands of the person who works passing every day of the week. I still see no reason to take the decision maker off of the field.
I am sure there are those who are pasionate about this type of offense just as I am with the spread veer game, but you rarely see a quarterback in the highschool level who runs the football go to the next level as a quarterback, they end up being slot back reciever types because they are athletes.
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Post by knighter on Nov 4, 2009 13:20:05 GMT -6
I have been a Wyatt guy since like, well almost forever.
I was "Wildcatting" when "Wildcatting" it wasn't cool.
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Post by coachsky on Nov 4, 2009 13:24:57 GMT -6
We call it BIG and we have been running it before it was vogue in the NFL. We get pi$$#d off everytime a reporter says we are running "Wildcat" because we started doing it three years ago based on what Rodriguez was doing at West Virginia and what they were doing at Akansas. This is from September of last year: www.youtube.com/user/mrob7#p/u/81/mB_Uvn_0sDIWe are way ahead of NFL trends! |
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Post by phantom on Nov 4, 2009 13:25:15 GMT -6
Last year our QB couldn't run so we ran a few direct-snap type plays. This year's QB can run. We discussed a Wildcat series but decided that it didn't make sense. The kid can run and although he's not as good of a runner as our TB the TB can't pass. That removes a threat. Seemed that that made life easier for the defense, not harder.
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Post by redandwhite on Nov 4, 2009 16:17:34 GMT -6
We are a spread pisto; team that runs Zone Read, Stretch/Jet, GT and Option, so we are basically a version of "wildcat" all the time. When our QB broke his collarbone in Game 2, we moved our best RB/Rec to QB, and just became a more run-oriented approach.
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Post by runandgunjt on Nov 4, 2009 17:51:06 GMT -6
There is nothing like having your best RB in the gun with an athletic FB next to him and running power off a jet fake. So many possibilities, so few defenders. Whatever it takes to feed the horse.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 4, 2009 20:08:10 GMT -6
No we don't run it, really don't feel the need to. We are an old fashioned dinosaur wing-t team, our parents would probably yell at us if we tried something different than we have been doing.
That article about the stack I/power I team was great. It really goes to show you how little some people writing the articles know. It's like when you are watching a major D1 team and they run jet/fly sweep and the announcers still call it a reverse or end around. You think someone on the production staff or someone on the coach staff that they talk with would tell these guys hey call it Jet/Fly sweep so you sound like you know a bit more about the game. Just a small pet peeve of mine.
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Post by eickst on Nov 5, 2009 9:46:38 GMT -6
I run Dave Cisar's UBSW and all of my parents think it's wildcat.
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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 5, 2009 12:21:02 GMT -6
We really kind of "Morphed" into it.. It is our offense.
We started the year under center running some jet sweep and IZ/Power....
Our QB sucks throwing under center so we put him in gun (With a 230 lbs fullback and a 230 lbs TE). Our QB is a "runner". Out of this we run empty Jet/Power (To the jet or away), IZ to or away from JET).
We run some read option (Read the 7 tech, 5 tech and 3 tech).... QB sweep and that is IT!! Some playactions off of jet and power...
So we have being doing this for about 5 weeks (4-1 that period... Have had our RB and QB BOTH run for over 100 yards in 4 of the games...).
Parents think we "revamped our offense" into Wildcat... Really it is what we do but in gun and in empty... Qb is just a good running threat.
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Post by CatsCoach on Nov 5, 2009 13:36:11 GMT -6
I would say yes and no! We are a spread team that runs Jet and have some QB runs as well. The only change we have for our wildcart is we put our WR/DB in a QB and just run the ball more.
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