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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 30, 2009 5:18:23 GMT -6
Gents- looking ahead to next season (yes, our season is over after just 8 games)
in 2010 its likely that we will only have 3-4 seniors and 8-9 Juniors next year and 5 sophs.
We will routinely face teams that carry 10-15 seniors and 8-12 Juniors. We are again going to be outmanned badly when it comes to size, strength and speed and athleticism.
I am obviously recruiting the hallways hard and am pushing for use of the wt room etc. We target the athletes, we target the good kids who are likely to be coachable and we ask everyone, we send letters home to everyone , theres no stone left unturned, ...there is no situation of "i didnt know" here. we talk to the ms staff, the ms kids and elem school kids too. we are a presence...
Looking for ANYTHING that I might be missing to get kids away from their x box, girl friends and jobs so that they play football.
now, discussions with kids give us ...
some kids tell me flat out " Its just too much work" and others tell me " you dont give football players special treatment" and others just say "Ill think about it" but getting commitment and building the numbers is really tough with the enrollment down. Theres always the few outlaws who say they dont like me because I discipline them in my classroom or in the cafeteria (lunch duty) etc when they think I should look the other way. Thats not going to happen. Theres a few kids who can run and hit that refuse to do their school work so they cant be counted on at all.
ideas?
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 30, 2009 8:04:53 GMT -6
You know.. I don't know if we can ever get teenagers away from distractions..part of being a teenager....My quick thoughts...put your offense on a video game...make highlights for your kids to watch on the video....get the girlfriends on your side..maybe a special T-shirt for them..my boyfriend is a varsity FB player??? IDK....tell kids it's okay to have a job..lifting is from 7:30-9:00...you can work anytime after that and on weekends...
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 30, 2009 8:19:21 GMT -6
I like the t-shirt idea. Only because some girls get jealous that they dont have one. 2 years ago had a kid come play football, ONLY so his gf could wear a jersey on Friday night.
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Post by coachks on Oct 30, 2009 8:26:01 GMT -6
You know.. I don't know if we can ever get teenagers away from distractions..part of being a teenager....My quick thoughts...put your offense on a video game...make highlights for your kids to watch on the video....get the girlfriends on your side..maybe a special T-shirt for them..my boyfriend is a varsity FB player??? IDK....tell kids it's okay to have a job..lifting is from 7:30-9:00...you can work anytime after that and on weekends... I'm not old enough to have played in the 'good ole days", but from what I gathered, football is no longer the only game in town. You gotta advertise your product. If you aren't winning, you do need some way to make the football program special. We have stat-girls who besides the obvious (keeping stats) do act as a sort of prestiege thing. The kids all buy various shirts to wear around (2 from us, one's a team thing). The kids associated with football are very visible. A highlight video would be cool, especially if you have a school-broadcast capabilities. Trying to get the girls as managers/stat girls/filmers or whatever else would probably garner some interest. Maybe slip in a few reminders to the team over the PA system (Team dinner is at ...., football players remember to bring....,) anything to spotlight the football players. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 30, 2009 8:31:16 GMT -6
airraider did something a few years ago, which was create youtube hilights of the team and post them on a football team myspace page (you could do something different, as myspace is so passe'). Needless to say, the social networking element of it kicked in and it DID attract quite a few new players into the fold.
Also, I would try to make off-season as the real season or reason to be out for football. Make it fun, make it competitive, and make it exciting. Don't stress over the turds that don't show up - pour everything into the kids that do show up. Be inclusive, not exclusive.
If you can swing it, take a group of your returning players to the state title game, local university practices/spring game, or something else (reward them).
T-shirts are big.
Do things completely unrelated to football (let them be kids) - go bowling, movies, skating, or whatever with the group of kids (another reward). Get involved in basketball and wrestling. you don't have to coach it, but show up for those games and let the coaches know you support them.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 30, 2009 9:17:54 GMT -6
1. "It's just too much work.." These are the kinds of kids that you don't want on your team; they won't give any effort during the season or out of it.
2."You don't give football players special treatment..." Sounds to me like you're dealing with selfish kids; again, kids you don't want in the program and parents that you don't want involved. Even money says that they're hearing that kind of crap at home.
3. "They don't like discipline." Too friggin bad; you can't live your life without discipline. Maybe you want them in the program so that they can learn.
Honestly, I agree with what brophy said, use the social networking to get some enthusiasm, as long as it's well controlled.
From what I have heard, it sounds like you have a difficult community on your hands. Maybe a community with folks in it that don't value athletics, a community that doesn't demand much out of their kids. So, I would try to get the community as involved as possible; get out there and promote the program from the outside in. Ask various businesses to decorate their buildings for home games. Ask the city if you can place banners in various areas around the community; where ever you can. Just keep selling athletics in general, everywhere possible.
If you win the community, you'll be in a lot better shape. There's a limit what you can do with your kids when you have them; find ways to build enthusiasm when they leave school and the practice field.
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Post by morris on Oct 30, 2009 9:42:56 GMT -6
Mike Leach might have some ideas about the girlfriends. Honeslty that is a battle that we are not are not going to wn a majority of the time.
Spend the 4.00 plus shipping and get the book Coaching and Control: Controlling Your Program, Tour Team, and Your Opponents. I got it because I saw brophy bring it up in a post and so far is very good.
I know they do not have the DW on NCAA 10 or Madden but why not get the kids to play some. It is a chance to talk football and it might help relate what you do to what they see on TV with the power, counter, traps, and the such. Maybe use it during breaks while having after school study hall.
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Post by brophy on Oct 30, 2009 11:10:34 GMT -6
just to add (or sum up) the musings about the off-season above...... how many times do we tell the kids....  "Hey, ___________, I LIKE you"This is what the off-season should be about. Kids seeing the coaches do stuff FOR them (not TO them) |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 30, 2009 11:36:45 GMT -6
TD,
I think with your off season stuff and your points system you are attracting the right kinds of kids to your program. Unfortunately, I think winning breeds participation, but it is hard to win if you don't have the participation.
Good luck, I think you are on the right path.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Oct 30, 2009 12:19:53 GMT -6
Do you do 7 on 7? Most of the tournaments here where we are don't cost very much and if you can get a couple of boosters to spring a little bit could help.
We went to several tourny's this past summer, one being a 2 day shootout. If you can find the right ones to get into they will pair you up with compitition for you, and not throw you to the wolves.
I think the kids enjoyed the over night trip mid summer and just seeing how some of the other teams work, and prepare could be a good influence for your kids.
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Post by coachsky on Oct 30, 2009 12:21:47 GMT -6
Our outreach starts early than Middle School.
In the Seattle area all the best programs have strong youth football programs. The best programs have youth programs that are built around HS boundaries. They have the HS name, same uniforms, and many of them run the same schemes.
Youth teams get to play a Friday night halftime showcase. They have youth football night with free hot dos for kids in uniform. Kids get to form a tunnel on the field.
Kids go up dreaming of playing on Friday Nights! It becomes part of the culture of the community.
That being said; people really want to follow a winner or at least a success story! Your going to have to show you can win.
I think if your undermanned you have to start building your system around speed and tight, tight, tight execution. Your just going to have to run your schemes to perfection and with some degree of innovation if you are going to move the dial against more talented programs. Gotta find a way to build success and gain momentum.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Oct 30, 2009 12:22:19 GMT -6
PS.
Our high school has one night a week during the summer, when all of the lineman will come up workout and eat.
I try to put together a cook out for the whole team at least once a summer. This past year the kids would show up with a couple of dollars a piece and run to the grocery store for hamburger meat and hotdogs, and ask that I bring my grill.
I have heard that food is the way to a mans heart....
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 30, 2009 12:23:08 GMT -6
I posted new off season motivation/incentives today.
we open the wt room today...let the point race begin.
some things we will do different, instead of one monthly winner, its the top three, instead of super eleven after three months they earn "stuff" at 100, 200, 300 and 400 points for the off season. I spelled it out, if you want more playing time, earn it, want to be a captain, earn it, want post season recognition, earn it. want choice of gear, earn it. WANT A GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL START? EARN IT. (400 POINTS).
we spell it out, heres how you earn points, heres what they are for...
I did already see some "hey were lifting, be there" conversations going on today, thats a plus. like many of you, i have kids who are already off to basketball. still, we want them lifting as much as possible anyhow.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Oct 30, 2009 12:26:47 GMT -6
I posted new off season motivation/incentives today. we open the wt room today...let the point race begin. some things we will do different, instead of one monthly winner, its the top three, instead of super eleven after three months they earn "stuff" at 100, 200, 300 and 400 points for the off season. I spelled it out, if you want more playing time, earn it, want to be a captain, earn it, want post season recognition, earn it. want choice of gear, earn it. WANT A GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL START? EARN IT. (400 POINTS). we spell it out, heres how you earn points, heres what they are for... I did already see some "hey were lifting, be there" conversations going on today, thats a plus. like many of you, i have kids who are already off to basketball. still, we want them lifting as much as possible anyhow. That sounds interesting. Is there anyway I can get a copy of what you list for guidelines and how they recieve points? |
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Post by gunrun on Oct 30, 2009 12:29:11 GMT -6
coachsky,
How long is your Friday night halftime showcase with your youth teams?
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Post by coachsky on Oct 30, 2009 14:04:03 GMT -6
coachsky, How long is your Friday night halftime showcase with your youth teams? 8 minutes. Just a scrimage for each team. 40 yards and in. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 30, 2009 16:59:09 GMT -6
I posted new off season motivation/incentives today. we open the wt room today...let the point race begin. some things we will do different, instead of one monthly winner, its the top three, instead of super eleven after three months they earn "stuff" at 100, 200, 300 and 400 points for the off season. I spelled it out, if you want more playing time, earn it, want to be a captain, earn it, want post season recognition, earn it. want choice of gear, earn it. WANT A GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL START? EARN IT. (400 POINTS). we spell it out, heres how you earn points, heres what they are for... I did already see some "hey were lifting, be there" conversations going on today, thats a plus. like many of you, i have kids who are already off to basketball. still, we want them lifting as much as possible anyhow. That's friggin fantastic, coach. That's exactly how I think it needs to be done. Give effort, work hard and good things will happen. That's the message that needs to be conveyed, period. I have coached in programs that say all of the right things but then don't follow through. They want effort and drive out of the kids, but then don't do anything to recognize those kids that work/play their guts out. Then, you're a hypocit, there's no way around it and everyone sees it. And, they play the lazy kids, the mouthy kids, the cancerous kids and don't recognize the detriment that they're doing to their program. The program I coach in now follows through with it; you work hard and you will play, at all levels. Now the kids can trust you because they know that you're honest. And again, you've shown them that you care before you've shown them what you know. |
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Post by superpower on Oct 30, 2009 19:49:45 GMT -6
Too much work is what we hear the most, followed closely by "oh, yea, Ima be there" and they never show. We are looking for ideas as well. Since our last game is tonight, there is no JV or Freshman game tomorrow, so most of the freshman and JV quit coming to practice. Now we collected their equipment, they aren't going to be recognized at the banquet but those things do not really address the problem. One of my freshman LB's, who could be pretty good next year, he comes down on Tuesday and says "Coach, since there is no more JV games, I'm not coming to practice anymore, my mom said it was time for me to start going to open gym for basketball." I said "well, OK. You should stay and work, but if you're willing to give it up that easily then I guess that's writing on the wall isn't it?" ~I said that, and he probably took that as it was out of my control, but I what I was really saying is "son you have absolutely ZERO chance of playing for me next year if you stop coming to practice this year." So, I email the AD, tell him about the kid...because at our school you can't quit one sport and start another...so, the AD walks into open gym, throws the kid out of open gym. Kid calls Mom, mom comes to school, she's mad and the AD basically told her he wasn't allowed to quit football and play basketball. Mom says "he didn't quit, his season is over" AD says "his season? I didn't realize his name was across the front of the Jersey, it's a team sport, he is either a member of the team or he's not." The mom says "he is a member of the team." AD says "really? Well they've been out there practicing since 3:45 and your son has been in the gym since 4:00...how's that being a member of the team?" The mom got mad and stormed out. Ah yea...got to love some of our parents. Seriously, can they really be that ignorant? We need more administrators like your AD across this country. |
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Post by coachguy83 on Oct 31, 2009 19:50:03 GMT -6
TDM this is a subject I have been giving some thought, because I am going to seriously start looking for a HS coaching job. I played at a small school very similar to your school and we had a lot of the same problems. I think you are doing right by the kids by pushing them to get in the weight room, and rewarding the kids that bust their tails. I am going to do the same things when I get a job. Some of the ideas I have come up with to try and get more kids involved is to have some fun with them.
I would have a team movie night once or twice a month in the offseason, encourage players to bring along friends that aren't on the team. This will let some of the kids that think you are a prick to see that you are a pretty cool guy.
Bring all your players in on a Saturday and have a xbox tournament. You can't compete with it so you might as well embrace it. Set up three or four TVs in the gym and let everyone play Madden or NCAA Football, feed them some snacks, have a prize for the winner, heck even get in the tournament yourself and give one kid the joy of kicking your butt.
Have a Super Bowl party for your players. This is just another chance to build some unity and have a good time. See if you can get some parents to fix some food, get a big tv, and just be guys.
Keep your points system going for the individuals, but also add the twist of putting the guys on teams. The winning team at the end of the season gets a prize, and maybe the losers have to help you put up equipment or something. The other twist on this that I know Ron Zook does at Illinois, is that if I member of your team gets in trouble the whole team gets punished. Now they are not only accountable for themselves, they are accountable for their teammates.
If I come up with anything else, I'll let you know.
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Post by brophy on Oct 31, 2009 20:55:48 GMT -6
Keep doing what you're doing, tdm, and as mentioned, the team approach might not be a bad idea.
Just an idea, you are real passionate about this, and maybe this off season, you might want to see if you can find/develop at least one guy you can learn to trust to be your right-hand man to help share the load. Maybe he's on staff, maybe he's not, and if so go out and find that guy and make room for him. You have a big load and if someone can help relieve you of your frustration, it might be the best thing towards changing the dynamic of the kids.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 1, 2009 3:52:33 GMT -6
I want to do much more in the off season but we are not allowed - we get one "organizational meeting" in the off season and we save that for June.
We did:
madden tournament /barbque at coaches house
handed out highlight videos after last year
monthly football newsletters
announcements sharing wt lifting performance
monthly pride award winner for top earner
players earned tees, sweatshirts and pizza during off season - i often handed those out at basketball games so the other kids would see it.
big summer cookout- included tee shirt
some of my players helped me with youth camp
in season free trip to college football game-wore jerseys, big tailgate party at the college campus for our kids.
pizza parties/snacks during study hall
donuts and juice/milk during film sessions
free tee shirts for being on the team (twice!)- ie summer workout tee shirt
cool trophies for mvp/academic awards/best lifter/top pride points/leadership award/hammer award
touch football during summer after lifting
backyard football in the mud on a rainy day after we were knocked from playoffs.
live tackling capture the flag type game
prison "hard time" dodge ball conditioning game
last off season we tried to do a march madness team event but it was kaput due to off season rules
mini camp- teaching but kept it fun
fund raising for our trip included free lunch (pizza and soda)
helmet stickers are big, the kids love them. gives them something to work toward even when a game is clearly lost. seemed to help with morale on a monday after a beating.
post season stats in hallways
we had a youth night blended with senior night. all pee wees adn ms kids came to gym to watch our pregame routine, then to field to form and flex with us, introduced at halftime....we scored 70 that night. that should help. ;D
the college football game trip was a good time that seemed to create a buzz around the school /kids who didnt play were probably wishing they had. I think we can say the same about the fun practices (ie backyard football- 8 man war)
Regarding the staff - I have a fantastic staff now that does indeed take over a bunch of the headaches that id otherwise have.
i have one guy that is on staff that happens to be boosters pres, that helps. I have two on staff that work in the building so they help with administrative stuff. its coming together in that respect.
the fact that every coach can now coach his position on defense helps immensely and theres one that wants to call plays on offense (can you say jv oc?) so that helps too. heck we just like each other and thats critical.
the parent support this year was fantastic. the moms group put together snack bags for both pre and post game chow (all away games) and they also organized a thursday night pasta dinner for the team. we even got lobster sandwiches on one trip.
none of that happened last year. so the "fun factor" increased even though we finished 2-6 with a young team. every kid, including our freshmen, played enough to get their varsity letters...so i hope that helps. what hurts us is that we didnt have jv and some of the freshmen to be are scared/turned off by that.
(at least I hear that from one or two ).
Keep the suggestions coming. a team superbowl party might be doable, do a madden tournament the same day....hmm...
In any case, I collected post season feedback from the kids, it was all positive, all of it. only negative comment was "I with the seniors didnt quit and we could have won more" and "i wish i played more when we were ahead" (from a kid who missed all of two a days) - I think this group had alot of fun and the boosters tell me that all of the parents seemed positive and supportive and the only real griping comes from parents of kids who didnt participate because they dont like the standards set.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 1, 2009 6:10:12 GMT -6
Something I could use some help dealing with is jealousy/undercutting of the program by a couple of guys in the community who really want to coach these kids.
They work on the kids and their parents at the local ymca, basketball games or wherever, often telling the kids and their parents what they want to hear. "johnny would do xyz if I was the coach" and "jarrod should be playing xyz"..."they wont win another game with xyz playing and so and so coaching"
Some of them like to play chicken little and broadcast that the program will die under my leadership due to low numbers because "two a days" 'lifting" "mandatory community service" " too much discipline" "too demanding" "too critical" or "kids dont like such and such" and whatever other thing they can manufacture to sabbotage our hard work. I had one senior player tell his dad that he wouldnt lift with me because I wasnt going to be the coach anyhow since so and so would be coaching the team he was only going to listen to him?!
essentially the upper classmen that quit the team were most likely worked on by the guys who may have wanted to sabbotage our season. there was some support for their quitting according to my sources. who knows though?
I have already heard that there is an element trying to work the parents of the freshmen coming up " they will get hurt because theres no jv, dont let your kids play". telling the parents that their son will lose his scholarship opportunity because the program is dying.... things like that.
from what I have been told and have experienced, the parents of the players are very supportive and happy, the parents of the kids who are linked to THAT ELEMENT on the other hand,(some of their kids are decent athletes but havent committed to football) they are making noise in the background. Is there a strategy that I should take to deal with that effectively? anyone have experience in that sort of thing???
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 1, 2009 20:01:12 GMT -6
Something I could use some help dealing with is jealousy/undercutting of the program by a couple of guys in the community who really want to coach these kids. Never been a header, so I have never had to deal with that particular situation, but is there anyway you can address it head on. I know when I was coaching college ball, there was a situation where some DB's were complaining behind my back about playing time. I sat all DB's in a room, and I addressed it head on. When in the open setting, I noticed a loss of bravado. I also made it clear (because for some reason it wasn't) that the starters who were listening and supporting the whiners) were not helping themselves. I put it this way " C...if you think I am screwing B...and you listen to B complain about it without telling him to shut up..you must agree with it. Therefore, B is starting this week, Not you... " C quickly told B to shut the hell up. |
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Nov 2, 2009 3:00:41 GMT -6
We need more administrators like your AD across this country. Clone that guy! |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 2, 2009 6:50:19 GMT -6
I also think that you need to look into your program and find you leadership and then bring them into the situation. Let them know that you'd like them to help you get those kids in the weight room and keep on pushing them. They could be your first line of defense; when they see kids not showing up for the offseason stuff, they need to get on them about it. We all know, as much as we hear from our vantage point, the kids hear a whole lot more. They're going to have the finger on the pulse of a program as well; they'll know why little Johnny (maybe a Suzy) isn't coming to weight room sessions and they can talk to them about that.
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