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Post by mariner42 on Oct 29, 2009 11:39:43 GMT -6
Backstory:
Our current HC is basically the interim HC for this season. Our former HC resigned to take another job elsewhere VERY late in the hiring cycle, so we asked a former HC from the past who had been slated to be the JV HC to take over while we get a proper start on the HC search next year. The result has been a season and team that we've literally cobbled together as we go. I was hired as DC by the now-resigned HC, but kept because of a desire for continuity. Our OC is another 'blast from the past' who has a lot of experience, but the community is very much against him.
The Team:
Our seniors have a toxic, negative, and lazy attitude that reaches it's apex in four of them. One was our senior QB who has recently quit, one is our FB, two are back up sweepers/DBs. Last Thursday during our bye week, all four plus one of our captains skip practice in protest of the QB being demoted behind a starter. This is only an issue because of our OC's rep in our community. Regardless, the others came back with punishment, the QB quit after.
The Issue:
Our remaining 3 turds have literally stated that they don't want to give us the satisfaction of them quitting. They come to practice, stand in the back (I caught one texting the other day, during practice), and exude negativity and defiance. Our HC doesn't want to boot them because, in our haste to assemble a working staff and season, we neglected to put down a disciplinary code in writing. He's afraid of involving lawyers and legal proceedings and all that jazz if we were to kick them off without a stated disciplinary code.
I'm literally at my wits end with these kids. Can't stand 'em being a part of what we're trying to do, can't remove them without direct defiance. What's your move?
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 29, 2009 11:51:38 GMT -6
Just make them run all practice. They'll quit. And if they don't, they'll at least be out of your way.
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Post by coachbiskits on Oct 29, 2009 12:00:31 GMT -6
Let them continue to stand and watch as you coach up the kids to whom football means something. Make it clear, and in no uncertain terms, that any negative actions or comments WILL be grounds for dismissal (give them examples that you feel are important) and make sure the rest of the team hears this as well. We have 4 ( of 5 ) seniors who are "hurt" this week as we are playing the # 1 team in our section, all waiting to get back next week for our rivalry game. Can't wait to see their faces when they show up dressed on Monday and are asked to jump right in...with the JV look squad.
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Post by brophy on Oct 29, 2009 12:08:20 GMT -6
if they continue do something (texting during practice?) not conducive to the learning environment, just send them home that day.
It would count as an absence. 3 absences and you're gone.
I don't think you have to pull your hair out here (or make it into an "us" versus "them" battle). Just take action towards a desired outcome - take steps (1st - verbal redirection, 2nd - run, 3rd - go home) and not go nuclear right away.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 29, 2009 12:17:17 GMT -6
I dont really see the question here.
Its insubordination to do anything other than what you are told as a member of a sports team.
a) run them
b) bench them
c) collect their gear
d) both a and c are correct
e) both a and b are correct
f) both b and c are correct
g) all over the above
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Post by tiger46 on Oct 29, 2009 12:46:23 GMT -6
Mariner42,
I don't coach HS. So, I probably shouldn't chime in on this. But, here goes.... I thought m.p.p. rules only applied to some youth leagues. The Bench; it is your friend. Use it. None of them would ever see the playing field again, except from a sideline view. Once the other players know that the cancers will never play again, the cancers will lose status.
Position changes. That should be unnecessary. But, positions are not birthrights. Move them to other positions. Since they are so-called 'skilled position' players, I'd move them to D-line and/or O-line.... where they'll suck and therefore can't justify being placed higher on the depthchart at their new positions.
You are not obligated to ask them to do anything more than once- or, at all. You ask them to do a drill or, whatever. They give a half-hearted effort or, outright refuse. You replace them and continue. Never ask them to do anything else...ever. Since they don't do anything, they don't play. They can't say that they've never been asked.
I don't like negative motivators nearly as much as I like positive ones. But, in this case, if you really don't have the choice about removing them from the team. You don't have to kick them off the team. You metaphorically put their heads on pikes as examples for all the rest of the senior pariahs to learn from.
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Post by coachguy83 on Oct 29, 2009 12:57:06 GMT -6
I also don't coach hs ball, but I'm going to chime in. Tell them to turn their chit in and hit the road. They are killing your team and you just might end up doing something positive for them. They aren't going to get away with that crap after they graduate.
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Post by fbdoc on Oct 29, 2009 18:55:15 GMT -6
You don't need a handbook with "written" rules. Tell them what is expected. Brophy's 3 steps are a Best Practice for coaches - You are not kicking them off the team - THEY are choosing to leave the team by their continued behaviors.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 29, 2009 22:58:37 GMT -6
How the hell does he text while in practice?!?! Where does he keep the phone, in his thigh pad pocket?
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Post by jpdaley25 on Oct 30, 2009 5:24:55 GMT -6
Document their actions if you think legal proceedings might result and then take up their equipment.
It sounds like the HC just doesn't want to deal with it. The problem will graduate in a few weeks, right?
Based on your situation and the climate in your area, he may be making the right move.
It's not what I would do, but he may think that fight isn't worth it at this late stage in the season.
I like the "just let them run the whole practice" suggestion if he's not going to give them the boot.
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Post by tiger46 on Oct 30, 2009 8:11:32 GMT -6
How the hell does he text while in practice?!?! Where does he keep the phone, in his thigh pad pocket? Youth football: At last Wed.'s practice, we had been doing full contact blocking drills for about 10mins. I stopped the drill since it was time for a break. My RG walks over to a nearby tree, picks up a phone and calls his mother.  I was the one that had given his brother and him a ride to practice. I never saw a phone. He had to have had it in his pants. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 30, 2009 9:52:18 GMT -6
Don't even mess with them, collect their gear and send them home. If they refuse, get the administration involved.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 30, 2009 10:22:45 GMT -6
In my experience these are the kinds of kids that ultimately will get you fired. Just do everyone a favor and say "bye bye". they obviously think they run the show.
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Post by scotdaking on Nov 2, 2009 15:27:56 GMT -6
I coach 7-9 yr olds. Granted, this behavior makes any caring coach want to puke but as coaches we are not always blessed with Hines Ward or LT.
I would run them for sure and while they are running I am doing my best Vince Lombardi imitation. I am preaching/screaming how champions are first good listeners. How champions remain disciplined. How champions implement instruction. How champions are good leaders. How champions practice like champions.
I tell them this game is not for everyone. This game is not for the weak minded. This game is not for choir boys. If you don't like contact go play flag football. But if you choose to play for this team we will prepare, plan, practice, and play like Champions. ...And if i see/hear another cell phone i will shove it up your.......just kidding.
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Post by mitch on Nov 2, 2009 20:10:06 GMT -6
Take their stuff up. Tell the office they need a schedule change. Wipe you hands clean of them.
Legal proceedings??? WTF???
Nobody has the right to play, it is up to the coaching staff to allow someone to play, or take away that privilege. Their actions are no doubt grounds for dismissal.
What is going to keep someone from doing the same thing next year if you allow them to stay???
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 20:21:40 GMT -6
Backstory: Our current HC is basically the interim HC for this season. Our former HC resigned to take another job elsewhere VERY late in the hiring cycle, so we asked a former HC from the past who had been slated to be the JV HC to take over while we get a proper start on the HC search next year. The result has been a season and team that we've literally cobbled together as we go. I was hired as DC by the now-resigned HC, but kept because of a desire for continuity. Our OC is another 'blast from the past' who has a lot of experience, but the community is very much against him. The Team: Our seniors have a toxic, negative, and lazy attitude that reaches it's apex in four of them. One was our senior QB who has recently quit, one is our FB, two are back up sweepers/DBs. Last Thursday during our bye week, all four plus one of our captains skip practice in protest of the QB being demoted behind a starter. This is only an issue because of our OC's rep in our community. Regardless, the others came back with punishment, the QB quit after. The Issue: Our remaining 3 turds have literally stated that they don't want to give us the satisfaction of them quitting. They come to practice, stand in the back (I caught one texting the other day, during practice), and exude negativity and defiance. Our HC doesn't want to boot them because, in our haste to assemble a working staff and season, we neglected to put down a disciplinary code in writing. He's afraid of involving lawyers and legal proceedings and all that jazz if we were to kick them off without a stated disciplinary code. I'm literally at my wits end with these kids. Can't stand 'em being a part of what we're trying to do, can't remove them without direct defiance. What's your move?Oh you don't have to boot them.....they'll walk, on their own...if you know how to "Show them the way". Ever see "The Junction Boys" ?...if they're not going to give you the satisfaction of quitting.....take it from them. Remember this quote from the great Vince Lombardi "fatigue makes cowards of us all" Shoot me a PM I'll give you a roadmap if you like |
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