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Post by coachks on Oct 2, 2009 10:35:09 GMT -6
I'm not a huge NFL fan, but I'll watch a game or two a week (and, of course, the playoffs). However, this year I'm just absolutely disgusted with the way the rules are setup.
I truly don't understand why an NFL team would ever run the ball unless it's goalline or 3rd and inches.
The rules on hitting the QB are ridiculous. If a NFL team drops back 40 times a game (and they will) you can expect 2 15 yard penalties for roughing because your hand grazed his head or his leg. Getting a pass rush is almsot counterproductive because you have 50% odds on getting a penalty.
And illegal contact is assinine. You can't touch a receiver after 5 yards, and if you do...it's an automatic 1st down? It's 3rd and 25 and you grace a guys numbers with your hand, 1st down? What?
And of course, I've seen the penalty called at 2 or 3 yards, well within the 5, so they really just don't want the receivers touched.
But how are you supposed to cover without touching a guy? Drag routes through the LB can't be chucked or else it's 5, double moves can't be touched, you can't cut off a receiver on a streak. You can't play press man. They force teams to play a soft zone, and not rush the QB or risk a pentalty.
Oh, and you can't hit too hard either, or else it's a $20,000 fine and 15 yards. Safeties can't even hit a WR who catches a post because it's a penalty almost every time. If you want to eliminate spearing, fine, that's a penalty. But a safeties shoulders can't hit the WR's head. Even if the DB goes low to avoid that penalty, WR's slide down and end up hit in the head, and it's a defensive penalty.
If the NFL wants to protect the QB and WR, maybe they shouldn't drop back 40 times and run their WR's over the middle every play. If you don't want to get your QB killed, max protect him instead of going 5 wide. Don't want a WR killed, stop running skinny posts into the safety.
Couple that with the plain jane NFL running game, that doesn't work, and I don't understand why NFL teams bother running.
Have a team throw it 70 times a game and they'll get 7 1st downs off penalties alone.
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Post by airraid77 on Oct 2, 2009 10:47:16 GMT -6
Can I ask what nfl teams are suppose to run?
I dont agree with the rules either, but its coming to the local hs teams near you.
The nail in the nail in coffin or that breaks the money machines bank, is when, and they will try, to take the head TOTALLY OUT OF FOOTBALL. If they succeed in doing that? say hello a-11.
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Post by Yash on Oct 2, 2009 11:05:59 GMT -6
So the play action passing game that is quite successful in the NFL would be non-existent. If you don't run the ball teams then gameplan for the pass, changing the defensive look you get meaning they would rush 3, play 8 in coverage, giving you the perfect look to run the ball, but you don't want to run the ball because there are free first downs in the passing game, so you stick to passing it.
The balance is what makes NFL offenses work. Peyton manning is a great QB not because he throws it 50 times a game but because his playfakes draw linebackers and safeties up allowing him to hit guys in the alleys.
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Post by coachks on Oct 2, 2009 11:10:54 GMT -6
So the play action passing game that is quite successful in the NFL would be non-existent. If you don't run the ball teams then gameplan for the pass, changing the defensive look you get meaning they would rush 3, play 8 in coverage, giving you the perfect look to run the ball, but you don't want to run the ball because there are free first downs in the passing game, so you stick to passing it. The balance is what makes NFL offenses work. Peyton manning is a great QB not because he throws it 50 times a game but because his playfakes draw linebackers and safeties up allowing him to hit guys in the alleys. If a team rushed 3 and dropped 8, they would have up 40 a game. An NFL getting that much time would shred any defense. That just goes back to the popular cliche, prevent defense prevents you from winning. |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 2, 2009 11:28:06 GMT -6
The reason the NFL teams run the ball is ball control/ball security.
Even with the pussed out rules, it's still the NFL. The guys on defense are still freakishly quick and talented. The coverages are still ridiculously complex. Throwing is still hard. That means you need to have a QB who's freakishly talented himself (and doesn't throw INTs) if you want to make a living throwing 50+ times a game. There aren't many of those, even in the NFL. If the average NFL team were to try it they'd be turning it over 4-5 times a game.
An NFL team may be able to mitigate this by going with more of an Air Raid approach: lots of short, safe throws that are really more like running plays, but in order to make it work vs those freaks in the secondary they'd still have to stretch a defense vertically. When everyone in the secondary, and even some LBs, runs 4.4 it's hard just to get the ball past them.
But yeah... it's disgusting how the game has been devolving into flag football in pads for the QBs. If the league wasn't afraid of teams using QBs as featured runners they'd make it a rule that you could never hit one.
The NFL thinks that passing=ratings=money. This is borne out by TV numbers and TV commentators/fans whining about "ugly" games with 10-7 scores and 300 yards combined rushing.
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2009 11:46:07 GMT -6
I agree with the OP (and I think you all are MISSING his rather obvious point ---- DPI and QB protection rules)  I thought it was pretty clear that he wasn't seriously advocating not running the ball) On the other hand, WHO is really attending these games when tickets START at $100 and season tickets require a $4k PSL (retainer) for the right to purchase tickets? Seriously. College ball is fine....but the NFL game has become unwatchable for me, which is sad (IMO). TV breaks, constant FOX/CBS promotions, ridiculous penalties, {censored} camera angles (meant to emphasize the drama of the 'characters'), and blathering on about player personalities.... |
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Post by blb on Oct 2, 2009 11:54:47 GMT -6
WHO is really attending these games when tickets START at $100 and season tickets require a $4k PSL (retainer) for the right to purchase tickets? Seriously. Not me. Been to two pro games (if Lions count as professional football) in my life and was invited to both so didn't have to pay. I'll watch it on TV if there isn't something funny on another channel. Don't have time, get enough football, during our season and watching college on Saturdays. |
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Post by coachks on Oct 2, 2009 12:10:58 GMT -6
I agree with the OP (and I think you all are MISSING his rather obvious point ---- DPI and QB protection rules) I thought it was pretty clear that he wasn't seriously advocating not running the ball) On the other hand, WHO is really attending these games when tickets START at $100 and season tickets require a $4k PSL (retainer) for the right to purchase tickets? Seriously. College ball is fine....but the NFL game has become unwatchable for me, which is sad (IMO). TV breaks, constant FOX/CBS promotions, ridiculous penalties, {censored} camera angles (meant to emphasize the drama of the 'characters'), and blathering on about player personalities.... So the dancing robot on fox doesn't add to the production value? |
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Post by phantom on Oct 2, 2009 12:11:45 GMT -6
I agree with the OP (and I think you all are MISSING his rather obvious point ---- DPI and QB protection rules) I thought it was pretty clear that he wasn't seriously advocating not running the ball) On the other hand, WHO is really attending these games when tickets START at $100 and season tickets require a $4k PSL (retainer) for the right to purchase tickets? Seriously. College ball is fine....but the NFL game has become unwatchable for me, which is sad (IMO). TV breaks, constant FOX/CBS promotions, ridiculous penalties, {censored} camera angles (meant to emphasize the drama of the 'characters'), and blathering on about player personalities.... Expensive tickets and PSLs? Sounds like big time college football. OK, colleges don't call them PSLs. In top programs, though, you have to make a "donation" to the booster club in order to be eligible to buy season tickets and they appropriate those tickets based on the amount of the donation. Single game tickets? Get aquainted with StubHub and Ebay or a guy outside the stadium. $100 tickets happen. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 2, 2009 13:22:09 GMT -6
Expensive tickets and PSLs? Sounds like big time college football. OK, colleges don't call them PSLs. In top programs, though, you have to make a "donation" to the booster club in order to be eligible to buy season tickets and they appropriate those tickets based on the amount of the donation. Single game tickets? Get aquainted with StubHub and Ebay or a guy outside the stadium. $100 tickets happen. Er...uh....I guess the point is, there are 32 "elite" NFL teams.....there are 119 DI teams, and and endless number of FBS, DIII, DII, and JUCO teams anyone can check out.....so, I don't consider the minority that proves the rule The second point is ---- yes, the rules in the NFL make it nearly impossible to actually play defense from a fundamentally sound perspective. Don't touch the QB, don't even get near him and APPEAR that you might harm him (the new knee rule). Don't touch the receivers in their route or right after the catch. Make sure you don't get near a ball carrier after the whistle. If you get there a fraction of a second after the whistle it is a personal foul. Don't tackle from behind (horse collar) Don't touch the helmet of the QB. It would be interesting to measure the ratio of snaps to 1st downs gained by penalty over the past 20 years in the NFL. |
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Post by pantherpride91 on Oct 2, 2009 13:40:28 GMT -6
I stopped watching NFL football when they outlawed the comeback block this year because Hines Ward (who I used to hate because of how good he is and how much I wanted him on our team, as I was a huge Bengals fan) broke the jaw of a 255 LB in Keith Rivers. The second I heard that rule during a preseason game I turned the game off and have not turned on an NFL game since. I watched golf last Sunday and my wife asked me if I needed my head checked.
Hello!!?! This is phuking football. From the second you put on a helmet and shoulder pads your pee wee coach says play with your head on a swivel!!!
If the NFL is either too embarassed or wants to wussify the league because a wide reciever knocks out a linebacker than I got better things to do with my time.
I dont know about you guys but we crack block about 4 or 5 times a game with rocket toss, and the block Hines Ward put on Rivers would be known as a big stick! It would also get a atta boy from the coaches and replayed in slow motion about 10 times in films!!
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 2, 2009 14:47:30 GMT -6
WTF?!?! Crack backs are illegal now too??? I've barely watched the NFL the last few years but good lord!
I'm just waiting for them to make it illegal to touch the QB at all behind the LOS.
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Post by airman on Oct 2, 2009 15:23:09 GMT -6
I think it is foolish to say there is no contact down field past 5 yds. I watch a few games. DBs and Wr are bumping into each other all the time as they run. The fact is in the NFL why would you not throw the ball ball. most teams want to play man coverage with their shut down corners we all hear about on draft day.
if you do not like the rules blame the patriots for their blatant subversion of the rules. they would teach their dbs to hold wr all the way down the field.
At the COOL clinic they talk all the time about why the run game is so limited. It mainly has to do with all the teaching they have to do with regard to picking up blitzes. So much time has to be spent on pass protection because of the vast amounts of blitzes dc are able to create.
I like the college rules when it comes to passing the ball. the db can make contact as long as the ball is not in the air. while the NFL is overkill to some degree high school refs are under kill. I think can think of many times the refs at high school games being so out of position when it comes to pass plays. I think it has to do with how few teams throw the ball.
one time I had a ref tell me it was a uncatchable ball and that is why he did not call pass inter. I read him the rule that it does not matter at the high school level. He kind of looked shocked.
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Post by Yash on Oct 3, 2009 8:52:51 GMT -6
WTF?!?! Crack backs are illegal now too??? I've barely watched the NFL the last few years but good lord! I'm just waiting for them to make it illegal to touch the QB at all behind the LOS. Crack back blocks are only illegal when you lead with the helmet or put and part of your body to the helmet of the opponent. A shoudler to the chest or forearm to the chest is still legal. |
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Post by pantherpride91 on Oct 3, 2009 12:00:33 GMT -6
That is the exact same wording as with the "defenseless reciever" and everytime a reciever gets knocked silly coming across the middle on a good legal hit the flags and fines come...
If you saw the Hines Ward hit he was clearly within the rules, but it would be a penalty this year
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 4, 2009 16:12:00 GMT -6
I think there is a distinct difference between the Hines Ward play, hitting a defenseless receiver, and the current type of play that is being penalized on a regular basis (and was just called against the Saints Safety moments ago). This needs to be fleshed out a bit more this offseason.
With the way the rules are stated, AND especially as they are being applied on downfield throws (both in the NFL and NCAA) I am going to get penalties when I throw the post route. The original poster has a completely valid question/comment here. It is analogous to driving the lane in the NBA. Why would any team NOT heavily rely on the dribble drive in the NBA (assuming they can shoot freethrows well.).
Yash--I don't believe what you propose would work because of the no contact rules. Dropping 8 in a "hands off" environment would not really benefit teams much.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 4, 2009 18:22:47 GMT -6
How many of you guys even watch pro or college football during the high school season?
I don't...coach's meeting at 7AM on Saturday morning followed by film session with the kids from 9AM-10AM or so. Then, breaking down opponent's film, making scout cards for the next week, putting practice plans together, and then finding time for grading papers, lesson plans, and my wife and kids...not much time for TV.
I can honestly say that I don't know who the top college teams are right now, what their records are, top players, etc, etc...
Season will be over for us in 3 weeks...I'll start getting caught up then with college and NFL teams. But right now, the only football I'm watching is our film and our opponent's film.
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Post by coachk12 on Oct 4, 2009 19:12:10 GMT -6
Ravens had a few things to say after their game with the Patriots today.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 4, 2009 19:37:21 GMT -6
Delta, I am with you. I did however, record the Notre Dame game and watched it over the weekend and caught a part of the Ravens game while on the eliptical trainer.
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I thought it was pretty clear that he wasn't seriously advocating not running the ball) 
