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Post by coachlacefield on Sept 21, 2009 10:57:10 GMT -6
Hi coaches. I've got a situation I have been trying to figure out how to resolve but have been unable to do just that.
I coach 9-11 year old PeeWee2 league in our town. There are 6 other teams in our league. This season we have one of the better teams in the league talent-wise but one kid on the team is holding back our potential.
I've searched everywhere online for tips but I have not been able to figure out how to word the question.
He's got a Me-First Mentality. He's a very athletic child and very eager to play the game. The major problem with him is that he thinks he's the only one that can carry this team. He's a returning player from last season and even last season he had this mentality. It's gotten so bad that he's been banned from defense. The league requires a minimum of 1-quarter of playing time.
So he started the season as our primary receiver. He's a very smart and athletic kid so I tasked him with learning WR, QB, WB, and RB. He's been able to grasp all of the duties from each position with ease. Well, we lost our starting quarterback for the time-being until we get a note back from his doctor saying he can return to contact sports (he was suffering headaches, non-football related). We have another child that has a heck of an arm and is tall and fast. The kid in question is short but fast and has a good arm. He's also the more experienced of the two as he played quarterback for us some last season.
So we lost our first two games, with another game being cancelled due to mother nature. The first game we lost by a score of 16-14, but would have gone into overtime had we not been tackled in the endzone.
Second game we lost 16-12 but had better chances of winning the game because we were up 12-8 but once again we found ourselves tackled in the endzone.
The player tackled in the endzone? The kid in question, our quarterback. The reason we were tackled in the endzone? Both instances were of the same reason. It was because we had called a pitch to get our strong runningback to follow his lead blocks to the gaping wide hole on the outside and hopefully break for a first down and put ourselves in better position to run the clock down. Instead, both instances where we gave up a safety to the defense, the QB pretended that he heard the receiver give him the wrong play call and decided to try and run the ball himself. He has this mentality that if he's not getting the ball, then we lose.
The first game we put up 14 points and both touchdowns were ran in by him but both were on busted plays and both were because a key block was made that thrust him into the endzone. One of those key blocks was because our tiny receiver threw himself into an unexpecting large defender which opened up the rest of the way.
The second game, we put up 12 points, both were on runs by our strong marathon-running (literally, he runs 5Ks and 10Ks) runningback and both came from key blocks (one up the middle, the other on the outside).
Apparently, from what we've been able to pick up on when questioning what happens in the huddle, the receivers are giving him the correct play but he pretends he heard a different play. On plays designed to go up the middle, he'll drop back to hand the ball off by sticking the ball out but them pull it back in and claim it was becaues the runningback didn't get the ball. Most of the time the runningback did fail to fire off the snap but the QB never even puts the ball in the runningbacks pocket, insteading pretending to hand it off, then tuck and try to run.
We call a pitch and he'll start out doing the reverse pivot like he's supposed to but instead he'll keep the ball and boot claiming it was because the runningback just stood there.
Everytime he speaks, our primary runningback's attitude goes sour because apparently even when they are at school or hanging out, the quarterback is making claims that he's better than everyone on his team and that the only way we're going to win games is if we feed him the ball. Our primary runningback is a fantastic kid but gets so down on himself when he hears this talk coming from someone who's supposed to be his friend (they hang out outside of football) and teammate.
My coaching staff and I believe that the kid is bringing the team down by creating dissention at practice and at games. We had our special teams coach at the last game finally raise his voice at the kid.
After the first game, the kid was complaining and even threw his helmet down after we lost. He did that last season, too, and we even got onto him about it. He even pointed fingers at who was to blame for the loss. Second game, after we got to the sideline, he started out with his usual "I'll tell you why we lost! It's because ..." and before he could say one more word, our Special Teams Coach jumped down on him getting loud saying "SHUT UP! IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU! IT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT YOU!". I don't remember the rest but the kid shut his yapper finally but you could tell by the looks on the rest of the kids faces that they were really down despite looking like they had the most fun of their lives out there just before the game ended. Then he starts his little tirade and the team looks down.
So any advice on how to handle a kid like him? He's already been banned from defense because of his attitude and tonight I'm planning on sitting him quite a bit in favor of our inexperienced but 10x better positive attitude quarterback. I'm going to inform him that he's been demoted to only 1-position and that in order to earn back the right to run the football, he's going to have to prove not only to me and the coaching staff but the rest of his teammates that he can learn to play as a team and starting playing unselfishly.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 21, 2009 12:09:42 GMT -6
YOU allowed this situation to unfold, the fault lies with you.
My player contract specifically talks about throwing gear, 1 strike and you turn it in
In 17 seasons of doing this, no one has done it.
If ANYONE changed the play I called they would come out IMMEDIATELY to sit on the bench for the rest of the game.
You have enabled him and by doing so, not helped him or your team.
All this and no one has raised their voice to him or sat him?
You have more problems than an anemic offense ( 2 safetys in 2 games) to deal with.
Move him to offensive line or tight end, I wouldnt bother putting him at QB, no selfish player like that would ever touch the ball on a team I coached.
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Post by coachlacefield on Sept 21, 2009 14:01:39 GMT -6
Oh, I agree. I did let it fester and it comes back to me not stepping up. I've tried talking to him in a one-on-one situation about how his poor attitude is affecting the rest of his teammates in a negative manner. He responded positively but it seemed like the next day he would come back with the same piss-poor attitude.
There was talk going around that his parents were getting fed up with their son being stuck out at wide receiver, the bad position to play because we didn't throw the ball very often. Well, of course not because we were still learning the basics of running the ball and blocking. During practices he would grow bored playing wide receiver because we never threw the ball his way and would give up on blocking after a short while. I designed a few plays to get the receivers a running play (reverse and even a sweep) but we hadn't even mastered your off-tackles, dives, and sweeps by the wingback yet and the new plays would require timing and coordination on all parties. They were talking about removing him from the team because we weren't giving him the ball out at wide receiver but as said before, we couldn't get him to play hard past one or two plays and he's got this attitude that he's the best player on the team.
We've all raised our voices to him before and pulled him. The Special Teams Coach is usually more passive but stern, rarely ever raises his voice. On Saturday's game, he finally raised his voice because he was fed up over the same attitude he showed at the first game.
So tonight, I'm going to be showing him the Player Contract he agreed to and remind him of what it takes to play as a team. I've already spoken to the OC about it and he won't be starting at QB in tonights game, being pulled in favor of the least experienced but 10x better attitude player. When he sees the field it will be in a controlled setting, such as blitzing the backfield to stop the end-around that we are guarenteed to see. Any future poor behavior towards the coaches and his teammates, and I will be benching him for a game. His parents will be notified as well and if they have anything to say about it, I will be meeting with him and his parents in a one-on-one situation with my coaches. If the behavior continues any furthur down the road, then I will be asking the league of the possibility of removing a player that is disruptive of the team environment.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 21, 2009 14:25:20 GMT -6
If I had a wideout that wouldnt try or was belly aching to get the ball, he would be relegated to the bench or the o-line.
Parents want to take him PLEASE DO< make them a pain in the rear for my competition. I do not talk to parents about positions or "touches" EVER. Play where we put you or play somewhere else. Football is a team game and we are going to do what's best for the team, including benching kids
This kid would have played bearcrawler for me and that's it until he changed his attitude.
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 21, 2009 15:07:13 GMT -6
Dave pretty much hit the nail on the head. This situation is 100x worse than it should have been. Far better to be a hardass early on and lay down the law - you'll either earn the kids' respect or run off the bad actors - then you can always lighten things up later on with kids knowing that you can turn the disciplinarian switch back on at any time. If you try to be chummy with the kids early, it is much more difficult to enforce discipline later (I'm not saying that's what you did here exactly, but that's just my overall philosophy towards this kind of thing).
At this point, I wouldn't have any more talks with either him or his parents - I would simply tell him how things are going to be: "You ARE going to play this position. You WILL demonstrate a good attitude and put forth 100% effort every play. You WILL NOT complain about not getting carries or anything else. This is not open to discussion or negotiation. If you do not do those things, you WILL NOT play - no questions asked, no discussion - you'll just go to the bench and stay there until you can demonstrate in practice that you will do what we require. Parents - we WILL NOT discuss this situation with you either - those are the terms under which your son can continue to play on this team - you can either support them and help us to help your child be a better teammate and a better person or you can turn in his equipment. Which will it be?"
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 21, 2009 20:14:03 GMT -6
Supposedly I was canned for being a hardass up front, parents supposedly complaining I was yelling at the kids too much. (I didn't yell any more than other coaches.) But I hadn't realized I'd only been enlisted to keep the bench warm over the summer, which the kids realized.
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Post by coachlacefield on Sept 22, 2009 7:57:01 GMT -6
Last night's game went much better. I told the kid that if we played him it would be minimal but his playing time depended heavily on his attitude while on the sidelines. He played roughly 5 snaps, 3 on offense, 2 on kick return. He actually cheered on his teammates and congratulated them on the sideline when they took a breather. I advised him last night that he's lost his right to start and that any playing time he receives will be determined by his attitude toward his teammates and coaches and at practice and games.
I'm nipping this before it gets any worse. With his bad attitude not in the game, the whole team played much better. We lost 12-6 but when you consider that this particular opponent averaged about 25-30 points last season, we played much tougher and much better team football.
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spurred
Sophomore Member
Posts: 101
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Post by spurred on Oct 11, 2009 20:43:17 GMT -6
I had a similar situation this year, and I told our kid that while he is a great athlete he is a poor teammate. I also told him that I was not afraid to play a kid that may not be as good of an athlete but tries and listens....
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Post by 19delta on Oct 11, 2009 23:56:55 GMT -6
Kids like that...the only thing that motivates them really is playing time. That's what you have to take away. We have a freshmen who is good enough to play on the varsity. Problem is that the kid is a little crazy and has been enabled his entire life because he is a great athlete.
He missed practice on Tuesday and claimed he was at tutoring. we found out later that he actually went to basketball open gym. Punishment was to sit the first half of the sophomore game.
It killed him, too. The team we were playing was not very good and he would have had about 250 yards rushing if he played. However, he supported his teammates on the sideline and when he finally got the opportunity to play in the second half (we were up big already), he responded with a 63-yard TD run.
Again, kids like that...because they have been "the man" their whole lives have to learn how to function as a part of the team. They have to understand that all 11 players function as part of a scheme and you can't have 1 guy doing his own thing.
As far as getting the plays crossed up...that is an easy fix. Call him over to the sideline after each down and YOU tell him the play. Then, you don't have to go through a middleman. Although, given what you have said about him, he doesn't sound like the kind of kid I would want playing QB for me.
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Post by coachrdg on Oct 12, 2009 7:47:56 GMT -6
First off I absolutely with what Coach Cisar has already addressed in that you have allowed this to be a problem. Maybe I missed something but why is he "banned" from defense? I do not agree with Spurred in telling a kid that he is a good athlete but a poor teammate, this is a kid after all and there are other ways to develop him into a team player. I would tell this kid that due to his natural athletic ability, speed and toughness that I need him to play Left Guard or Bear Crawler for me and that at these positions we are simply not getting the blocks or pressure that we need to be successful. I would relay to him that I am really counting on him to shore up these spots for me due to his tremendous talent. Notice I haven't pointed out any of his shortcomings as a teammate. I give him a chance to address that himself.
What happens when he does not want to play these positions? Simple, I let him know that when he is ready to play to let me know because we really need him. Minimal playing time does not apply here if a player refuses to take the field.
What happens when he plays the positions but plays poorly on purpose in hopes that I don't play him there? I replace him with another player and bring him to the sideline for a few plays as one of us coaches do what we are suppose to and coach him up as he rolls his eyes and shows no interest. Repeat this enough and he will start playing I promise.
What about the parents? How will I ever explain to them that their lil T.O is not playing the position he desires? In this case since you didn't cover this at the start of the season I would simply and briefly explain to them that I make the decisions on where the players play and with a smile I sell them the same line I sold lil T.O and that I need his "athletic" talent elsewhere to make some plays. END OF DISCUSSION.
I coach in the bad part of South Omaha near the projects and I get these kids every season, as a matter of fact I have a lil T.O on our team that has been a me first guy for nearly 3 seasons but finally after much patience and a never wavering stance on my philosophy the light has came on for him and he is now a team player. I never give up on a kid no matter what the situation but as Coach Cisar stated when a rule such as throwing equipment is violated then there is a penalty. Turn in your stuff.
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spurred
Sophomore Member
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Post by spurred on Oct 12, 2009 8:43:56 GMT -6
I haven't given up on him, in fact he has responded well to what I said. I understand these guys are kids but there is no reason to not hold them accountable for their action (to an extent). I was always the type of person that when I did something whether it was sports or anything else, I didn't want to know what I did right; I wanted to know what I did wrong so I could get better. I never yelled at him in a team environment, we talked in a one on one situation
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Post by coachrdg on Oct 12, 2009 8:55:02 GMT -6
I haven't given up on him, in fact he has responded well to what I said. I understand these guys are kids but there is no reason to not hold them accountable for their action (to an extent). I was always the type of person that when I did something whether it was sports or anything else, I didn't want to know what I did right; I wanted to know what I did wrong so I could get better. I never yelled at him in a team environment, we talked in a one on one situation I'm not saying your way is wrong but personally I haven't coached a kid yet that wants to hear what he did wrong more than he/she did right. I have coached many that respond well when praised for what they did right and corrected on what I need them to do to get better. We all have different coaching styles and whatever works for the best interest of the kid is a winner in my book. |
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neohio
Probationary Member
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Post by neohio on Dec 19, 2011 13:22:07 GMT -6
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Post by mattyg2787 on Dec 19, 2011 14:38:55 GMT -6
Sorry, I think I'm missing something about putting him on o line. Would you put him 2nd or 3rd string?
Also, of he is just going to play poorly there, that's gonna end up hurting your qb/rbs anyway as well as your whole team.
I never got punishing a kid by putting him in one of the 5 most important positions. Just remember the 4 horsemen and 7 mules story.....
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Post by coach4life on Dec 19, 2011 16:06:56 GMT -6
As an aside on the helmet tossing thing, I've got a cure that has been very effective. I usually use it once a year (the kids I'm working with now aren't ones to toss a hat out of anger but get careless and lazy by leaving it laying wherever, taking it off when they're not in on reps, etc.)
I have them hold the hat out, face mask towards them, arms fully extended with the helmet at head level. If their is a spare around I'll start reading the label on the back, if not I explain to them that the label on the back is there for a reason, it says this can be a dangerous game, they need to take care of their hat because it takes care of them, etc.
After about 30 seconds arms start dropping, elbows bending, the whimpering starts, etc. I'm a hard ass about it, keep the arms straight, helmet up, man up and deal with the fact that it is there to protect you and is not to be tossed or removed just because you feel like it.
Works every time...
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mw54
Probationary Member
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Post by mw54 on Dec 19, 2011 18:44:22 GMT -6
Sorry, I think I'm missing something about putting him on o line. Would you put him 2nd or 3rd string? Also, of he is just going to play poorly there, that's gonna end up hurting your qb/rbs anyway as well as your whole team. I never got punishing a kid by putting him in one of the 5 most important positions. Just remember the 4 horsemen and 7 mules story..... I agree with you mattyg. Punish a kid by butting him on o-line ? whats that saying about a your attitude towards the rest of the o-line ? What message would that send to the O-line ? O-line is far too important to just send the problem kids there. |
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Post by mattyg2787 on Dec 19, 2011 21:28:37 GMT -6
If that's his attitude I'm surprised his o line hasn't let him get cleaned up. We had an absolute jerk step into qb when our starter got injured. He only lasted like 5 plays until he got injured. After that, our third string stepped in and we managed to do much better.
Seriously, I know he's young but doesn't he realize the only reason he is able to walk off the field at the end of a game is because of the other 10 guys on the team.
Even passing legends would be nothing without their o lines.
It seriously pisses me off hearing about putting guys on o line as punishment. Most the kids that play there have been picked on anyway (the fat kids-myself included) and then your your making playing there seem like a punishment or a bad thing.
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Post by coachdoug on Dec 20, 2011 13:39:37 GMT -6
I get the idea of not letting a kid handle the ball if he has a bad attitude, but I agree with matty and others - the O-Line should be a unit with a lot of pride, not a sad place to put weak players or punish anyone. We go to great lengths to build up the O-Line as the most important unit on the team and instill a lot of pride in that unit. We want everyone on the team to want to play on the O-Line, or at least hold the players that are on the line in the highest of esteem.
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Post by jrk5150 on Dec 20, 2011 14:22:20 GMT -6
I agree.
Not to mention - so you sit a kid who's busting his hump in favor of Mr. Bad Attitude? Why punish the other kid?
If I can't put a kid at a certain position because of his ATTITUDE, then realistically, I'm going to try not to put him on the field at all. I'm not going to bump a kid out of his position so I can play a jerk.
He either sits for disciplinary purposes, or he goes into a MPP rotation at whatever position(s) I use for that purpose. I would not use him ANYWHERE that I needed a play made, I'd be afraid he'd just lay down on me. He'll have ample opportunity in practice and during his MPR's (if I have to) to show me something.
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Post by passtowin8 on Feb 13, 2012 19:06:08 GMT -6
A player like that would either 1. not be on my team to start with if he had that kind of attitude 2. he would not see much or any playing time on the season if he got that far. Dont want that or need it on my team. Too much work for one kid especially at the expense of the other kids having fun and winning the games.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 14, 2012 0:11:20 GMT -6
We had a first-rate pain in the rear last season, poisoned the whole team. Tomorrow he is getting his release papers. Addition by subtraction.
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Post by wybulldogs on Feb 14, 2012 10:11:36 GMT -6
2 years ago, I had a very good athlete, with a major attitude problem. He played WR, and was my backup QB. The thing holding him back at QB was that he didn't know the entire playbook, and wouldn't spend time learning it. When he did play QB, it was mostly option based plays, but he refused to read anything and would keep it. After a tough loss, he got off the bus and told me that I either start him at QB or RB, or he's quitting. I informed him that he could hand in his equipment tomorrow, because the player doesn't tell the coach what to do. He didn't get the point and handed in his equipment the next day.
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