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Post by brophy on Sept 18, 2009 9:16:23 GMT -6
I am curious to any proactive methods (no, seriously) in managing / dealing with kids on your team who are not moody, not athletically delusional, or just petulant...........but down right screw-loose bananas?  fortunately, we had one of these guys run himself off the team a few weeks ago (refused to play positions, would miss days on end of practice, show up at odd/all hours at the facility, etc). However, we have one on now, who likely won't quit, but seems to be headed to an emotional breaking point sooner than later. This kid is probably the top 5 of physically ungifted athletes on the roster. He experiences extreme mental blocks where he becomes near-incapacitated in performing physical activity (one day he was late for practice and had 100 pushups to do.....he struggled with 3 all the while looking like he was in excruciating pain and you would have thought he was being water-boarded for as much falling out he did.......). We rep and rep and rep footwork and tackling, and he has yet to gain any type of consistency or grasp (while all the other kids are progressing). In practice, he shys away from contact, will hide from playing time (reps), but does not socialize with any players. Now, all that is well and good, and I've had players who were the gratin of physical specimen, no biggie. Here is where it gets dicey..... From Spring ball to our 3rd game (last night), during games he becomes incensed with anger and pouts / sulks on the sideline. Now, there is no way in heck he is getting in the game and even after talking with him and coaxing him through his 'role' on the team and how you earn PT during games, he still carries on. Last night, we probably had the biggest win for our program in quite some time, in a TIGHT game, and even AFTER the game he is carrying on in a fuming mad tantrum. I believe this kid was observed writing in the dirt track around our field, "M-U-R-D-E-R". Now I would normally not be so alarmist about this and just chalk this up as a socially undeveloped kid (junior), but there is so much that does not "connect" with this kid Now, if he starts a fight or acts up, he will kick himself off, and he has been warned not to even think about starting this mess again, but I am curious if there is a better way to handle a kid like this? |
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Post by morris on Sept 18, 2009 10:00:08 GMT -6
This is sorta why I started the 504 thread. If the kid has a 504 and documents his behavior and such then his family can cause an issue.
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Post by brophy on Sept 18, 2009 10:15:35 GMT -6
arggh!
you and your blasted teacher-clinic-speak....
(sorry)
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Sept 18, 2009 10:23:23 GMT -6
Instead of kicking a kid off..we used to use suspensions....sometimes, indefinite!
Document the behavior, if it happens a gain, you get a one week suspension...practice and games...the next one, a 3 week! That way you never get in that grey area of kickin him off!
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diesal
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by diesal on Sept 18, 2009 11:49:05 GMT -6
One of the strongest kids in our school is not playing due to this. Kicked him off last year, and wanted him to figure some things out and try again this year. Couldn't keep his cool, and quit b/c he knew he wouldn't live up to my behavior expectations. I'm proud of him for realizing it. Practices run smoother w/o him there.
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Post by morris on Sept 18, 2009 12:53:42 GMT -6
We had a kid that was complete bat sh!t crazy. Had all sorts of problems getting him off the team even after a player contract and everything else. It is amazing the headaches parents can cause.
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Post by kboyd on Sept 18, 2009 13:49:18 GMT -6
That's a tough situation because first and foremost we need as developers of young men to make sure that we are doing the right things to help these kids grow. The problem is when we have a kid such as this who must be a distraction to the rest of the team and takes your attention away from working with the group as a whole.
Does this kid have a diagnosed condition and if so is he provided with an educational assistant through the school? If so, there may be certain ways of dealing with this kid that you could learn from his EA to get his participation interest up. Professionally, I am an employment counsellor for people with disabilities (any and all disabilities) and believe me when I say that there are different ways to deal with people with different disabilities. Good luck.
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Post by airman on Sept 18, 2009 14:21:01 GMT -6
I think any time a kid is a threat to himself or others he has to go.
If he cannot control himself he needs to get help.
I have had some screw loose kids and I know some screw loose teachers/coaches as well.
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Post by caneman on Sept 18, 2009 15:03:41 GMT -6
II believe this kid was observed writing in the dirt track around our field, "M-U-R-D-E-R". Now I would normally not be so alarmist about this and just chalk this up as a socially undeveloped kid (junior), but there is so much that does not "connect" with this kid Now, if he starts a fight or acts up, he will kick himself off, and he has been warned not to even think about starting this mess again, but I am curious if there is a better way to handle a kid like this? When you see stuff like that you need to report it to a school counselor, for the kid and for yourself... if you can tolerate it, it seems like the kid needs to be on the team and is probably the only positive thing hes got going in his life, see if you can be patient with him and work it out as best you can, you never know the positive value being on the team is having in his life now or later. When it comes down to it, this thing is about the kids first. |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Sept 18, 2009 15:06:54 GMT -6
So would you refer the kid for help? I think coaches (or at least the HC) should have the authority to document the behavior and go through the proper channels under the laws regarding special ed. Not only does that kid NOT need to be playing football, he needs serious psychiatric treatment/medication before he does something awful to ruin his own life and god knows who else's.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Sept 19, 2009 2:11:42 GMT -6
Bi-polar is nothing to mess around with. If he has it..#1..he needs to see a psychologist asap and get on some drugs. It can take a long long time to even find what works for a person. He probably should not be playing football while he is doing this either. The drugs when you try them out and get your prescriptions adjusted tend to make you lethargic. Depending on if he's manic or depressive (or a combo of both). I'm going to guess manic by your description. Like mentioned above..get his counselor involved and he/she will need to get the parents involved. I've dealt with people with Bi-polar(family member)..and if its untreated..it will only get worse..never better. Bi-polar does more damage to friends and family than it will ever do to the person with it. Make sure you don't just cut him lose if you can help it. Try to get him help. Worst thing you can do is kick him off the team and forget about him.
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 19, 2009 4:16:24 GMT -6
we have a kid who is crazy... plays OL and DL for me... well we decided that he no longer plays OL so he is only a DL now.
Anyway any other team in the country he is off the team... about 100 times over... but the HC likes him, and i like him away from the field too. Anyway the kid has serious issues and i just dont know who is gonna show up... I have found the only way to deal with him is to work him into the games early and often or he loses focus and goes in the tank (or wants to fight someone, including me lol ) And i can not yell at the kid, yelling can cause a number of reactions from him but none of them are good. I talk to him like i am speaking to a toddler, explain what he did wrong... but i dont say anything negative i have to be positive with him... so instead of dont do this! i say, do it this way...
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Post by bigdog2003 on Sept 19, 2009 12:47:45 GMT -6
We had a kid last year that was really crazy. We put him at DE and he made the other team crazy trying to figure out how to block him. He has had a hard life and lives in a boys home here in town. Great kid and he will do what we tell him, but every now and then, he losses it and goes crazy. I had to keep him from beating up one boy last year because they were picking on him for living in the boys home. He is on the eight grade team now, and they have him at WR, he caught a pass last week I heard. He yelled it at me as soon as we got off of the bus since we played further away and got back after them.
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Post by kylem56 on Sept 19, 2009 12:58:31 GMT -6
I have dealt with many people who have bi polar disorder. If the kid isn't on meds or seeing a therapist on a regular basis and he is a problem, you should look into getting him into seeing the school counseler because without any help he can be a ticking timebomb. Now I will say this too,I have had kids, and know people who once they were on the right medications and seeing a therapist, they were just as good as a "mentally healthy" kid for our team. Hell sometimes they made great defensive players  I wouldn't kick him off the team though since you are probaly saving his life giving him some sort of structure |
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Post by fbdoc on Sept 19, 2009 13:19:20 GMT -6
The courts are very clear on athletics being a privilege and NOT a right! Document every event. Contact parents and principals as needed. Don't allow one kid to ruin the team's experience.
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Post by phantom on Sept 19, 2009 21:33:57 GMT -6
We had a kid last year that was really crazy. We put him at DE and he made the other team crazy trying to figure out how to block him. He has had a hard life and lives in a boys home here in town. Great kid and he will do what we tell him, but every now and then, he losses it and goes crazy. I had to keep him from beating up one boy last year because they were picking on him for living in the boys home. He is on the eight grade team now, and they have him at WR, he caught a pass last week I heard. He yelled it at me as soon as we got off of the bus since we played further away and got back after them. Is fighting with a kid who makes fun of you for living in the boys home crazy? Crazier than making fun of the kid who lives in the boys home who you know to be a tough SOB? |
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Post by bigdog2003 on Sept 20, 2009 9:52:05 GMT -6
We had a kid last year that was really crazy. We put him at DE and he made the other team crazy trying to figure out how to block him. He has had a hard life and lives in a boys home here in town. Great kid and he will do what we tell him, but every now and then, he losses it and goes crazy. I had to keep him from beating up one boy last year because they were picking on him for living in the boys home. He is on the eight grade team now, and they have him at WR, he caught a pass last week I heard. He yelled it at me as soon as we got off of the bus since we played further away and got back after them. Is fighting with a kid who makes fun of you for living in the boys home crazy? Crazier than making fun of the kid who lives in the boys home who you know to be a tough SOB? Most kids wouldn't mess with him about it, but you know how some kids are. There was another kid that lived at the same home, and now he is playing D1 football. Kids mess with the kids from this home for some reason. Many of them come from broken homes and are just looking for someone to spend time with them. The one we had last year isn't so much crazy as just wanting to be accepted. He has some issues, but football has helped him a lot. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 20, 2009 9:55:21 GMT -6
You have to deal with those kids on almost a day-to-day basis...you have to discipline negative behaviors when they happen and then, after the punishment is served, you have to start with a blank slate.
We have a freshmen right not who is really a sick kid...desperately needs counseling and anger management and just isn't getting it. His mom is going through a really rough patch right now...ex-husband is calling up and threatening her and the kids....guy doesn't pay any child support...mom had to go and get an order of protection.
Mom has her own issues so we promised her that we aren't going to kick her son off the team no matter what.
Some of the things the kid has done:
1) Late to practice every day...LOVES to make a "big entrance"
2) Disrespects lower level coaches
3) Disrespects teammates
4) Caught throwing the ice out of the bus at cars on the way to a game
5) Lied to the sophomore coaches about riding the bus back from a game (he didn't)
6) Caught in the stands ridiculing the coaching staff and his teammates while wearing a freshmen jersey of the Catholic school across town that we were playing that night.
7) Crossing up plays on purpose so he gets the ball (kid is a stud athlete).
Basically, we take this kid day-to-day. Currently, he is indefinitately suspended for the ice-throwing incident and wearing the other team's jersey in the stands. He can practice, but until he apologizes to his teammates and can exhibit acceptable beahvior, he will not play another game for us this year.
The kid wants to get kicked off the team...he wants to be able to tell the sychopants who swing from his jock that the coaches screwed him and kicked him off. We aren't going to do that. If he isn't going to play, it's because he chooses to quit. We aren't going to give hiom an excuse.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2009 13:17:39 GMT -6
If he does anything that shows that he is a threat to himself or others, something serious needs to be done.. Talk to the school authorities and get the kid some help. Keep documenting the behavior and be prepared to remove the kid from the team, for the sake of himself and others...
I coached a freshman that was very heavily medicated; Emotionally Disturbed. He missed all kinds of practice,was nothing but an problem when he was there (very defiant, emotional outbursts). He didn't play for a few games, simply because he didn't have enough practice time. When he did get in, he played sparingly, simply because he was so disruptive at practice.. He was throwing temper tantrums every single day; you couldn't coach the kid at all without him getting violent.
He kept missing practice, didn't play at all because of the absences and dad tried to sue the district over it. It never even made it past the ADs office; he had literally missed half of the practices...We told the kid that if he was going to remain on the team that he had to make it to practice and clean up the behavior. He quit and then ended up in the alternative HS, where he raised holyhell for 4 years.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2009 13:21:54 GMT -6
Let me also say that I subbed in in a kindergarten class with a kid who was CLEARLY autistic.... He needed constant sensory stimulation to function; when he was going ape-{censored}, he was just wandering around the room touching stuff, feeling textures...The only way you could keep him calm was to put him in a rocking chair and let him rock back and forth..
Yeah, they had him diagnosed as ADD.....
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Post by phantom on Sept 20, 2009 13:30:36 GMT -6
Is fighting with a kid who makes fun of you for living in the boys home crazy? Crazier than making fun of the kid who lives in the boys home who you know to be a tough SOB? Most kids wouldn't mess with him about it, but you know how some kids are. There was another kid that lived at the same home, and now he is playing D1 football. Kids mess with the kids from this home for some reason. Many of them come from broken homes and are just looking for someone to spend time with them. The one we had last year isn't so much crazy as just wanting to be accepted. He has some issues, but football has helped him a lot. You need to deal with it. The kids need to known that messing with these kids is not acceptable. |
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Post by bigdog2003 on Sept 20, 2009 13:51:45 GMT -6
Most kids wouldn't mess with him about it, but you know how some kids are. There was another kid that lived at the same home, and now he is playing D1 football. Kids mess with the kids from this home for some reason. Many of them come from broken homes and are just looking for someone to spend time with them. The one we had last year isn't so much crazy as just wanting to be accepted. He has some issues, but football has helped him a lot. You need to deal with it. The kids need to known that messing with these kids is not acceptable. We did, they don't do it anymore as far as we know. We haven't had any problems so far this year. |
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Post by robinhood on Sept 22, 2009 10:23:20 GMT -6
One of my sons is bipolar. He was one of the best players I've ever coached - talent and attitude. There are varying degrees of this condition. You can't lump them all together. Somebody in your school - principal, asst. principal, or spec. ed. teachers - have information on the player, his condition, his meds, and the accommodations he needs to be successful. You shouldn't have trouble accessing this info if you are a service provider.
Keep in mind that being bipolar and psychotic are NOT the same thing.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Sept 22, 2009 10:55:02 GMT -6
One of my sons is bipolar. He was one of the best players I've ever coached - talent and attitude. There are varying degrees of this condition. You can't lump them all together. Somebody in your school - principal, asst. principal, or spec. ed. teachers - have information on the player, his condition, his meds, and the accommodations he needs to be successful. You shouldn't have trouble accessing this info if you are a service provider. Keep in mind that being bipolar and psychotic are NOT the same thing. Good point. Manic/Mixed states may look "crazy" to someone who doesn't know much about it, but they aren't psychotic. I have several friends who are bipolar. One is a decorated former Army Ranger who served tours in Afghanistan and Iraq and served in the same regiment as Pat Tillman. It's a very complex disorder that can take years to treat effectively, if ever. Even then, they aren't necessarily dangers to others because of it. This kid sounds like he's got serious issues. If so--especially if that M-U-R-D-E-R story is true-- this needs to be addressed now before he does something REALLY bad. Document the behavior and check with your HC or the admin at your school and see about referring him for a special ed. evaluation. I believe that coaches have, at least your HC has, have that authority. At the least it'll get things rolling for treatment. Even if he's not "psychotic" you'll have still done him a huge favor. A lof of times, like in the case of Cho at Va Tech or the Columbine shooters, people observed the school-shooters-to-be doing disturbing things that made them cringe but for whatever reason nobody pushed until the kid got real help. Please don't let that happen here, Brophy. Better to be an alarmist and blow this out of proportion now than to wind up watching this kid blowing somebody's head off later. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 22, 2009 11:32:09 GMT -6
to be clear, the term "bipolar" was used to help ellucidate the manic symptoms this player exhibits. He has not been diagnosed, and likely won't be seeing any professional clinician (just as a general practice of the family/environment) - though, you would probably start with his mother.
Now, we sat down with this kid last Friday, to see what his issues are....
he feels that (last week) he was lied to by the coaches, who promised him playing time.
Now, that is a semi-legitimate rationale (though certainly no excuse for pitching a fit on the sideline,especially when you are winning a tight ball game), although NO ONE promises playing time, least of all, ME (I am his position coach). While that is an excuse (for this game), it should be noted that he has done this the 2 games prior as well as a Spring game.
Now, it isn't that I don't like this kid, I actually do, and spend plenty of time coaxing him, reassuring him, hoping he figures this stuff out, but it is difficult to control what a person wants to hear and what they work themselves into believing.
It has been explained to the kid that the guys he is attempting to steal playing time from are kids who have been in the program for 4 years, been in the weight room, and attended 7on7....neither of which are true of this player. This player is 5'6", 120 lbs junior....so even if he DOES figure out the technique, there is no way he'll see a varsity field
I continue to emphasize his participation in JV games (though there are probably 3-4 other guys at his spot who also need reps) as a way to prove his competency
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I wouldn't kick him off the team though since you are probaly saving his life giving him some sort of structure
