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Post by charger109 on Sept 16, 2009 21:24:11 GMT -6
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Post by coachbrown3 on Sept 17, 2009 6:26:17 GMT -6
This is always tough in HS. Sometimes you just face a team/program that's just superior/inferior.
How do you stop a kid who may never score a varsity TD from running it in when the score is 63-0? You do your best to run the ball, but those running backs are taught (hopefully) to run hard.
Maybe there should be some way to stop totaling the points if a team is being shut out (maybe 50?), but still give kids credit for their statistics. Like I said, this is tough...
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Post by olinecoach61 on Sept 17, 2009 6:35:02 GMT -6
In CT the HC would be suspended next week automatically. You beat anyone by more than 49 and its automatic. Not saying I like it, but when we tell a kid not to score or we'll lose our HC, they don't score. We've had to just run dive for 3 or 4 series in the past.
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Post by blb on Sept 17, 2009 7:07:18 GMT -6
I have been on both sides of mercy rule games.
CT rule goes too far. You can't legislate competitiveness. Maybe school administrators should be suspended for scheduling games between programs that aren't similar.
Game is over to us when one team ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter or running clock.
Your only obligation is to substitute. I think you keep running your offense - have to do what's best for your team. It's not your job to stop your offense.
Bobby Bowden (West Virginia) kicked Lou Holtz's (William and Mary) azz one time and as Holtz tells it, he thought Bowden ran it up a little.
His buddy Bowden told him, "Lou, there ain't but one team you can coach and that's yours. If you don't like it, coach better, get better players, or change the schedule."
Nick Hyder, the highly successful Valdosta (GA) HS coach would say, "It's not our fault you've got a lousy football team."
Football, like life, can be hard. Deal with it like a man.
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Post by brophy on Sept 17, 2009 7:51:44 GMT -6
AWESOME, BLB........that is perfect.
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Post by coachdawhip on Sept 17, 2009 8:00:46 GMT -6
You can always tell the difference between when a team is running up the score and when they aren't
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Post by bigsandwich on Sept 17, 2009 8:12:44 GMT -6
In my days as a soccer coach, we got beat 14-0. I got very upset. What was I gonna do punch the other coach and loose my job?
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ballcoach20
Freshmen Member
Throw it to the flat until you can't.
Posts: 30
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Post by ballcoach20 on Sept 17, 2009 8:24:44 GMT -6
I am a young coach and I have been on both sides as a player and coach. You just have to instill in your kids to play hard and keep your head whether they are winning or losing.
You can't say it is running up the score when your offense, whether it is Varsity, JV or Freshman starts with short field the entire game. You still have to be able to run your offense and get your younger kids ready. You can't control the losing team if they keep turning the ball over either.
I would never tell one of my players to give less than the best. EVER!
My question is what if you run a spread offense and throw the ball 80% of the time. How do you get your back-ups some reps if you have to run the ball the rest of the game.
Look at Nebraska, when they ran the triple-option all over people...did they start throwing the ball to keep from running the score up?
When I was in college, there was an area HS coach that would punt the ball on third down when the score got out of hand early in the second half. I don't agree with that. I think it waste reps for your younger kids to run the offense.
If your on the losing end, you have to keep your kids up and stay positive as possible. Than you need to re-evalute your schedule for next year and make changes if you don't like it, or just get better. GO TO CLINCS!
JMO
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Post by coachks on Sept 17, 2009 8:58:26 GMT -6
If the other coach doesn't like it, he can pull his team off the field at 50 points. Nobody says he can't forfeit. As long as he wants to play, then we're going to play.
Once kids start worrying about things other than their assignment, injuries happen. You can't have QBs second guessing their reads, you can't have RBs concerned where to stop running, once the focus is off what they practice they slow down and their subject to injury.
Further, our backups practice HARD, in fact, they might do more work becaue of scout teams. There is no way in hell I'm telling those kids to take it easy because your team sucks.
We aren't going to schedule a team that shouldn't be able to stay on the field. We aren't playing startups, 70 kid private schools or any other school that isn't similar in numbers than us. If the other coach can't get his talent pool to prevent an 83-0 loss then maybe he should look in the mirror instead of at us.
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 17, 2009 9:03:19 GMT -6
BLB nails it. Like I said in the other thread about this game, get better.
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Post by CoachCP on Sept 17, 2009 9:04:00 GMT -6
I'm our JV head coach and we lost 74 - 0 in our first game. They only shady thing I thought was when they went after a punt on 4th down near our endzone, besides that, our guys were simply awful at the time. Its a program wide problem, just don't have the numbers, and we have to use the JV to practice against, and at that point, we got no practice time besides 1 hour on a thursday and pregame for about an hour. Had to cover special teams (always difficult with JV guys) during this time as well.
It was rough to say the least, but I knew we didn't have the dogs nor did we have any practice time. Its better now, since we get 4 days a week with the guys for at least 40 minutes, which helps significantly.
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Post by Coach JR on Sept 17, 2009 9:15:24 GMT -6
In CT the HC would be suspended next week automatically. You beat anyone by more than 49 and its automatic. That's ridiculous! |
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Post by Coach JR on Sept 17, 2009 9:18:52 GMT -6
I have been on both sides of mercy rule games. CT rule goes too far. You can't legislate competitiveness. Maybe school administrators should be suspended for scheduling games between programs that aren't similar. Game is over to us when one team ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter or running clock. Your only obligation is to substitute. I think you keep running your offense - have to do what's best for your team. It's not your job to stop your offense. Bobby Bowden (West Virginia) kicked Lou Holtz's (William and Mary) azz one time and as Holtz tells it, he thought Bowden ran it up a little. His buddy Bowden told him, "Lou, there ain't but one team you can coach and that's yours. If you don't like it, coach better, get better players, or change the schedule." Nick Hyder, the highly successful Valdosta (GA) HS coach would say, "It's not our fault you've got a lousy football team." Football, like life, can be hard. Deal with it like a man. Perzactly! If a coach played his starters all the way in a blowout game, and kept making full effort to score, then that's one thing. Beyond that, the only moral obligation is to sub your players. It's the other team's job to stop you. |
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Post by julien on Sept 17, 2009 9:46:09 GMT -6
In week one a local team beat a team 80-14. Sure am happy we don't live in the "sportsmanship"...aka...soccer syndrome world. Not a word has been said about it. Sorry dcohio, but here in France I've never heard a soccer or rugby coach complaining about a team running up the score... The concept of "running up the score" is really strange... Like other on this board I've been on both side as a player and as a coach... As a coach I've almost been punched by opponent DC because my kids hurry up to score one more before the end of the game (we were up 30something - 7)... I had let my first year qb call the plays on the last drive... |
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Post by k on Sept 17, 2009 10:09:56 GMT -6
Sure am happy we don't live in the "sportsmanship"...aka...soccer syndrome world. Well if sportsmanship is wrong in ohio I'm really glad I don't live there as my kids would have to play soccer instead of playing for a coach who thinks sportsmanship is wrong. |
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Post by coach31 on Sept 17, 2009 10:25:57 GMT -6
I have no problem with sportsmanship. But does the losing team have the same responsibility? I hate having my JVs and below on the field against someone's studs. Just worries me
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Post by bulldogoption on Sept 17, 2009 10:28:27 GMT -6
If the coach subbed late and his subs still scores, what else can you do?
I think the bigger issue is that in football, I am starting to see A LOT of lopsided scores. The game is changing and a wedge seems to be driving itself between the haves and have nots. The game has gotten more physical, the play has gotten faster, the schemes have gotten more complicated.
Maybe its no different than it was 30 years ago, but it sure seems like there are less and less close games these days in football.
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Post by coachks on Sept 17, 2009 10:31:34 GMT -6
In week one a local team beat a team 80-14. Sure am happy we don't live in the "sportsmanship"...aka...soccer syndrome world. Not a word has been said about it. Sorry dcohio, but here in France I've never heard a soccer or rugby coach complaining about a team running up the score... The concept of "running up the score" is really strange... Like other on this board I've been on both side as a player and as a coach... As a coach I've almost been punched by opponent DC because my kids hurry up to score one more before the end of the game (we were up 30something - 7)... I had let my first year qb call the plays on the last drive... I think he was referring more to the USA youth soccer programs. Most kids from the ages of 5-10 or what not play rec league soccer with moms and dads as volunteer coaches. Everyone gets the same trophy, everyone gets the same playing time and everyone is very careful to make sure everyone else feels really good about the game no matter what happens. Not a terrible thing in and of itself, but it's created a situation where everyone is overly sensitive to making other players feel bad. Unfortuately it's permiated itself to the point where now middle school programs are basically glorified youth programs. Now people are expecting high school athletics to be on the same path. Who is expecting this? Those moms who's kids played soccer when they were 7 and remembered how much fun the kids had. It doesn't matter that high schoolers aren't 7, but it sure is fun to include everyone isn't it. The youth dad who volunteered, had a decent team, and can't understand how he can win and play everyone but that stupid coach won't play everyone. Ect. ect. In short, youth programs (and soccer is the poster child) have really blurred the line between winning and losing, and it's working it's way up. |
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Post by coachks on Sept 17, 2009 10:39:08 GMT -6
If the coach subbed late and his subs still scores, what else can you do? I think the bigger issue is that in football, I am starting to see A LOT of lopsided scores. The game is changing and a wedge seems to be driving itself between the haves and have nots. The game has gotten more physical, the play has gotten faster, the schemes have gotten more complicated. Maybe its no different than it was 30 years ago, but it sure seems like there are less and less close games these days in football. Could very well be true. I wasn't around to see it, but I can imagine that with the evolution of weight training, the evolution of schemes and the development of the internet you're seeing truly dedicated coaches really outpace the guys who show up August 1st. It must be quite a shock for guys who've been running the same offense and defense for 25 years and not really keeping up with trends to come out one day and see a team running Empty and a 3-3 stack and they haven't change anything. |
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Post by coachguy83 on Sept 17, 2009 10:41:22 GMT -6
It sucks being spanked that badly, I'm not going to lie I've been there as a player a few times. However if you pull your starters, give every guy on the field plenty of playing time, and not pass or run trick plays; you are doing things the right way. I don't think I'd ever tell my kids to not play hard or drive down to the one and take a knee. It's varsity football and sh!t happens.
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Post by airraid77 on Sept 17, 2009 11:11:48 GMT -6
I was referring to the growing trend in the USA, where the 2 teams who are playing understand, the hows and whys of a lopsided score...it's everyone else who did not see the game, has no idea of what happened and how it all happened sitting back in their rocking chair blindly stating "that ain't right, something should be done...that coach is out of control." Sportsmanship is fine, I have no problem with that but that occurs between the 2 opponents. I've coached a team, and we were accused of running up the score...final score was 21-0. We were running it up because we were up 14-0 with 2:00 left, had to punt inside our own 25 and we hadn't gotten a punt snap the previous 2 tries so we went for it...our kid took it the distance making the score 21-0...and their coach was livid after the game. Sportsmanship is a relative term, it is relative to WHOM you are playing, not anyone in the media, not everyone reading the go**amn paper. All that story does is stir those "tree huggin" "everyone wins" "self esteem is most important" type of people up and give them a cause to fight for, when I'm quite sure the team who got beat knows exactly how and why it happened and probably weren't that upset about it. DC, the good news is, the Silent majority has been awaken....and PC or political correctness is in trouble in country. |
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Post by formrbcbuc on Sept 17, 2009 11:14:43 GMT -6
I am a young coach and if we were up really big on a team (in the 40s points wise and they were uder 14 ) I would paly mainly backups if were were late 3rd or in the 4th quarter. unless we had breakaway plays I think you get over 50 points I would usually opt for field goals or punting on 3rd and long. Granted this is my view as player having been involved on both sides blowout games and as a young coach. you contiune to run your offense and if points happen then it is out of your hand but I don't think it is necessary to try and score a touchdown while being up big late in the 4th quarter.
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Post by phantom on Sept 17, 2009 11:21:35 GMT -6
I am a young coach and if we were up really big on a team (in the 40s points wise and they were uder 14 ) I would paly mainly backups if were were late 3rd or in the 4th quarter. unless we had breakaway plays I think you get over 50 points I would usually opt for field goals or punting on 3rd and long. Granted this is my view as player having been involved on both sides blowout games and as a young coach. you contiune to run your offense and if points happen then it is out of your hand but I don't think it is necessary to try and score a touchdown while being up big late in the 4th quarter. If somebody was up big on us and started punting on 3rd down I'd feel worse than in they scored. |
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Post by Coach JR on Sept 17, 2009 11:46:58 GMT -6
I am a young coach and if we were up really big on a team (in the 40s points wise and they were uder 14 ) I would paly mainly backups if were were late 3rd or in the 4th quarter. unless we had breakaway plays I think you get over 50 points I would usually opt for field goals or punting on 3rd and long. Granted this is my view as player having been involved on both sides blowout games and as a young coach. you contiune to run your offense and if points happen then it is out of your hand but I don't think it is necessary to try and score a touchdown while being up big late in the 4th quarter. If somebody was up big on us and started punting on 3rd down I'd feel worse than in they scored. Agree! |
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Post by blb on Sept 17, 2009 11:47:02 GMT -6
I am a young coach and if we were up really big on a team (in the 40s points wise and they were uder 14 ) I would paly mainly backups if were were late 3rd or in the 4th quarter. unless we had breakaway plays I think you get over 50 points I would usually opt for field goals or punting on 3rd and long. Granted this is my view as player having been involved on both sides blowout games and as a young coach. you contiune to run your offense and if points happen then it is out of your hand but I don't think it is necessary to try and score a touchdown while being up big late in the 4th quarter. If somebody was up big on us and started punting on 3rd down I'd feel worse than in they scored. ...or taking a knee early. And that does the substitutes who are playing no good for game experience. Play the game out the way it is supposed to be. I'm not even crazy about mercy rule - ahead or behind, cuts reps short for backups. |
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Post by blb on Sept 17, 2009 12:02:49 GMT -6
Other side of this issue, someone already alluded to, is the coach who doesn't surrender - when the game is lost leaves his starters in to build up their offensive stats, blitzes your substitute offense into the ground, onside kicks down three-plus TDs with a minute left, etc.
Doesn't do right by HIS backups (unless it's a numbers deal) and I think it's a little unethical if not unsportsmanlike too.
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Post by fatkicker on Sept 17, 2009 12:14:44 GMT -6
i was calling jv offense during a lopsided high school game.......we were up 40 to 6 with about 5 minutes to go.....we throw the entire 9th grade group in there for some mop up time....
i was trying to call leads and dives with our 9th grade/jv...head coach said burn the clock.........their senior starters were still in the game and killing us......1st and 10......2nd and 13........3rd and 16......
on 3rd and 16 from our own 15 or so....i called the half back pass (with the header's permission).........the receiver that caught the ball and ran the distance was about 5' 4" and 110 pounds.........the tailback was barely bigger............you talkin about a pissed off coach on the other side......
so that brings up another thought.....
what if you try to sub to burn the clock and the other coach doesn't do the same?...........do you put your starters back in and try to hang a hunnert on 'em? it is tempting....
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Post by Coach Geordie on Sept 17, 2009 12:15:00 GMT -6
I've always said that if I get in a game where my back ups are still scoring and that I'm getting reps fpr all my players I'll continue to run the score up on anybody. To me running up the score is not about play calling but personel.
One day I may need my second team players to do something they have never done before and I'm not going to regret getting them experience.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 17, 2009 12:34:42 GMT -6
1. He pulled the starters at half. 2. He ran the heck out of the ball. 3. The clock was running in the second half. The opposite question should be posed; how did the other coach let the score get out of hand? If you can't coach your kids up better than that, then you shouldn't be involved in the profession. No way is a team EVER 83 points better than someone else. We had a similiar situation 2 weeks back at the soph level. Beat a tean 60-0 with the second/third team playing THE ENTIRE GAME. Did I change what I ran on defense?? H-ll no! I stuck with the game plan and came with zonbe blitz pressure every other down. They were throwing the ball down the field every down; I figured it was better to get a sack and keep the clock running, rather than watch the ball hit the ground three times in a row and stop it.  Now, our OC ran the ball the whole game and we still scored 60 points. When I've been an OC, I don't throw the ball in those situations either, but as a DC, I keep doing what I'm doing. My job is to get you off of the field, that's what I an going to do. If running straight C2 does that, then fine, I'll do it. But, it's still their job to coach their kids, stop us on offense and move the ball. I've been on the oppsite end of butt-whoopings like that as well and I never b-tched. I looked at the score and said to myself "d-mn, I'd better start coaching better." |
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Post by struceri on Sept 17, 2009 12:40:40 GMT -6
what if the team that is down big who onside kicks after a score? what do you do then? This has always ticked our coaching staff if we are up big with 2's or 3's in and the team getting beat tries an onside.
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