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Post by ducej11 on Sept 16, 2009 6:39:17 GMT -6
Ok, so here is the deal. I joined the staff of a youth team about a week ago. I was brought on to work with the backs and receivers. They had one game before me and lost 34-7 and I had on walk through practice with them the day before a game and then we lost the next day 41-6. The head coach is running the spread offense and 9 different formations with 10-12 year olds. After the game, I sent this email to the coach....
"I wanted to offer my assessment and what we can do on Thursday to get back on track. I think a lot of the backs and receivers are confused with where they are supposed to be. So I think we should really work on the formations and route running on Thursday. I would like to break out into individual drills where your son can take the offensive line and work on run blocking and pass blocking fundamentals and we could take the backs and receivers. I would like to start out by having Aaron warm up by having each receiver run every route twice (and really working on proper route running and timing). With him throwing and the backup qb throwing also simultaneously, 2 lines of receivers switching after running their route. That way we can work on the quarterbacks throwing, the receivers route running, and get the backup qb some reps throwing it as well, all at the same time. This should only take about 20 minutes as long as we make sure people are hustling. Then, I think we should make sure everyone knows all the formations. Just have them lineup in each formation. We could substitute the people in and out to prevent confusion and get them used to it. There are 9 formations and they are really not that hard to know. I have them all down already just from practice and reviewing the playbook. Just having them get in and out of formations should not take that long. We can have them huddle up and then hustle to the line and get in the right spot and then huddle up again and call a different formation. I think will go a long way on Sunday. I think it will take some pressure off of Aaron as well because it seems like he always has to move people to their spots. This I would think so only take about 20 minutes at most and we should be able to run through each formation quite a few times. If we need to take a little more time on this, then we should. Then, I would like to call the center over and work on the execution, this is the most important part. We can spend an hour or more going through the plays. Making sure we are taking the hand offs correctly and just running through the plays over and over again. The offensive execution just was not there. We should give special attention to number 2 and 9. I am sorry, I don’t quite know their names yet since they are still very new to this all. The Jet is a play that we can really get some yards on but the player running the Jet is not running at full speed which means that we are losing the advantage that the play creates. I know we have the talent and I love the offense and know that we can bring it out. What do you think about this game plan for Thursday? I would also like to spend some time with you a few minutes after practice working out our pregame warm up routine. It looked like some of the offensive lineman were throwing around the football while I was working with Aaron and having him warm up his arm. They should be working on their technique and not their throwing arm. "
And I just got this back from him...
"I read your email several times and I let the coaches and President read it, and it is our feelings that your services will not be needed for the Chargers. My asst. coaches and I feel its just not a good fit, sorry but that's how we feel good luck to you in your coaching search."
Did I disrespect him in someway? I don't see what I did wrong and was hoping that I could get some feed back from you.
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Post by gacoach on Sept 16, 2009 6:48:06 GMT -6
Well, to answer your question, it appears that he perceived it as "disrespect". Instead of an email you should have approached him with a few of your suggestions because it sounds like you disagreed with everything they've been doing and he took that as personal. You could have eased into an alternative practice schedule rather than a wholesale change this way. Since you just joined the team it sounds like you were trying to take his job.
As a high school coach I would not want one of my assistants to take this approach. Why, he obviously didn't think what we were doing was correct. A one on one is the better approach.
Is the situation irreparable?
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Post by ducej11 on Sept 16, 2009 6:51:27 GMT -6
Well, I also has some disagreements on game day with them screaming and yelling at the kids. I didn't say anything to them. But I had a feeling I would have if it had continued. I dont think blaming 10-12 year old kids by screaming and calling them out in front of their families the right approach.
I think this is a valuable lesson to me that not everyone is willing to take suggestions the way I would. I guess I could have worded it better and I feel like it must have came across wrong, I didn't expect him to put into place everything I said, I was just offering what I saw. Oh, well. Lesson Learned I guess.
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Post by whitebarb on Sept 16, 2009 6:57:41 GMT -6
As a high school coach I would not want one of my assistants to take this approach. Why, he obviously didn't think what we were doing was correct. A one on one is the better approach.quote] Look at the scores, as a coach I would want other coaches to put out ideas on how to get back on track. Some guys need to put their pride aside and do whats best for the team.
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Post by 1ispread on Sept 16, 2009 6:57:43 GMT -6
Yea, you direspected in several ways, maybe you were justified in questioning him but still the same you disrespected him. The main thing is whether he was right or you were right, he is the boss and you always lose the arguement with the boss whether you are right or wrong.
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Post by gacoach on Sept 16, 2009 7:00:13 GMT -6
As a high school coach I would not want one of my assistants to take this approach. Why, he obviously didn't think what we were doing was correct. A one on one is the better approach.quote] Look at the scores, as a coach I would want other coaches to put out ideas on how to get back on track. Some guys need to put their pride aside and do whats best for the team. I agree, the scores indicated that there needed to be a change, but he's new. The coach obviously can't put his pride aside. It seems he thinks what he is doing is best for the team.
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Post by coachbrown3 on Sept 16, 2009 7:10:04 GMT -6
It sounds like it may not have been a good fit you anyway if you had reservations on how they handled the kids on gameday.
Part of coaching should be understanding when a situation just doesn't mesh with your beliefs and/or philosophy. Learn from it and make sure next time you are working with people who share a similar belief system as you.
If I were the head coach, I would have maybe spoken with you in person and explained why I took offense though before simply letting you go.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Sept 16, 2009 7:12:59 GMT -6
Tough spot, being the new guy, if you want to keep your job, keep your mouth shut and eyes open. Once they trust you, you can start to make suggestions like the ones above.
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Post by brophy on Sept 16, 2009 7:20:33 GMT -6
better off for you ducej11. Just like relationships, not everything (staff) is a perfect fit and we just have to leave it at that.
At least you can find a gig that better suits you. This should be a good thing
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Post by ducej11 on Sept 16, 2009 7:58:18 GMT -6
Yea, you direspected in several ways, maybe you were justified in questioning him but still the same you disrespected him. The main thing is whether he was right or you were right, he is the boss and you always lose the arguement with the boss whether you are right or wrong. I think I was a little nieve. I guess I didn't intent to question him more than just give an opinion, but I can see where it certainly looked like that.
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Post by tiger46 on Sept 16, 2009 8:12:07 GMT -6
deucej11,
I'm a youth coach, also. In my limited experience (5 seasons), there are very few youth coaches that I have met that are smart enough to admit that they don't know something and big enough to accept asked for criticism. And, I've never met one big enough to accept unasked for criticism and make changes. And, being that you were new to the staff, the HC could easily have mistaken your intentions by suggesting how to improve his offense. I consider myself to be an open-minded HC. But, if someone that I just brought onto the staff started telling me how to run my practices, etc...it would have thrown up a red flag even with me.
That being said, I think your post was fine. You were brought on to work with backs & WR's. It was your job to let the HC know what areas your group needed to improve and how you thought that you could get the job done. You didn't tell him to scrap the spread or, that his way of practicing sucked. You did a nice job of offering up drills to achieve improvement on what they were already doing.
As a youth HC the one thing that I hate to hear from my AC's- especially on game day is, "That play ain't working, coach. We need to call something else." We don't have the luxury of coaches in booths. My AC's have specific things to watch for to help with play-calling, as do I. "That ain't working" with no elaboration on what he saw that was causing a problem, etc... isn't worth crap to me.
As for practice, if an AC thinks he has a way to improve what we already do, I want them to tell me. And, if he wants to change what we do, he definitely needs to come talk to me. Obviously, no HC wants an AC that continuously questions what the HC does. And, after the HC has made a decision that should be the end of it. It's now that AC's job to get done whatever the HC wants done.
Examples: Had an AC go behind my back and change the way our DB's covered WR's before our play-off game. His changes were stupid beyond all measure. Opposing team scored two TD's from simple pass plays. I was less than happy with him. Had it not been a play-off loss and the end of our season, I'd probably have fired him. However, had he came to me and offered his suggestions, I'd have not said, "That's stupid". I'd have explained to him why we do things the way that we do and, what problem areas I see in what he wanted.
Another AC had a better way of improving the way I taught log blocking and kick-out blocks. He came to me with his suggestions and explained why he thought his way was better. I gave him the go ahead and his way was better. I really appreciated the results.
Seems to me that your better off without them.
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Post by kylem56 on Sept 16, 2009 8:15:28 GMT -6
I would have approached him in person or at least called him before I sent an email. Reason being, you never know how the person on the other end will interept what you type. Theres nothing wrong with having opinions and offering constructive critcism. If the HC wants the best for his team, he would want to listen to his assistants opinions. He may not use them or like them but a HC is only as good as his assistants and players. Everything happens for a reason though. Just keep learning and working hard, itll pay off somewhere
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Post by 1ispread on Sept 16, 2009 8:17:21 GMT -6
duce, one thing I have found out over the years, the more incompetent the person, the more sensitive they are to suggestions to improve. Like Brophy said you are better off. Good luck in finding the gig the fits you.
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Post by ducej11 on Sept 16, 2009 8:18:42 GMT -6
deucej11, I'm a youth coach, also. In my limited experience (5 seasons), there are very few youth coaches that I have met that are smart enough to admit that they don't know something and big enough to accept asked for criticism. And, I've never met one big enough to accept unasked for criticism and make changes. And, being that you were new to the staff, the HC could easily have mistaken your intentions by suggesting how to improve his offense. I consider myself to be an open-minded HC. But, if someone that I just brought onto the staff started telling me how to run my practices, etc...it would have thrown up a red flag even with me. That being said, I think your post was fine. You were brought on to work with backs & WR's. It was your job to let the HC know what areas your group needed to improve and how you thought that you could get the job done. You didn't tell him to scrap the spread or, that his way of practicing sucked. You did a nice job of offering up drills to achieve improvement on what they were already doing. As a youth HC the one thing that I hate to hear from my AC's- especially on game day is, "That play ain't working, coach. We need to call something else." We don't have the luxury of coaches in booths. My AC's have specific things to watch for to help with play-calling, as do I. "That ain't working" with no elaboration on what he saw that was causing a problem, etc... isn't worth crap to me. As for practice, if an AC thinks he has a way to improve what we already do, I want them to tell me. And, if he wants to change what we do, he definitely needs to come talk to me. Obviously, no HC wants an AC that continuously questions what the HC does. And, after the HC has made a decision that should be the end of it. It's now that AC's job to get done whatever the HC wants done. Examples: Had an AC go behind my back and change the way our DB's covered WR's before our play-off game. His changes were stupid beyond all measure. Opposing team scored two TD's from simple pass plays. I was less than happy with him. Had it not been a play-off loss and the end of our season, I'd probably have fired him. However, had he came to me and offered his suggestions, I'd have not said, "That's stupid". I'd have explained to him why we do things the way that we do and, what problem areas I see in what he wanted. Another AC had a better way of improving the way I taught log blocking and kick-out blocks. He came to me with his suggestions and explained why he thought his way was better. I gave him the go ahead and his way was better. I really appreciated the results. Seems to me that your better off without them. Thank you for this note. And I think the reason I was most shocked was because I actually told him I loved the offense and was excited about it.
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 16, 2009 10:59:29 GMT -6
Coach: In general, I thought there was nothing wrong with your suggestions or your approach (although I probably would have gone a little slower - maybe just offer up one suggestion at a time rather than throw all your ideas at him at once). When you're new it's also always a good idea to ask permission before offering up suggestions (e.g. "Hey coach, I know I'm pretty new around here, but you did bring me in to work with the backs & receivers - I think I have some pretty good ideas on how to improve their performance. Would you like to hear them?"). But, I think the one big mistake you made was to send an email instead of just talking to the HC. You should never criticize in writing (and make no mistake - any time you suggest changes, it's going to be taken as criticism). When you write your criticisms/suggestions, several dynamics are at play, none of which work in your favor: - Missing non-verbal cues - most people are aware of this - you can't convey tone, gestures, etc in an email, so it is very easy for benign comments to come across as sarcasm or otherwise be misinterpreted.
- You get no feedback from the reader. If you talked to him, he might have cut you off relatively early and given his explanation for why they practice they way they do and that he's not interested in changing. But, when he reads your written email, in his mind he's making those comments, so when you continue on in writing it comes across on a subconcious level as insuborination (kind of like, "I already told him we're not changing the practice schedule, why is he still going on with this crap??"). I know it sounds pretty silly, but I've seen this dynamic at work numerous times.
- It allows the reader to question your motives. Whenever someone sends me something in writing that they could have easily discussed with me in person - even if I know and trust the person - it sends up red flags and causes me to ask a bunch of questions: Why is this in writing? Is the writer trying to set me up - trying to establish a paper trail for some unknown agenda? Is anybody else going to see this - has anyone been CC'd or BCC'd or will the author forward this on to other people? How can this be used against me? etc., etc.
I didn't come to understand this because I'm some sort of genius - it's because I made all the mistakes myself and learned the hard way. LOL.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 16, 2009 11:00:45 GMT -6
Coach,
How could you love an offense that got crushed in both games?
If I were in your shoes I would have taken baby steps, tiny changes at first.
Lots fewer suggestions
I agree with Matt, the more competent the coach, the more willing he is to listen.
When coaching for incompetents, most of them just dont know that they dont know. That's real tough to solve.
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Post by ducej11 on Sept 16, 2009 13:10:08 GMT -6
Coach, How could you love an offense that got crushed in both games? If I were in your shoes I would have taken baby steps, tiny changes at first. Lots fewer suggestions I agree with Matt, the more competent the coach, the more willing he is to listen. When coaching for incompetents, most of them just dont know that they dont know. That's real tough to solve. the problem was not the offensive itself. THe problem was he never took the time to really teach it to the kids. So our qb, who knew the formations and plays, had to take the first few seconds after the break of the huddle to line everyone up. And then they didn't really know what they were doing. The offense was a little too complex too. It was a spread style offense with 18 formations!!!!!!!! That's crazy! But I was willing to work with what the coach wanted but just wanted to maximize practice time. His practices are not structured. He kind of flies by the seat of his pants. So there is a lot of standing around.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 16, 2009 23:09:11 GMT -6
Of the content of your e-mail, only the last para. seemed in any way out of line. You were asked to help with the backs & receivers, so you were asking for certain tools to do the job with. But intruding on the practice of the OL was out of your purview.
And it is true as pointed out by other posters that you have no control of how an e-mail will be taken, and written suggestions may be misunderstood as non-negotiable demands. But I bet you thought you were being more diplomatic by putting your suggestions in an e-mail that could be read at leisure, where approaching someone personally may get a response like, "Can't you see I'm busy?" (And often the truth is, you can't!) And you probably thought you were showing how much you cared, how close att'n you were paying, and that you were a go-getter.
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Post by coach123 on Sept 17, 2009 6:26:48 GMT -6
Duece, I have been on both ends of your situation (although i didn't let my assistant go), you are always better off talking to the hc in person when he is by himself. Anytime you allow a person the opportunity to "share" your thoughts with others without being there to make sure they really understand what you mean is bad news. My suggestion is learn and move on to a system that fits your style and beliefs. Good luck!!
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 17, 2009 21:46:27 GMT -6
One thing to note is that the sample we get of coaches here is more prone to use online communications than the avg. out there, so they may be more prone to putting their suggestions in an e-mail -- because that's practically what we're doing all the time here. And even here, our attitudes, intentions, and meanings are often confused.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 20, 2009 1:37:37 GMT -6
duce---lets not let how well-written the email was cloud the issue. Basically, you spent one walk through and one game day with this team, ( a very unsuccessful team) and then sent an email essentially saying "Coach, it is obvious why your team is getting crushed. You should be doing this, this, this, this, this, this and this.... instead of what you are doing. "
Now, just because you are probably right...(and chances are a guy running a spread offense with 9 different formations dealing with 10-12 year olds doesn't know what he is doing) doesn't mean that guy you are calling foolish won't take exception to it.
Brophy is right. You are probably better off. You wouldn't have had a rewarding season.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
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Post by tedseay on Oct 8, 2009 9:42:51 GMT -6
Part of coaching should be understanding when a situation just doesn't mesh with your beliefs and/or philosophy. Learn from it and make sure next time you are working with people who share a similar belief system as you. In other words, avoid morons who scream at children.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 20:03:09 GMT -6
I'm willing to bet they's been through this before...this sounds more like a contingency plan, than just an off hand reaction.
We just had to do that ourselves...ok it was my doing
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spurred
Sophomore Member
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Post by spurred on Oct 11, 2009 11:23:47 GMT -6
Well I have a lot of input with our HC as far as playcalling and practice schedules, but I am in very close contact with our High School staff, as far as drills and fine tuning plays.....When I have a suggestion for him I don't beat around the bush with him, but he also knows that I have spent time and effort making sure that I'm not feeding him a load lol. A wise coach told me one time "If you feel you have learned everything about football you haven't learned a thing." I agree, I feel I have some football savvy but have so much more I need and want to learn.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 11, 2009 17:34:22 GMT -6
better off for you ducej11. Just like relationships, not everything (staff) is a perfect fit and we just have to leave it at that. At least you can find a gig that better suits you. This should be a good thing I second this! Consider it a blessing.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 11, 2009 17:36:26 GMT -6
When coaching for incompetents, most of them just dont know that they dont know. That is spot-on, Dave.
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Post by coachdbs on Oct 14, 2009 9:10:54 GMT -6
As a high school coach who also helps out with my sons youth team, the advice you all provided is top notch. It really is too bad that there are not more youth coaches reading these boards and learning.
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