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Post by coachvann on Aug 22, 2009 4:34:23 GMT -6
I just moved to a small school that has had losing seasons for the past 5 years-I think they have won five games the past five years. The kids worked hard this past summer...they said they never have worked harder. They busted butt during 7-on-7 and did well at lineman challenge. Our numbers even went up...we were expecting 14 players out but we ended up with 27!
All of the sudden we put pads on and start hitting and now I have 2 kids who are quitting, 2 other kids who have injured every tendon in their body (in fact one of them says he will be missing the next 4 weeks bc he "needs" surgery on a slight tear in the meniscus) and kids are starting to miss practice which is upping their discipline so they do not want to come back!
How do ya'll teach toughness and keep kids excited about the program and what you are doing?
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Post by blb on Aug 22, 2009 6:28:16 GMT -6
Be positive but demanding. Stick to your plan - don't compromise. First year, especially in a situation like yours, is toughest. But you must lay the foundation now. There's a reason they've been bad and I bet it wasn't all a coaching problem.
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Post by coachorr on Aug 22, 2009 7:18:40 GMT -6
Coachvann,
Congratulations, it sounds to me like you are right on track.
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Post by brophy on Aug 22, 2009 8:20:26 GMT -6
Those guys that are "soft", I've never seen one YET that was an animal in the weight room.
I've seen guys who were good in the weight room and had great physiques, but never really would grind with the rest of the team in the weight room.
80% of all that ails football programs can be fixed in the weight room (the time when you're NOT playing football).
"Everybody has the will to win.
Not many have the will to prepare to win" - bob knight
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
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Post by hoosier on Aug 22, 2009 9:16:13 GMT -6
i think toughness is all attitude. it can start with one guy and spread across the team. players like Ray Lewis and Bob Sanders bring tougness to their teams. as do coaches like Jon Gruden and Rex Ryan. if you want your players to be tough, you must first show them what that is. so if you're not a guy like Gruden or Ryan its important to have a player that sets the example you are looking for. you have to show your team what its like to play like a *insert school nickname*
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Post by phantom on Aug 22, 2009 12:04:29 GMT -6
Building toughness is one of the hardest things to do when you're trying to rebuild a program, IMO.
I believe that toughness is based on peer pressure. Look at small unit military dynamics. Guys perform because the guy next to him expects him to perform. Think about "Saving Private Ryan" where Jimmy Ryan refuses to leave "the only brothers he has left" or "Blackhawk Down" when the guy cuts the cast off his arm so that he can go out with his boys. Men don't run because that would make them a "buddyf*cker" and there's nothing worse than that.
In a soft culture sitting out a few plays with a bruise is OK.
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Post by blb on Aug 22, 2009 13:33:37 GMT -6
Old Bear Bryant quote: "If a dog won't bite when it's a pup, it won't when it's grown."
Have to teach kids how to block, take on blocks and shed, tackle early (biggest advantage of sleds, hand shields etc.) - feel for contact, build confidence.
Otherwise don't expect it. Now, commitment, discipline, conditioning, mental toughness - different issues.
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Post by airman on Aug 22, 2009 13:43:45 GMT -6
i think we create this culture of softness in our minds to be honest. I think kids are not less soft today then they were 30 years ago. what they have now that they did not have 30 years ago was choices. kids have more choices today.
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Post by coachjmcs on Aug 22, 2009 14:07:57 GMT -6
I disagree we played tackle football without pads almost daily when I was younger, that is totally taboo today, you can't tell me that that we wouldn't have walked in more willing to hit somebody than the kids today that play playstation all day.
I don't think kids are as tough as we were 10 or 15 years ago, and we probably aren't as tough as our fathers either for that matter......
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2009 15:35:27 GMT -6
80% of all that ails football programs can be fixed in the weight room (the time when you're NOT playing football). What he said! |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2009 15:36:57 GMT -6
i think toughness is all attitude. it can start with one guy and spread across the team. players like Ray Lewis and Bob Sanders bring tougness to their teams. as do coaches like Jon Gruden and Rex Ryan. if you want your players to be tough, you must first show them what that is. so if you're not a guy like Gruden or Ryan its important to have a player that sets the example you are looking for. you have to show your team what its like to play like a *insert school nickname* Lots of "fanspeak" here... |
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Post by brophy on Aug 22, 2009 16:05:21 GMT -6
"Toughness" is nothing more than competitiveness. If you aren't competitive, you can get distracted easily. When you have a certain competition in you... you take it personal, you have made an INVESTMENT into seeing the results (a win), and you won't be so willing to get distracted with temporary disappointments, physical pain, pressure situations.....and look for the easy way out. Have fun trying to conjure up toughness in a week or two in August, but the real answer exists January through June.... the secret to creating toughness... |
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 22, 2009 17:59:06 GMT -6
[/img] you take it personal, you have made an INVESTMENT into seeing the results (a win), and you won't be so willing to get distracted with temporary disappointments, physical pain, pressure situations.....and look for the easy way out. Have fun trying to conjure up toughness in a week or two in August, but the real answer exists January through June....[/quote] Excellent, Excellent, Excellent ... Seems like there is always talk about "toughness"... What should happen after reading this post is ...  |
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Post by alneufeld on Aug 22, 2009 18:00:08 GMT -6
I disagree we played tackle football without pads almost daily when I was younger, that is totally taboo today, you can't tell me that that we wouldn't have walked in more willing to hit somebody than the kids today that play playstation all day. I don't think kids are as tough as we were 10 or 15 years ago, and we probably aren't as tough as our fathers either for that matter...... The kids aren't allowed to be tough any more - might hurt someones self-esteem. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2009 19:09:10 GMT -6
[/img] you take it personal, you have made an INVESTMENT into seeing the results (a win), and you won't be so willing to get distracted with temporary disappointments, physical pain, pressure situations.....and look for the easy way out. Have fun trying to conjure up toughness in a week or two in August, but the real answer exists January through June....[/quote] Awesome. |
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Post by cbroughton on Aug 22, 2009 19:15:30 GMT -6
Totally agree with Brophy. All summer is when you gain mental toughness. If they are not willing to work in the weight room, then they will not stick their head in there during a physical play.
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Post by brophy on Aug 22, 2009 19:25:23 GMT -6
Maybe I'm mistaken, but there have been 15 or so threads about the elusive "toughness" since this site was created, complete with tangents about pussification, and the "easy way" kids have it, how tough "we" used to be.....all the while absolving our responsibilities as football coaches for controlling this element ourselves, expecting someone else to set our plates for us.
{censored}!! What you end up with up with at the end of the spring semester as a result of your S&C program is AS GOOD AS THE ROSTER IS GOING TO GET. Treat the off-season with lip-service and going-through-the-motions at your own peril, but it IS the main thing that will determine what kind of team you can expect to have next Fall.
* This is in no way directed at the OP
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Post by td4tc on Aug 22, 2009 19:26:02 GMT -6
Old Bear Bryant quote: "If a dog won't bite when it's a pup, it won't when it's grown." love that quote.very true. we hit a lot more in practice some years than others depending on team character.gotta put the hat in there without blinking.or take the hat off and sit beside me on the bench.once they realize they are more fundamentally sound and used to hitting than other teams and then start winning they seem to buy into it. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 22, 2009 20:08:11 GMT -6
I think maybe a better question is how do you define toughness....the guy that has to bang nails everyday to put food on plate..he's tough....is your 135# kid that gets the crap wailed out him everyday,never sees the field but can't get him off scout team..He's tough The kid who has has to face going home to nothing yet shows to practice everyday..He's tough...the kid that has the balls to stop bullying on your team and in the hallway?..He's tough...What about your starting MLB captain ...great player..goes out drinking..starts fights...sleeps in the class..treats his girl wrong...NOT tough IMHO
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Post by coachjmcs on Aug 22, 2009 20:21:06 GMT -6
I agree that there isn't any use in complaining, but if the question is are they as tough now as they used to be then the answer is NO.
I agree also that it is about competiveness, and confidence. you gain both by playing more often in my opinion.
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Post by coachvann on Aug 22, 2009 21:09:33 GMT -6
I am not asking if kids are not as tough as they use to be...I think modern technology and the microwave syndrome has answered that question...and I do agree that a great off season program will get the kids "tougher"....but here is more to the story- Our kids never have seen the inside of the weight room until last April when we got here...They knew what bench was; but they never squatted or power cleaned! We taught them and had a great 8 week session with about 20 of our kids (which is a majority)...one day we even sprinted (and yes, we sprinted all of them)40-40 yard sprints....only 7 of them made it through all 40...so our off season was a butt kicker.
But it seems like my kids were all fired up about football until the day we put pads on (which is when most normal football players get fired up about something). Now all of the sudden when we are doing tackling circuit, anything physical, or something with allot of running-I got kids with "injuries". Then a couple of kids, who went through off season, are quitting (I don't think they would have helped us, but I hate condoning quitting-no matter the circumstances).
I want to know what some of ya'll did to change the culture to bring toughness into your program. I know it is not going to happen over night-but what are some drills or some events you did to get your kids tougher?
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Post by blb on Aug 23, 2009 7:52:23 GMT -6
brophy's points about weight room and off-season (including running) are well-taken - but only one leg of the table.
Regardless of strength level, kids will develop toughness, confidence, or what we call "Contact Courage" when they are taught how to block, tackle, take on blocks and tacklers properly. Must be done at an early age - will not magically appear when they're juniors or seniors.
Some kids never develop it - just not innate - but fear can be a great motivator too. One of best WRs I ever had was hellacious with the ball because he just didn't want to get hit and would do whatever he had to to run around or away from people.
I have to ask, though - what was the purpose of 40-40 yard sprints? I don't think that teaches toughness, it teaches that football isn't as much fun as they thought.
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Post by mariner42 on Aug 23, 2009 8:56:06 GMT -6
If they're contact shy, you need to break it down to the moment of contact and then build backwards from there. Put them into the exact position you want them to be in at the moment of contact, show them how they should end the tackle/block/whatever, then slowly, deliberately, and repetitively build backwards until they're comfortable.
I hate saying a coward is a coward and we can't change that, I just think that at some point we progress past where some players are comfortable with the physical aspect of football in order to keep other players engaged and learning. Some kids will only need a few weeks of their freshman year to figure it out, some will need the whole season, some you just never see the light go on. But I do believe that everyone is capable, it's just finding the way to make them comfortable with the physical demands of the sport.
Also, weight room.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 23, 2009 9:07:47 GMT -6
Hard work. In season off season whenever. You need to make sure you set up an environment where hard work is the norm. In the weight room they need to be pushed to their limits every time they walk in, thats where you build the foundation in the off-season. But that is not the only place where you have an opportunity to "get them tough" just remember the weights don't hit back. You have to up the tempo in your practices and get after it. But you need to show them how to hit and how to tackle and all that as it has been stated above. Don't expect your players to be tough if they work hard in the weight room then you go helmets and shoulder pads every day in practice, it's a two part plan. Work your butt off in the weight room and then get after it on the field.
Also one thing that plays a big part is your training staff, if you have one. Do they allow kids to sit out for being hurt instead of injured? Do you allow kids to do the same. Do you push the kids to play through the discomfort that comes with the first few weeks of pads? Do they know the human body is not designed to play football and it hurts to play? That's a mentally that I think needs to be installed and enforced through out the season.
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Post by khalfie on Aug 23, 2009 10:19:32 GMT -6
Bullcrap...
You want a tough team? Put hot sauce and pepper in their lunch... that'll get it done...
If not, then see Brophy!
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Post by 19delta on Aug 23, 2009 11:22:03 GMT -6
Other thing that can't be overlooked is the confidence that comes when a player completely knows his assignment. Kids can't be competitive (tough) if they are tentative.
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Post by blb on Aug 23, 2009 11:57:45 GMT -6
Other thing that can't be overlooked is the confidence that comes when a player completely knows his assignment. Kids can't be competitive (tough) if they are tentative. Excellent point. |
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Post by formrbcbuc on Aug 23, 2009 15:13:14 GMT -6
I think that toughness does eventually come down to the individual player, but often times it needs to be coaxed out of kids, especially at the Freshman ad JV level. It starts in the weightroom, goes thru 2-a-days, continues thru all the hitting drills. Personally I have some issues with the mental toughness of a few JV players, I figure on implementing some Pride/ ALPHA drills to work out who s mentally tough and who isn't. Personally I'd rather play with a group that might not be the most athletic, but that is mentally ready to run thru brick walls, they won't quit on you in the 4th quarter. Also, going over what their responsibilities are helps out a lot. Something I know I need to help them with is convincing them the scheme is easy to understand so they can just pin their ears back and play ball.
the main reason for the "p*ssification" we see now aday is often kids are not held accountable for anything. Also the message they get from adults often is when the going gets tough tuck and run. Also, parents, family, and friends tell them that if omething isn't going right whether it is school or anything it's not their fault others are just out to scr*w them
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Post by coachbdud on Aug 23, 2009 15:37:07 GMT -6
I am a big fan of using the sled to teach toughness.
If you dont say anything the kids will always want to give up before the whistle, cuz pushing the sled is hard. When we drive the sled, if any kid slows up before the whistle then i jump their butt and they get punishment.
I think driving it for a long distance helps build physical and mental toughness, and that never quit attitude
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Post by coachvann on Aug 24, 2009 4:15:24 GMT -6
Thanks coaches!! Good stuff here.
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