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Post by schultbear74 on Mar 29, 2009 14:06:14 GMT -6
walk the walk, keep the talk.
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 29, 2009 15:01:57 GMT -6
All I am asking is - does this way of thinking lend itself to less accountability, less rational approach to getting it done? I would say no for the following reasons. First of all, faith, if it is true faith, manifests itself in obedience. Am I truly trusting God in a particular circumstance if I don't obey Him? Absolutely not. True faith leads to obedience. Like in football, if a player purposely refuses to do what a coach tells him to do but says that he trusts his coach, would that make any sense? Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, So if I truly trust God, then I will obey his Word in this aspect. Whatever I'm doing, (coaching, practice, preparation), I am to do it with all of my heart and with maximum effort. Why am I to do this? To please Christ, not look good for everyone else or not because it's fun for me. As for Christian coaches, I think the purpose of athletics is this, 1. To Glorify Jesus- In other words make Him look good. 2. To Give to Jesus- Our performance is a gift to him. He is not pleased with anything less than our best. 3. To Grow to be like Jesus- Football offers a great place to be tested and to practice characteristics that help us grow to be more like Christ. This is God's goal for us and he'll use victories and defeats to do this (which is why it is silly to pray for a win). hope this helps. |
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 29, 2009 15:10:46 GMT -6
Also,
This may be off the subject, but I really love this clip from the movie "The Big Kahuna" because it really pertains to sharing your faith.
In this clip, The young man is a Christian and was at a business convention. Instead of selling tires, which was his job, he spent most of the convention telling people about Jesus. He had just got into it with Kevin Spacey's character over this issue (who has just left the room) and now Danny Devito's character is going to give him a piece of his mind. I hope you enjoy this.
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Post by khalfie on Mar 29, 2009 15:23:12 GMT -6
Hot clip...
Outstanding find...
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Post by schultbear74 on Mar 29, 2009 15:47:15 GMT -6
Thanks for the clip. It is has a great message
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Post by spreadattack on Mar 29, 2009 17:30:40 GMT -6
I'm going to go off the deep-end here, so feel free to bail out, but.... If a coach is "of faith" and feels the need to share it with his players, obviously, that is okay. However, if a coach does not believe in religion, would we feel the same if he shared his views against practicing superstitions? Just thinking aloud, but are 'evangelical' coaches more inclined to believe in "systems" as the saving grace, (ala substance of things hoped for) rather than believing in that which they can teach? Whereas, I am going to run the Rice Krispy offense, and that alone will give us wins (ala, I just need to pray and God will take care of things) rather than taking the attitude of doing it all yourself (if I don't ensure this happens, it won't happen). All I am asking is - does this way of thinking lend itself to less accountability, less rational approach to getting it done? **(preparing to be cast out of the camp with the menstrating unclean women in 3....2.....1....) I'm not really sure if there's an answer for you, the idea that people who believe strongly in "faith" will look for some kind of faith based football solutions? Is it some kind of reverse corollary to the conventional wisdom (which might actually be false) that scientists as a profession (physicists, chemists, etc) tend to be less people of faith and devoutly religious because of their hyper rationality and skeptical natures? My guesses are that (a) it's really unclear how a person's approach to belief and faith might affect how they approach a profession (skeptically, "faith-based," empirically, etc) and (b) even if it did shape a brain, my sense is that people tend to look at their religious life and their professional life as separate, and where they look at it as connected it is via people rather than how they analyze it. But I really have no idea. I mean if you have a link to a study showing that people who tend to be atheists have different brain functions than devout christians (or muslims, or agnostics, etc) then maybe we could answer those questions. My guess is that the nature of this question and whatever scientific/theological questions it might lead to would be beyond the ken of anyone on this board, and ripe for being locked. The one thing that interests me is why is faith, and specifically christianity so tied up with football, such that this topic would even be asked and attract anyone. My very amateur guess there is that it is cultural: football is universal of course, but very heavily influenced by the south and southwest, and similarly faith is very prominent there (for a variety of reasons). Basketball is more east and west coast, and I hear about this kind of "faith" stuff and its importance less frequently with respect to it. But maybe there's something intrinsic to football. Who knows? These are the types of questions which interest me, but I'm too scared to discuss them here because they quickly turn into something personal, which is something I'm not so interested in. |
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 29, 2009 20:11:00 GMT -6
The one thing that interests me is why is faith, and specifically christianity so tied up with football, such that this topic would even be asked and attract anyone.. According to the book From Season to Season, sports and religion have been tied together for a looong time. If you look at ancient sporting events such as the Olympics or ancient Mayan sporting events, it was clear that these events were religious rituals performed in honor of the gods. Another point argued in this book is that American sports can be considered a folk religion by definition in three specific ways 1. It has a distinctive set of myths, values, beliefs, and ideologies like folk religions 2. It has collective cultic observances (games are like worship services where the whole community comes together, especially in small towns) 3. "It has a historical character as a common religion" (Hall of Fame is an example of this.) So if you look at the impact of sports on our culture, then a faith like Christianity that places a high priority on evangelism would want to use sports as a tool for evangelism. For instance, if i'm not mistaken, James Naismith invented basketball as a way to teach spiritual lessons to young men. This has been no different than other periods in Christian history as they have taken pagan religious obsevances and "Christianized" them. Most notably of this is Christmas which was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice. The Church used this holiday to celebrate the birth of Christ instead. So if sports can indeed be categorized as a folk religion, then one can see why the Church would want to "Christianize" it. For a more thorough analysis of the relationship between sports and religion, I'd recommend From Season to Season. To be honest I find it a difficult book and I just tried to glean things from it for the sake of discussion. hopefully this was coherent and helpful. |
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Post by brophy on Mar 30, 2009 6:02:24 GMT -6
"Big Kahuna", great movie, kinda like a post-industrial " Waiting for Godot"The last question was more in line of asking about coaching football from a secular perspective. And that if one didn't need to be apologetic for sharing their faith, then why should an atheist be ashamed at sharing their belief? Again, just thinking out loud. Yeah, spreadattack, I was just musing aloud - because I have no findings or statistics, just presenting a hypothesis. Just pointing out that if one follows an irrational path (superstition), will that irrational attitude carry over to how they view impartation of material (things happen without effort being put forth)? And I agree, it IS completely cultural (not that that is a bad thing). And I think, by and large, that is part of the question posed at the beginning of this thread. Separating culture and tradition from actual "faith" or true belief. It is like separating Nationalism and Christianity in America....they are so intertwined it is difficult to distinguish where one starts and the other begins. I started this thread / posted the question just to receive feedback, I am not sure there actually is an "answer" out there for what I was asking. coachweav, this thread specifically is NOT presenting a question of sharing faith / yada yada. I think you hit on a good point, though, whereas "doing all you can....with all your heart" is more of an emotional response than an actual rational one. Spiritual = emotional, and are kind of at odds with pragmatic real-time solutions. And this sometimes clouds the issue of actually 'coaching' (teaching) because we are really, really emotional (but that doesn't mean we gave the kids anything they can use.....How-to) Do Christian coaches apply that same faith and prayer to other aspects of their life, such as offensive scheme and player development. Are you asking... if faith and prayer are good enough for your spiritual essence, why not for other less imporant initiatives? not necessarily, more like....everything I do, I hit with a hammer. All day long, I hit things with a hammer and they get fixed. So when I am presented with a nut and bolt, do I just bang away with a hammer? Do I believe if I say "AllaKazaam!", good things will happen (rather than me going out and making good things happen) - am I more inclined to just believe good things will happen (without me really ensuring that things/works are done to make it happen) you should ask more questions like me... no kidding. 
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Post by unc31 on Mar 30, 2009 8:00:56 GMT -6
I am a Christian first and a football coach second. Everything in my life is offered up in prayer to God. I do not pray for wins, I pray that God will give me wisdom and discernment. I pray for my players all the time that God will give them the drive to be the best that they can be. I pray for wisdom when setting up the S&C program, I pray for wisdom when I game plan, practice plan, etc.
My true belief is that apart from God, I can do nothing. My hope is in him, my job is to bring him glory. Does that mean that I preach all the time and proselitize(?) to the kids? NO. It means that I do all things as unto Christ and I do not hide who I am. I strive to be a living example of how to do things the right way, not to be a preacher.
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Post by brophy on Mar 30, 2009 8:06:44 GMT -6
I am a Christian first and a football coach second. Everything in my life is offered up in prayer to God. I do not pray for wins, I pray that God will give me wisdom and discernment. I pray for my players all the time that God will give them the drive to be the best that they can be. I pray for wisdom when setting up the S&C program, I pray for wisdom when I game plan, practice plan, etc. My true belief is that apart from God, I can do nothing. My hope is in him, my job is to bring him glory. Does that mean that I preach all the time and proselitize(?) to the kids? NO. It means that I do all things as unto Christ and I do not hide who I am. I strive to be a living example of how to do things the right way, not to be a preacher. ....and what does ANY of that have to do with THIS thread? We're attempting to discuss specific issues rationally, sans emotion(al rhetoric). I sincerely appreciate your input and contribution and I am sure you have much to offer / insight - I just don't think this thread is addressing what your response detailed. Were you suggesting that God is giving you insight/leading you to answers and that that should suffice as "doing your best", rather than you going out and seeking the answers yourself through logic and reason? |
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Post by unc31 on Mar 30, 2009 8:57:04 GMT -6
My response is in response to a lot of the other questions and responses on this thread. It may not fit your original question but it is in relevance to the the other ideas posted as a part of the thread.
I guess in your mind it may be emotional rhetoric. To me there is no emotion or rhetoric to it. It is simply the truth that I live by.
And to answer your question, yes I do pray and expect answers. I also make sure that I am researching, preparing and diligently working toward the best end result. I do not expect God to hit me over the head with a game plan. I know I have to work at it and I have been very successful thank you. I will not be changing the way I do things.
Just because you do not necessarily believe it to be true that God helps those who seek him does not make it any less true. Not believing something does not make it true or untrue. It is a matter of your own faith. Someone may believe that a frog gives them power and insight. That is fine for them, but does their life prove that out to be true?
This is what God said and what I believe to be true: ( Remember, I don't care whether anyone else believes it or not)
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight." This is what I live by, not trying to argue, offend others or convert anyone.....just what I believe.
If I have offended you and ruined your thread then I am very sorry.
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 30, 2009 9:35:13 GMT -6
to the original question: What faith you are make no difference in coaching ability.
The core values in good coaches parallel many religions. I've never heard of hindu, jewish, muslim, buddist, etc. staff, but I don't think it would make one bit of difference in the coaching ability... good coaches are good coaches.
That said a non-christian staff might face other challenges not related to football coaching ability based on prejudices/fears in the community... but that topic is probably to big for this thread or even board entirely.
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Post by coachsky on Mar 30, 2009 12:50:53 GMT -6
I don't think it matter's much whether you a person of faith or not as to whether you can be a really great football coach or not. I have know some really great coaches that knew their sports, know how to win, and really help to positively impact kids. Some were Christian's, some were agnostic or atheist.
I was a youth leader and a football coach when I first started coaching and was very excited about the "potential" of reaching kids through my position as a coach. 10 years later I have a different perspective.
I am less focused on a scorecard of "winning souls", doesn't cross my mind. I have learned that it's better for everyone if I don't mix my faith "purposely" with football.
I just live out my life, try and walk the talk (but fall short of the mark daily), and find I have lot's of opportunity to impact players and people in my community. When people know you really care for them and want the best for them with no expectation on whether they adopt your beliefs system, you have more opportunities to get close to people to share what is important to you.
I enjoy it more too. I play golf and cards with a bunch of really great guys. On occasion have a beer or two with a bunch of coaches. I have friends that go to church, I have a lot of friends that don't. I also have a network of friends that will do anything to help a kid reach his potential, if a kid shows an interest in exploring his faith I've got a ton of resources and people to help him in his faith journey.
My sons is out for Track for the first time, so I went to his first meet last Thursday. I must have gotten over 50 hugs, knuckles, handshakes, chest bumps from current and past players from multiple schools, parents, coaches, etc. Not trying to sound like a saint or that I'm out to win a popularity contest, just saying that if you care about people, you get a lot back, more than you ever imagined or deserve.
Certainly doesn't make me a better football coach. I do think that there are a lot of people who consider me an advocate in the community for kids, along with my coaching friends, some Christian, some not......yet. I always have hope.
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 30, 2009 13:50:44 GMT -6
I think I understand what you are getting at now. Let me know if I'm wrong. does being a Christian make a person more succeptible to the belief in a system (faith in the DW for example) rather than focusing on the fundamentals? In other words, does being a religious person make you more succeptible to drinking the a-11 kool-aid j/k. just making a joke. |
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Post by brophy on Mar 30, 2009 13:55:12 GMT -6
Am I getting at your question? yup - thats it pefect analogy, too. "its NEW and INNOVATIVE.....therefore it HAS to work!" (missing the elements of what makes a team successful) |
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 30, 2009 13:56:55 GMT -6
I edited it, because I read a little more closely what you wrote |
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 30, 2009 14:07:38 GMT -6
I don't know, you may be on to something. I coach at a Christian school and we play a lot of other Christian schools who are TERRIBLE fundamentally. They run what's in vogue now (spread/33 stack) but they don't run it well. They don't know how to adjust, and they just look awful.
That is a good question
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Post by brophy on Mar 30, 2009 14:14:17 GMT -6
I don't know, you may be on to something. I coach at a Christian school and we play a lot of other Christian schools who are TERRIBLE fundamentally. They run what's in vogue now (spread/33 stack) but they don't run it well. They don't know how to adjust, and they just look awful. That is a good question And I really don't believe that is JUST because of faith-indoctrination, because you will find just as many public schools the same way (which doesn't mean those coaches aren't religious). I was just thinking aloud, whereas religion makes a virtue out of not critically thinking (faith), does that carry over (moreso, than one who doesn't think that way consistently) into how we handle other events? I hate how that comes off so negatively (or spiteful), but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. |
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 30, 2009 14:28:28 GMT -6
whereas religion makes a virtue out of not critically thinking (faith),. Personally, that kind of faith irritates me. Like when someone says, "Don't lie." And you ask them, "why?" and they reply, "because the Bible says so." "Well why does the Bible say so?" "I don't know. it just does." I think that kind of faith might lead to the football belief, "My super facemelter defense is better than yours." "How so?" "I don't know. It just is." No rational thought filled arguement as to why, Just the irrational belief that "it just is." |
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Post by airman on Mar 30, 2009 15:28:13 GMT -6
IF you want to offend many Christians marry a Jewish woman and Vice Versa.
I can tell you this first hand it is interesting water to navigate when you marry a Jewish woman.
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Post by warrior53 on Mar 31, 2009 12:50:03 GMT -6
Am I getting at your question? yup - thats it pefect analogy, too. "its NEW and INNOVATIVE.....therefore it HAS to work!" (missing the elements of what makes a team successful) Wow! I am I getting this thread? Are you saying that Christian coaches are less likely to run something "innovative" because they were raised in church? Am I way off here? |
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Post by brophy on Mar 31, 2009 12:59:20 GMT -6
Are you saying that Christian coaches are less likely to run something "innovative" because they were raised in church? Am I way off here? yes - you are way off base, and I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. would be beyond the ken of anyone on this board apparently |
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Post by warrior53 on Mar 31, 2009 13:42:42 GMT -6
I don't know, you may be on to something. I coach at a Christian school and we play a lot of other Christian schools who are TERRIBLE fundamentally. They run what's in vogue now (spread/33 stack) but they don't run it well. They don't know how to adjust, and they just look awful. That is a good question And I really don't believe that is JUST because of faith-indoctrination, because you will find just as many public schools the same way (which doesn't mean those coaches aren't religious). I was just thinking aloud, whereas religion makes a virtue out of not critically thinking (faith), does that carry over (moreso, than one who doesn't think that way consistently) into how we handle other events? I hate how that comes off so negatively (or spiteful), but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I came to that conclusion based on this response to what was said here. To me this is saying they just run the next system or the next new thing because it is neatly packaged in - "religion makes a virtue out of not critically thinking". I don't want to offend you here, but tell me how you meant this if it wasn't what I stated earlier in the thread. |
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