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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 6, 2009 3:43:40 GMT -6
In my experience you cant own it when a kid quits. You cant own it when he doesnt show up to weights and you cant own it when his parents are the ones complaining about the coaching. the kid and his parents need to ask themselves "did we do all we could to make sure that we were successful in this sport? did we do everything the coach asked us to do? did we support the coach in any way at all?" chances are they will answer NO to all of those things and in the end, the kid quit not because of what you said, he quit because HE IS NOT WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE FOR SUCCESS.
now, thats where you come in, you are a psychologist and motivational speaker and salesman. You have to find a way to close the deal, that kids not buying right now and his parents arent buying either. You can spend more time on the hard sell or you can go "make your money" on those that are buying. what are you going to do? a manager of a car dealership doesnt sell all of the cars himself, hes got people to do that for him, you need to do the same, get your leaders, kids, coaches , to get the sales going...they sell other kids , you just chime in when you can but you got to keep moving and taking those who want to go with you.
You dont owe a kid anything more than the same treatment and same opportunity to buy in as everyone else. do your best, then move on.
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Post by coachorr on Aug 6, 2009 9:34:25 GMT -6
I would have probably asked him "where have you been all summer?" No, come on DC, I would have thought you would have asked him into the office so that you could make sure he was okay and find out the real reason why he wasn't there this summer or perhaps go over the playbook one page at a time together in a non-threatening environment. Actually, the conversation probably would go something like this "Hey little buddy, it's all right, we are a 'family' here, come on back and let me get you a pop out of the fridge and tell me what is really going on in your life."  |
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Post by knighter on Aug 6, 2009 10:18:23 GMT -6
Some kids need football more than football needs them.
Athletics in general are merely the way we deliver the life lessons that we feel are important. Think of the valuable (critical in my opinion) lessons one can learn through athletics (in this case football).
1. Work ethic can and sometimes will determine success/failure as an individual. And it can be taught and role modeled.
2. Adversity. Life sometimes has a way of kicking you in the teeth. Are you going to quit, or are you going to fight through it. This can be role modeled and taught as well.
3. The ability to function within a team setting. I do not know many employers who do not seek individuals who can function as part of a team. No job within a "team" is unimportant" and someone has to do it. Again can be taught and role modeled within sports.
4. Details are critical to success. In football if you do not take the right first step, if you do not keep your outside arm free, if you take a bad angle etc. you limit your chance to be successful on every play. In the real world attention to details is a great way of climbing the corporate ladder.
5. etc. etc. (so I am not so long winded)
There is a reason fellas that Vince Lombardi (and several other "greatest of all time" coaches) have been asked to speak in the business world. The tie in between team sports and business/success in life/family/community is amazing if you stop and think about it.
Now a kid who can't play a lick can still learn life lessons (thus he needs football more than football needs him).
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Post by phantom on Aug 6, 2009 10:22:57 GMT -6
Some kids need football more than football needs them. Athletics in general are merely the way we deliver the life lessons that we feel are important. Think of the valuable (critical in my opinion) lessons one can learn through athletics (in this case football). 1. Work ethic can and sometimes will determine success/failure as an individual. And it can be taught and role modeled. 2. Adversity. Life sometimes has a way of kicking you in the teeth. Are you going to quit, or are you going to fight through it. This can be role modeled and taught as well. 3. The ability to function within a team setting. I do not know many employers who do not seek individuals who can function as part of a team. No job within a "team" is unimportant" and someone has to do it. Again can be taught and role modeled within sports. 4. Details are critical to success. In football if you do not take the right first step, if you do not keep your outside arm free, if you take a bad angle etc. you limit your chance to be successful on every play. In the real world attention to details is a great way of climbing the corporate ladder. 5. etc. etc. (so I am not so long winded) There is a reason fellas that Vince Lombardi (and several other "greatest of all time" coaches) have been asked to speak in the business world. The tie in between team sports and business/success in life/family/community is amazing if you stop and think about it. Now a kid who can't play a lick can still learn life lessons (thus he needs football more than football needs him). I understand all that. I actually asked that question incorrectly. What I meant to ask was how that applies in this situation. |
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Post by knighter on Aug 6, 2009 11:01:40 GMT -6
I simply asked how this kid is going to be taught those life lessons now? To me it is obvious he is not learning them at home for whatever reason. Can't reach a kid who isn't around anymore...
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Post by phantom on Aug 6, 2009 11:16:20 GMT -6
I simply asked how this kid is going to be taught those life lessons now? To me it is obvious he is not learning them at home for whatever reason. Can't reach a kid who isn't around anymore... How was that Delta's fault? He didn't cut the kid. The kid quit. |
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Post by knighter on Aug 6, 2009 11:43:40 GMT -6
The kid quit maybe because of the way the situations was handled...notice I never blamed delta at all. I know delta as a matter of fact, and I simply pointed something out. Face it some kids do not "live" football like we do, does that make them worth any less as humans? Does that mean we should just exclude them from the great teaching tool called football we have? I don't believe so at all. I am guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment that do not come out as intended...I have gotten better as a coach now that I think before I speak. My point is that delta can't help the kid now that he has quit, so the kid is missing out on learning some valuable life lessons.
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Post by tiger46 on Aug 6, 2009 12:05:34 GMT -6
I have to ask. What grade level was this kid?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 6, 2009 17:35:52 GMT -6
I simply asked how this kid is going to be taught those life lessons now? To me it is obvious he is not learning them at home for whatever reason. Can't reach a kid who isn't around anymore... In a way, the kid just learned a valuable lesson. If you dont do what your "boss" asks you to do for the good of the team/business, you will be forgotten, boss will find someone who is a CAN DO person. ...thats a life lesson in itself. he learned that a coach/boss doesnt want to hear excuses. he learned that its too embarassing to stick around when the boss has deemed him useless or hopeless or an underachiever/slacker in some way? I am not saying this is what I would have done, I am just saying there are lessons in what happened and more than likely the kid learned something. it wouldnt be the end of the world if coach called the kid and said "hey, im sorry i didnt handle that differently, cmon in monday and Ill be glad to help you with any of the lifts you have questions on and lets get you totally on board with the program " or something like that. my guess, the kid still doesnt come back. |
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Post by phantom on Aug 6, 2009 18:49:08 GMT -6
The kid quit maybe because of the way the situations was handled...notice I never blamed delta at all. I know delta as a matter of fact, and I simply pointed something out. Face it some kids do not "live" football like we do, does that make them worth any less as humans? Does that mean we should just exclude them from the great teaching tool called football we have? I don't believe so at all. I am guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment that do not come out as intended...I have gotten better as a coach now that I think before I speak. My point is that delta can't help the kid now that he has quit, so the kid is missing out on learning some valuable life lessons. I guess we don't really disagree with anything but the comment. I don't see it as having been unnecessarily harsh. If a coach says something that's out of line and a kid walks that's certainly on the coach. If a prospective player takes offense at a relatively inoccous comment- and that's how I saw what was said- that's on the kid. |
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Post by silkyice on Aug 6, 2009 19:57:52 GMT -6
If a kid is not in the weight room all summer, how is he still on the team?
Also, in the weight room or not during the summer, this kid is about to start practice and has never done a clean, ever? (If your team doesn't clean, fine. But this team does.)
What happened to last year, winter, spring? He never cleaned then?
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Post by 19delta on Aug 6, 2009 20:27:46 GMT -6
I have to ask. What grade level was this kid? Senior |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 6, 2009 20:34:28 GMT -6
What happened to last year, winter, spring? He never cleaned then? This is our first year at the school. Prior to this year, there has never been a real weight training program. Basically, the kids came in and did a couple of sets of bench press, curls, and leg press and that was about it. This particular kid is primarly a baseball player although he apparently did play quite a bit as a defensive back last year. His focus this summer was on baseball. He was involved in at least two baseball summer leagues and made it to weights maybe 4 times all summer. We saw him very little. Even if this kid didn't quit, he had a ton of make-up work waiting for him (if kids don't have a certain percentage of summer weight training sessions attended, they will make them up after practice). My guess is that the kid was looking for an excuse to quit and if it wasn't what happened on Monday, it would have been something else. |
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Aug 6, 2009 20:46:58 GMT -6
Try skipping your teacher work day and then asking your principal for all that BS on the first day of school. And yea, I know "he's a kid" right...sure, I get it...he's in HS...he's responsible enough to get his license, to drive a car, to get a job...and he is not responsible enough to come to weights SOMETIMES?? Don't sweat it, you're better off. DC, I couldnt agree more. Yes we call them kids, and they still arent technically adults, but a lot of them are all old enough to get jobs and to drive, just like you said. Being able to make it to weights, I think, is something that should be completely do-able if he is this old. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 7, 2009 4:24:41 GMT -6
We all have kids like this and ultimately it comes down to grabbing them and not letting them off the hook until you get their attention, review all of your expectations and have them sign off on them. Coaches are under scrutiny and under fire every second. Kids need to understand that coaches need to win so its up to the kids to show loyalty by doing what is asked, otherwise the coach owes a kid nothing. We do what we can as coaches to teach life lessons and help youngsters grow into fine young men, but its done the coaches way, not the kids way.
1) is making sacrifices. This kid isnt willing to make and sacrifices yet feels entitled to get one on one attention from the coach in a team setting. HE expects to be coddled. Thats how it presents itself to me anyhow. he needs to hear the coaching staffs expectations and sign off on them.
2) the kids selfish enough that he walks out on his teammates and coaches, because he didnt get what he wanted from his coach. he can go play golf now and learn life lessons associated with individual sports I guess. he needs to hear the coaching staff philosophy of team before self and sign off on it.
3) new program, coach just set a precedent without even knowing it- everyones expendable. you want to play football? this is how WE DO IT. its not about you. again, sign off on the idea that YOU conform for us, we dont conform to you.
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Post by phantom on Aug 7, 2009 6:16:31 GMT -6
What happened to last year, winter, spring? He never cleaned then? My guess is that the kid was looking for an excuse to quit and if it wasn't what happened on Monday, it would have been something else. Think? |
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Post by knighter on Aug 7, 2009 7:55:42 GMT -6
delta now that you explained a little more I have no issue at all. Again not how I would have handled it, but your comment to a senior in HS like this is not inappropriate in my book. Plain and simple I am in a different environment than most everyone on this board, and I take teaching life lessons IN football very seriously. I wish I had known when I began coaching 14 years ago what I know now, things would have been different (not that I did a bad job, but it was more about football and less about life...at least me tying them together)
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Post by 19delta on Aug 7, 2009 8:52:53 GMT -6
delta now that you explained a little more I have no issue at all. Again not how I would have handled it, but your comment to a senior in HS like this is not inappropriate in my book. Plain and simple I am in a different environment than most everyone on this board, and I take teaching life lessons IN football very seriously. I wish I had known when I began coaching 14 years ago what I know now, things would have been different (not that I did a bad job, but it was more about football and less about life...at least me tying them together) knighter - I know what you are saying and, given many of the responses, I do wish I would have handled it differently in hindsight. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 7, 2009 8:57:49 GMT -6
Delta, youre human, youre not going to be perfect, neither are your players or their parents. Its funny, folks think their coach should be perfect and never make mistakes....talk to the kid, if he wasnt just looking for an excuse he will listen to you. I had to do this a couple of times last year, kids that dont really know you yet just need more time with you.
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Post by touchdowng on Aug 9, 2009 11:19:11 GMT -6
"Ryan" sounds like the kid who comes up to the teacher just before the big project is due and claims that he didn't understand the expectations, etc. Even though the teacher has covered it explicitly, with various means of doing this and takes time to review each day where the students need to be. I've had my fair share of "Ryans" over the years.
He's either self-selected himself for failure (in this case, let him go and let somebody else save him from himself); OR He's just that slow in the head and really takes that long to figure out what he doesn't know (in this case, send him a lifeline and reel him back in), or he's just intimidated by what he sees going on around him (again, throw him a lifeline and help move him forward).
I'm assuming this is a high school setting? They're all worth saving but YOU can't save them all.
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Post by slydaddy on Aug 9, 2009 16:50:45 GMT -6
If this kid quit over what you said, then maybe he needs to develop thicker. The world is a tough place. And I don't buy this "he's just a kid"....Guess what? Just kids commit crimes, just kids get teenage girls pregnant, just kids cannot be an excuse at the high school level, i'm sorry. Coach, you didn't do anything wrong. I'm gonna coach the kids that show up with consistency, win or lose. Maybe instead of needing football, he needs his family to teach him some responsibility. That is how the world works! Just a rant on my part! Of course, I would have said the same thing and probably went to a senior in his group and say "show johnny how to properly clean". I'm playing devil's advocate here, so don't pile on too hard.
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Post by knighter on Aug 10, 2009 8:08:57 GMT -6
Okay slydaddy so it is not getting taught at home, and now you are going to bail on the kid too? So who is going to step up and teach this kid the life lessons? Sounds to me like social promotion, pass this kid and he becomes someone else's problem. You do it your way, and I'll choose mine. If it is to be, it is up to me. (and often times it is up to US as football coaches to do what the parents have not or will not do). Didn't say it is the way it should be, but it is the way it is.
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Post by superpower on Aug 10, 2009 9:55:48 GMT -6
I think knighter is correct in suggesting that we as fb coaches have an opportunity to reach kids that others (parents, teachers, etc.) might have given up on. Being a fb coach is about so much more than football.
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Post by k on Aug 10, 2009 17:08:12 GMT -6
I hurt a kid's feelings and he wanted to quit. HC talked to him. HC seems to hurt a kid's feelings enough that they want to quit on a regular basis. I talk them out of it seemingly all the time.
Kids are emotional....
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