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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2009 7:09:04 GMT -6
We are testing kids this week (VJ, 10-yard dash, 20-yard pro agility, front squat, standing press, clean, high pull, squat, and bench).
On Monday, there is a group of four kids doing cleans. I go over to observe a kid lift and he tells me, "Coach, I don't know how to do cleans."
So I tell the kid, "Ryan...it's August 3rd. Practice starts next Wednesday. If you would have got in the weightroom this summer, you would know how to do these." And then I walked over to the next group.
About 5 minutes later, I noticed that the kid wasn't in the weightroom. I walked over to his group and asked the kids were he was. They told me that he got mad about what I said and went home.
Not sure why I posted this other than to rant a little bit. I just thought that the kid was so presumptious to expect me to teach him how to do a lift that the other kids have been doing since January. And then, when I called him out on it, he gets mad at me instead of looking in the mirror.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 5, 2009 7:58:33 GMT -6
It happens. He was looking for a reason.
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Post by phantom on Aug 5, 2009 8:13:29 GMT -6
We are testing kids this week (VJ, 10-yard dash, 20-yard pro agility, front squat, standing press, clean, high pull, squat, and bench). On Monday, there is a group of four kids doing cleans. I go over to observe a kid lift and he tells me, "Coach, I don't know how to do cleans." So I tell the kid, "Ryan...it's August 3rd. Practice starts next Wednesday. If you would have got in the weightroom this summer, you would know how to do these." And then I walked over to the next group. About 5 minutes later, I noticed that the kid wasn't in the weightroom. I walked over to his group and asked the kids were he was. They told me that he got mad about what I said and went home. Not sure why I posted this other than to rant a little bit. I just thought that the kid was so presumptious to expect me to teach him how to do a lift that the other kids have been doing since January. And then, when I called him out on it, he gets mad at me instead of looking in the mirror. We had a similar situation. We had a soph OL who could have helped us this year but stopped coming to weights and said he was quitting. At our banquet when he was called up to get his ring one of the coaches told him, "Oh you can't get to the weight room but you can come here". When the JV coach called his mom to see if he was playing she told him that his feelings were hurt by that comment. Some guys just aren't cut out for this game.
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Post by amikell on Aug 5, 2009 8:17:58 GMT -6
ok let me add another perspective on this...couldn't you have said the exact same thing, then take 2-3 min to teach him how to do a power clean? Just a thought. I'm not saying the kid is right or that you were wrong, but couldn't you have just shown him how to do the clean?
I mean we have some kids that are goign to show up on day one, and while they should have been at summer lifting and camps to learn some of our basics, I'm still going to teach it to them.
just a thought.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 5, 2009 8:24:03 GMT -6
Time is the most precious commodity, who has time to go back and reteach stuff that has been taught and retaught over the last off season?
Certainly Id have given that assignment to one of the leaders but I wouldnt have done it myself either in most scenarios.
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Post by phantom on Aug 5, 2009 8:31:26 GMT -6
ok let me add another perspective on this...couldn't you have said the exact same thing, then take 2-3 min to teach him how to do a power clean? Just a thought. I'm not saying the kid is right or that you were wrong, but couldn't you have just shown him how to do the clean? I mean we have some kids that are goign to show up on day one, and while they should have been at summer lifting and camps to learn some of our basics, I'm still going to teach it to them. just a thought. Last Wednesday we had some new JV kids that didn't know how to clean. We didn't get mad that they hadn't been at weights- 8th graders live in their own world- but there was no point in spending time on teaching since we don't clean in-season. We just moved them to another exercise. That was because they were new and 8th graders. If they'd been prospective varsity guys we wouldn't have been as understanding. If he'd walked out, well, better now than later.
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Post by knighter on Aug 5, 2009 9:56:04 GMT -6
Let me ask a question (being Devil's Advocate that I am)
How did you help that kid? What lesson did he learn? If he quits football for good how will you now impact his life?
You had a teachable moment in front of you and you let it slip by you. You always have to remember to some of your players it is simply a game, not their life. Some will give you everything they have all of the time, some will give you everything they have only in season. But you need to give them all everything you have all of the time. You have the power to change lives, and in the process change the world in which we live. You can't do that for that young man now if you lose him.
1 kid at a time we can all make a difference.
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Post by blb on Aug 5, 2009 10:10:24 GMT -6
I probably would have said the exact same thing you did - then had one of the experienced kids teach him how to lift.
And he still might have left, or not come back next time.
You said he was in a group of four. The others were presumably doing the lift, which he could observe and then attempt with their help.
The fact that he spoke to you means either he wanted some attention from the coach (maybe thinking you'd tell him how glad you were to finally see him), or he wanted you to excuse him from doing cleans.
What does that mean? I don't know. I believe it's got to be their idea to be there and they must want to be good. But as phantom noted, the game and what goes along with being a football player is not for everybody.
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Post by coach4life on Aug 5, 2009 10:31:37 GMT -6
Not sure if it's right or wrong, but my gut reaction if his feelings are hurt: Life's tough, wear a helmet.
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Post by knight9299 on Aug 5, 2009 10:36:27 GMT -6
I figure 99% of all football teams have a few of these just show up in the fall team members. They may not produce on the Friday nights but they contribute in one way or another. And once the actual season starts- if a player is there I'm coaching his ASS up! In the end you shouldn't have to even worry about penalizing weight room/conditioning attendance- the penalty for not doing so will take care of itself.
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Post by coachorr on Aug 5, 2009 10:47:43 GMT -6
"What would I say to my own son?"
I can definitely understand your frustration and I too have made comments like this in passing, usually under my breath. Very frustrating. To just say nothing about it, however, does two things 1) it says it's okay to show up August 3rd and start working out and 2) it discredits all the work put in by everyone else who has had their hands on the rope pulling with their teammates in the right direction.
You didn't call the kid a freaking lazy peice of poo, you just pointed out to him what your expectations were. Would I have done it this way, maybe not, was it wrong...no. Would I say it to my own son, YES.
On that note, I think we catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar, so as a coach, I try to find those moments Knighter is speaking about whenever I can.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 5, 2009 10:53:52 GMT -6
Dont beat yourself up over it and do not think you have to own it every time a kid finds a suitable reason to quit. I had a starting cb quit because he wasnt the starting qb as a senior. he didnt even play football in his 10, 11th grade years....he found a reason.
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Post by brophy on Aug 5, 2009 11:41:55 GMT -6
got a case of the buttherts, eh?
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Post by bulldogoption on Aug 5, 2009 11:45:53 GMT -6
Presumptuous OR clueless..........its a fine line ;D I could have very well said and done the same thing. All these posts about scolding then teaching make sense to me. Then if he quits you have a better feeling for why and don't feel so badly about it.
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Post by mariner42 on Aug 5, 2009 11:50:17 GMT -6
Probably wouldn't said something similar and had one of his peers coach him up. That said, if it's the kind of kid that's continually pulling that kind of stuff, I do have a boiling point where I'm going to stop being understanding and be significantly more of a mean ol' grump. Habitual laziness/lack of responsibility/lack of accountability probably grinds my gears more than anything else.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2009 12:05:27 GMT -6
Good stuff, guys. I appreciate it. Definitely something to think about for the next time.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Aug 5, 2009 12:33:19 GMT -6
Had a few similar things happen a kid walked up to us who was working out in June and did not come at all during July and said "I didn't know the July schedule," we have been operating on the same schedule all summer long... Another kid said he couldn't make it because he couldn't get rides to our mornig practice, when I asked if anyone lived nearby he said I Might ask so and so, I said no you will ask so and so for a ride, the kid ooked at me like I told him I was gonna shoot his dog. It's really frustrating becaue we have had a very commited corps of about 30-40 guys all summer and thse new guys get pissed at us when they screw up and we get on them. It goes with the job and I take it if a kid doesnt know what he's doing it's my fault. Crack down on kids and say you don't come to practice you don't play
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Post by coachorr on Aug 5, 2009 13:25:40 GMT -6
Crack down on kids and say you don't come to practice you don't play What do you say to the kid who has been to everything, but is terrible?
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Post by poweriguy on Aug 5, 2009 13:38:10 GMT -6
Crack down on kids and say you don't come to practice you don't play What do you say to the kid who has been to everything, but is terrible? If his mom is hot.................well............ ;D
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Post by coachorr on Aug 5, 2009 13:42:27 GMT -6
What do you say to the kid who has been to everything, but is terrible? If his mom is hot.................well............ ;D Yeah baby, I love this game.
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Post by kcbazooka on Aug 5, 2009 13:49:38 GMT -6
we need as many kids out as we can - either I would have taught him or I would have told him to watch. i ran a kid off last year when he didn't show until two-a-days and I knocked him for not knowing the pass routes we had worked on all summer. he quit - and I am glad I was able to persuade him to come back out this season. he is not a superstar but by the time he graduates he will see the varsity playing field. for him being a part of football will help him out tremendously as a kid and in school.
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Post by coachbdud on Aug 5, 2009 13:56:40 GMT -6
some kids are just fragile
on my team i know what kids i can really yell at and get on, and what kids i have to talk to more calmly
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Post by knighter on Aug 5, 2009 14:01:45 GMT -6
Don't ever forget some kids need football more than football needs them.
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Post by coachbdud on Aug 5, 2009 14:03:23 GMT -6
Don't ever forget some kids need football more than football needs them. Exactly!!! Great Point
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Post by coach4life on Aug 5, 2009 14:21:22 GMT -6
Don't ever forget some kids need football more than football needs them. That's is a great point! I guess I've always known that, but never thought of it in those words...
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Post by phantom on Aug 5, 2009 14:24:12 GMT -6
Don't ever forget some kids need football more than football needs them. What exactly does that mean?
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Post by champ93 on Aug 5, 2009 14:57:46 GMT -6
I've been here once or twice.
Each time I told the kid that this is something his teammates have been doing for 7 months that he has chosen to not be part of, and I need to move to another group to help them, but I'll be back. He can have his teammates help him, but the one's who have made the commitment get my attention first. But I will be back.
Once the kid quit the next day, the other time the kid stuck with it, however he never really contributed, just wanted to wear the uni.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 5, 2009 15:08:52 GMT -6
I came back to this thread because yknow...we will go through this very thing just like we did last year. We have some new faces showing up so I have to teach the lifts from scratch anyhow. Also, any time we test we do a demo and lay ground rules for what qualifies as a legal lift.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 5, 2009 17:34:21 GMT -6
Here's what I would've done;
1. Stopped and taken a QUICK 5 minues to show him how to do a proper power clean; review the movement, give him the key words and turn him loose.
2. After that I would've had a told him that not knowing how to do cleans was directly related to him not lifting in the summer. Not in a confrontational matter; but just a simple-matter of fact conversation.
3. THEN, when it came time to test him on cleans, I would've made sure that he was using proper form, which means his numbers are going to probably be low. Then, I would again remind him that is he'd been in the weight room that he would've been a whole lot better off. I wouldn't try to embarass him, but keep him safe and prove a point.
So, in 3 quick steps; you've taught the kid a couple valuable lessons; how to clean, how hard cleans are to learn and that it takes weight room time to do so, and that he needs to get his butt in the gym.
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Post by k on Aug 5, 2009 18:36:03 GMT -6
Certainly Id have given that assignment to one of the leaders but I wouldnt have done it myself either in most scenarios. This is exactly what I do pretty much every single day. Find a captain or another senior and have them show the kid whats up.
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