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Post by outlaw92 on Jul 3, 2009 10:08:39 GMT -6
tell me if i'm wrong but I don't see why we need to cond. after pract. Here in TX we have 2 a days starting Aug 3rd--temps are already over 100 and the humidity is high. In 2 a days we will practice for a bout 5 hours a day for 2 weeks--if you practice @ a high tempo--a lot of reps--persuit drills etc.. why do you need to get on the line and run 4 gassers or 100's or whatever after pract.?
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Post by coachguy83 on Jul 3, 2009 10:22:39 GMT -6
If you feel that your guys are in good enough shape to play 4 quarters with out getting blown you are absolutly right. I know in my case coaching MS ball we condition because we don't get to work with the kids over the summer so they come in overweight and out of shape like the coaches. If your guys can go then I would take that 10 or 20 minutes and work on something more important.
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Post by gpoulin76 on Jul 3, 2009 10:31:48 GMT -6
I agree that a well-planned practice at a high tempo is sufficient as far as getting in shape to play football.
However, I think that there is a place for extra conditioning after practice IF you have the time to add it in. IMO, practice on the field should never be longer than 2 hrs and 15 min, and that includes conditioning.
Extra conditioning does teach mental toughness, can bond a team together, and build work capacity amongst the athletes.
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Post by airraider on Jul 3, 2009 13:46:30 GMT -6
We dont condition.. well let me rephrase that.. we do not do ANYTHING that does not directly correlate to something we do in a game.. If I want to get my receivers a little conditioning work in.. we line up pat n go again and run the deep fade with 2 lines as a high pace.. this gives them each close to the amount of time they will have between plays as a rest period.. 10-15 seconds..
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Post by wingtol on Jul 3, 2009 14:23:52 GMT -6
I use to think that way and we didn't condition a ton last year after practice like we had in the past. Needless to say it showed in our games last year. I think you can try and talk yourself into it but remember no matter how hard you try practice will never truly be like the pace or physicality of a game. This year we are going to try and condition for 5-10 mins. before we do team. We saw them do it at Pitt a few years ago and their thinking was it made the team sessions a bit more game like with the fatigue level.
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Post by whitebarb on Jul 3, 2009 19:41:58 GMT -6
We've run no huddle throughout the past 2 years, practices are high tempod and there is alot of hustling. There has been no problem with kids going 4 quarters, a bunch of kids going both ways. We go 20 Min Indy time than 1 hour no-huddle full team and ST. If you schedule practice to be high tempo'd and everyone gets tons of reps I dont think conditioning is very useful.
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Post by falconattack on Jul 3, 2009 19:59:34 GMT -6
Airraider is on the right track. Positional conditioning hits the best of both worlds. Oline can work technique, pulls, base to second level, pass sat then cover to a cone, etc. Each position gets a little more fundamental work AND some conditioning. It also allows each position coach a little more time to see who has the heart and guts to finish strong. Other then Base conditioning, which should have been established in the summer months, or tradition, I have never understood why anyone in football runs more then 20-40 yards per rep???
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Post by falconattack on Jul 3, 2009 20:00:22 GMT -6
Airraider is on the right track. Positional conditioning hits the best of both worlds. Oline can work technique, pulls, base to second level, pass sat then cover to a cone, etc. Each position gets a little more fundamental work AND some conditioning. It also allows each position coach a little more time to see who has the heart and guts to finish strong. Other then Base conditioning, which should have been established in the summer months, or tradition, I have never understood why anyone in football runs more then 20-40 yards per rep???
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Post by falconattack on Jul 3, 2009 20:03:03 GMT -6
Sorry about the double post...I must have hit the button twice.
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 3, 2009 20:25:38 GMT -6
Part of its physical and most of its mental. Our practices are very, very up tempo, we don't huddle and everything is on the move....our entire practice is like a two minute drill, however, we still like to do some form of team building/mental toughness conditioning both during practice and after practice. I don't care much for sprints or gassers, but I do like our Burma Roads and Team Pursuit drills at the end of practice as well as our mental focus drills.
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Jul 4, 2009 12:41:04 GMT -6
Here is what we are attempting this summer and fall in terms of conditioning:
I figured that we will have 37 football-related events this summer. I set a standard of 33 (90%). If a player attends 33 workouts/7 on 7s/ camp dates, then I consider them "in shape" once 2 a days begin. Therefore, conditioning for that player is not required. If you are short of that magic 33, then you must condition the number of times that you are short.
We practice for 5-6 hours during two-a-days at a high tempo, so I feel confortable that the kids who are at every session this summer won't be missing out! For those who slacked off, the message is to pay the price over the summer or over the fall. I fully expect that some of the kids who reached 90% will still participate in the conditioning regardless, we just have one of those groups this year...
We will of course still condition, but it will be masked as agilities, pursuit drill, disicplinary consequences for penalties, etc. So far it has been successful. Summer participation is way up! I will let you know how it goes come game 1!
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Post by bdwolfe22 on Jul 4, 2009 16:09:45 GMT -6
I have always felt that conditioning after practice was a waste of time. If you push your kids hard during the practice they should not have anything left to give you. Condition in indy stations, pursuit drills, 7 on 7 and team (speaking defensively). Get them busting their tails in these areas and the after practice stuff is not necessary.
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Post by CoachBrink on Jul 4, 2009 16:14:43 GMT -6
but I do like our Burma Roads and Team Pursuit drills at the end of practice as well as our mental focus drills. What are Burma Roads? |
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 4, 2009 18:32:21 GMT -6
The past few years we have done position conditioning - nothing like having the linemen push that sled - but we also do some team conditioning at the end of practice to remind all of us that it is a team sport. One of our standards is called 5 Minutes of Fun which could be anything from bear crawls to up-downs to ...? Its always up tempo and always a big rah-rah for our kids and coaches.
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 5, 2009 11:45:45 GMT -6
Burma roads are where we place 4 stand up bags about 40yds apart from each other zig zagged down the field, one team line with kids clapping and hooting/hollering while teammates are going...they run full speed and tackle the bags, 160yds plus the jog back to the line...we do it four times (4 quarters) unless there is overtime.....
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Post by phantom on Jul 6, 2009 7:32:00 GMT -6
Burma roads are where we place 4 stand up bags about 40yds apart from each other zig zagged down the field, one team line with kids clapping and hooting/hollering while teammates are going...they run full speed and tackle the bags, 160yds plus the jog back to the line...we do it four times (4 quarters) unless there is overtime..... Back in the day we used cross-body blocks instead of tackles. Thanks for bringing back that cherished memory. Years of therapy trying to forget Burma Road shot. More nightmares and sleepless nights. |
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Post by mightyo77 on Jul 6, 2009 8:18:52 GMT -6
Anyone ever try to condition at the beginning of practice?
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Post by phantom on Jul 6, 2009 8:39:03 GMT -6
Anyone ever try to condition at the beginning of practice? We've tried it by scheduling pursuit drills early on defensive days. The boss was a creature of habit, though, and often let the adjustment drill run over and cancelled the pursuit once we got into games. I never complained because our defensive practices get pretty physical and rigorous. |
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Post by coachsky on Jul 6, 2009 9:42:55 GMT -6
We are a no huddle "fast break" spread team. We build conditioning into every leg of our practice. We have no separate conditioning period, we consider our entire 2 hour practice conditioning.
We based our practice scheme off of new Wyoming coach and former Missouri OC Dave Christensen's practice style.
Here are some key elements:
- We run from drill to drill.
- We water on the go - water is everywhere, no need for water breaks.
- We add pursuit (5 to 20 yards) on the end defense drills and "finish" (running back to the LOS and getting the next play) to most offensive drills.
- we keep our drill cycles set up for fitness, 3 or 4 players. No long lines.
- we teach on the run and don't stop drills.
- Our offense is designed to snap the ball within 5 seconds after it's set. We run every drill like that. Inside., Skelly, Team.
Does it work?
We went to a local scrimmage series with 5 other teams. They started with 15 min periods. In 15 min periods we ran an average of 29 plays. Other teams ran between 8 and 14. Couple team couldn't scrimmage that way. They weren't ready for it, they couldn't come close to defending it, so we stopped.
We ran 189 plays in the first day. They cut back the period the next day to ten minutes or 12 plays max.
Other teams, we simply ran them into the turf. Their players were getting side aches, tapping out. Our kids were just getting warmed up. Our defensive unit that is so used to going against our offense, they hate the regular pace teams were playing at. They were bored and anxious.
Our kids would prefer a 10 second clock.
It's easy to build conditioning into practice. Make practices more intense, keep kids attention. Get off the field in less times with more reps and more conditioning.
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 6, 2009 10:01:14 GMT -6
Back in the day we used cross-body blocks instead of tackles.
Thanks for bringing back that cherished memory. Years of therapy trying to forget Burma Road shot. More nightmares and sleepless nights.
LMAO, I didn't care much for them either when I played......but they are good for developing mental/physical toughness. Most of our kids actually like them, however, I think their is a plot by some of our bigger kids to steal and burn the bags....LOL
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 6, 2009 10:23:57 GMT -6
Just so I'm envisioning this properly:
.o..................................x............
.o...............................................
.o...............................................
.o...........x..................................
.o.....................Y........................
.o..............................................
.o.................................x...........
o=kids cheering, x = pop up bags, Y = kid sprinting to next bag to tackle/earhole
How do the rotations/reps get managed? As many as possible in 5 min and everyone rotates through the line and cheers while in line?
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 6, 2009 11:22:10 GMT -6
4 times through (4 quarters of mental toughness) unless there is "overtime", which is given to the entire team for anybody loafing....say there is a line of 25 kids, as soon as the first kid hits the first bag, the next kid goes, so there are 4 kids going through it at the same time....describing it here it doesn't sound as tough as they actually are, by the 4th one your legs feel like lead, it takes mental toughness to push through it (which is what we want).....if you have more kids you can add bags or do a second station at the same time....but honestly having personally done them, that line can never be long enough...LOL
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Post by phantom on Jul 6, 2009 22:33:10 GMT -6
Just so I'm envisioning this properly: .o..................................x............ .o............................................... .o............................................... .o...........x.................................. .o.....................Y........................ .o.............................................. .o.................................x........... o=kids cheering, x = pop up bags, Y = kid sprinting to next bag to tackle/earhole How do the rotations/reps get managed? As many as possible in 5 min and everyone rotates through the line and cheers while in line? The cheering part is optimistic. Gasping and wheezing is more realistic. |
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 6, 2009 22:48:54 GMT -6
The cheering part is optimistic. Gasping and wheezing is more realistic.
In lots of cases several years gone by can lend oneself to exaggerate, however in this case, "gasping and wheezing" is pretty accurate...LOL...at least starting out the first few times...no doubt about it they are physically and mentally demanding.....
On a historical note, the reason that these were named Burma roads was after the famous WWII Burma Road supply line zig zagging through the mountains and jungles of Burma under fire from the Japanese, it was a pretty rough road....
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 6, 2009 23:01:49 GMT -6
I like it. Gonna mention it to the big man.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jul 6, 2009 23:28:08 GMT -6
Whitebarb brought up an interesting point.
They practice on the go and that means they are in better shape than the people they play. This gives them an advantage.
Let's just think this out for a second.
Why are they in better shape?
They practice faster than anyone else. OK
Their entire practice is one big conditioning sesson.
So they are actually tricking their kids into getting into this super level of conditioning that other teams can't match.
OK
Does this "super" condition translate into wins and loses?
I don't see why it wouldn't, or rather-do you ever lose?
How can this be applied to us guys who are NOT going to go no huddle?
Being in Central Florida, our problem is more heat than shape, although they both certainly go together.
We are also a very small squad in relation to most all of you, with many 2-way players.
Does anyone know of a small school with a number of 2way players operating a no-huddle system?
Or better yet,
does anyone run a super-fast practice for the expressed purpose of "tricking" the boys into shape and NOT be no-huddle on the field.
Does anyone go no-huddle and run the ball most of the time?
If I don't go no-huddle and I run the ball most of the time, would I benefit from a super high tempo practice?
And if it's possible, how would you do such a thing?
thanks,
OJW
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 7, 2009 0:09:56 GMT -6
OJW,
When I was in college we went no huddle for an entire quarter running triple option at the line. QB would audible right or left. Scored 21 points in the 4th quarter. I'm sure you could do it as a running team, but I would think you'd have to limit your formations. I think option running teams would be at an advantage due to the reading nature of the play, similar to the reading nature of a passing team.
I would think that if you got wristbands for the offense, you could call your plays the same way spread teams do. only instead of calling passing plays, you're calling running plays. For instance, you could have a call on the wristband that says, "Rocket on the line" You could have your quarterback call which way you run the rocket.
Bottom line is that I think it could be done, but I have personally not had any experience with it for a full game.
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Post by coachsky on Jul 7, 2009 7:53:22 GMT -6
If I don't go no-huddle and I run the ball most of the time, would I benefit from a super high tempo practice? And if it's possible, how would you do such a thing? thanks, OJW I think there are great benefits of a super high tempo practice that have nothing to do with what type of offense you run and whether or not you huddle or not: - Increased reps - business like, professional approach - Burma Roads? Sounds fun but I'd rather have 15 extra minutes to teach technique. - Intensity and pace reflects game conditions - We believe you should add a competitive elements to practice. Pride periods. Scoring inside, skelly, team. - Increases player confidence / mental toughness - they believe they will physically outlast their opponent. - Compliments lifting program. Are guys avoid getting too bulky. Some of our guys got a little too thick this winter. They are ripped right now. This system promotes speeds. - Helps coaches stay in better shape! I don't think you have to tie the pace issue to spread no huddle. We think spread no huddle and out pacing teams gives us a big advantage. However in the playoffs, in our run for the trophy, we will hopefully face a team or two that operate similarly. In that case we simply neutralize each other. But we won't be outpaced. |
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Post by brophy on Jul 7, 2009 8:16:28 GMT -6
Nothing like giving kids an incentive to hold back/reserve their energy throughout and save themselves for the end of practice.[/sarcasm]
We do realize we do end of practice conditioning as a legacy "wives tale" we have retained from the days of no off-season conditioning, no speed work, no strength & conditioning, and no 7 on 7.....?
If we are STILL trying to get kids in shape in August, we have obviously failed in the off-season.
Sometimes I do not understand the thought process of the Gitmo-prison-yard-workouts we sadistically try to come up with to "toughen up" kids. It isn't that hard of a concept - get your a** in the weight room and grind for 8 months
Practice at the tempo you intend to play
I apologize for this long-winded rant/vent.....sorry
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jul 7, 2009 11:53:38 GMT -6
From what I understand there Brophy,
the "Gitmo-prison-yard workout" is probably better than how I have it at the house.
Just sayin'
OJW
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