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Post by groundchuck on Jul 1, 2009 11:09:15 GMT -6
OK which is tougher.
The triple option team (think flexbone or I formation) with good personnel that bases around the ISV, Midline, and complimentary plays.
OR
Multiple I style offense that runs the ball downhill well (iso, off-tackle, FB trap etc), but also has midline, veer, and speed option from 1-back sets?
So with scenario "A" you have a polished triple team but that is more or less what you get. Scenario "B" you have a team that runs option but hangs it's hat somewhere else.
Thought this might be a good mid-summer discussion
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 1, 2009 11:16:36 GMT -6
A great triple option team is tougher IMO
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 1, 2009 11:25:02 GMT -6
the 2nd one. The triple will make you play assignment football. When you do, they'll pound it down your throats  One X factor though is if they run veer pass. Whoever runs that is going to be tougher to defend in my opinion. Makes you pay for using secondary to help with run support. |
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Post by poweriguy on Jul 1, 2009 11:28:19 GMT -6
Great triple team.
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Post by gschwender on Jul 1, 2009 11:31:30 GMT -6
I run a lot of option out of the i and it is the play that i feel is toughest to defend, but i do not necessarily hang my hat on it in the sense that it is the only thing i run. i see a bunch of teams like air force that if they cannot run the option they are screwed and i really do not like to be in that situation. I run the traditional I but also have the pwr I, wishbone, and i offset the fb on a lot of stuff. will also run a little shotgun. i like to run a bunch of other stuff well and will not run the option or variation of it on every play. in my opinion though the option as well as play action off option is the best play that can be run IF taught correctly. I would say that i hang my hat on it but it is not the only thing we can run well.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 1, 2009 15:28:44 GMT -6
Does it change the scenarios if the "true option" team runs 1-2 true power plays from the same formations as they run option from? A lead play, and a kickout/offtackle play execute well?
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Post by hsrose on Jul 1, 2009 17:07:34 GMT -6
I'm the new HC so I get to make the call on this one for us this year. The past 5 we've been an "option" team but were heavily influenced by the local "Guru" (275+ wins, helped implement the offense and concepts) who ran option but would call it and whose claim to fame was the time he ran lead/iso 27 times in a row over 2 games.
Accordingly, the team ran option, but was always looking to run power (lead, trap). What happened is that we ran power ok, and ran option ok. Couple of good quarterbacks made it workable. But neither was as good as they could have been had they been the focus. I think that each took away from the other.
This year I'm going as an option team. 4 of my 6 base plays are option - triple, midline, speed, and trap option. Rocket sweep and trap fill out the other 2 slots. We're going to be a team that runs option, several types, and runs it well. We will power up with wishbone and run lead, but our strength will be running the option. We will be flexbone, wishbone, ace, and I/slot. Majority will be flexbone.
It will be an interesting year for us all with this change in focus.
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Post by coachdawhip on Jul 1, 2009 19:20:00 GMT -6
I have watch wing-t power teams, that run some midline, veer, and belly option. Kill people harder to stop than pure option.
I formation mix teams are easier to line up to and rep
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 1, 2009 19:50:28 GMT -6
I would say the pure triple team..especially if they mix in some unbalanced formations
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 3, 2009 22:26:16 GMT -6
we're small, so we'd rather a team run option than power. Last year, we played a gun option team that ran veer and GT option. Absolutely murdered us with the QB GT. Just flat out ran us over.
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Post by kylem56 on Jul 3, 2009 23:44:17 GMT -6
a solid triple gun option team would be much more difficult. If they have answers for our defensive adjustments it can be a long night
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jul 4, 2009 3:22:52 GMT -6
THE TOUGHER TO DEFEND QUESTION MIGHT BE ANSWERED BY WHICH TEAM EMPLOYS MISDIRECTION AND PLAY ACTION BETTER AS WELL.
I think most teams can run some power plays well in addition to their option. the question is, can they pass a little with play action? That is going to effect how we defend option much moreso than if they can power it at us as well.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 4, 2009 6:14:51 GMT -6
One key aspect might be YOUR schedule. If you play 6 triple teams, then it loses the rarity advantage. You will be able to gear up your defense with adjustments to stop the basic option, as well as the potential adjustments (lead/load etc. ). However, if you play 9 spread teams and one full blown triple, you probably won't have the tools necessary to best compete against an option based club. Option based clubs run their base, then they have adjustments to take advantage of your assignment football. Teams that add the option as a play or two generally don't take this second step.
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Post by bruincoach on Jul 4, 2009 7:50:36 GMT -6
Great Triple Option offense that changes formations and blocking assignments.
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Post by phantom on Jul 4, 2009 10:00:06 GMT -6
OK which is tougher. The triple option team (think flexbone or I formation) with good personnel that bases around the ISV, Midline, and complimentary plays. OR Multiple I style offense that runs the ball downhill well (iso, off-tackle, FB trap etc), but also has midline, veer, and speed option from 1-back sets? So with scenario "A" you have a polished triple team but that is more or less what you get. Scenario "B" you have a team that runs option but hangs it's hat somewhere else. Thought this might be a good mid-summer discussion True option team that runs power stuff well. Power team that runs option well. What's the difference? |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Jul 4, 2009 16:10:07 GMT -6
a solid triple gun option team would be much more difficult. If they have answers for our defensive adjustments it can be a long night So do you think them being in the gun makes it tougher on defenses than running triple from the I? If so, why? |
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Post by td4tc on Jul 4, 2009 16:18:45 GMT -6
being in the Gun definitely makes it tougher to defend because now there is the threat of pass on every down and PA is still very good despite what some say.Gotta be able to throw it though.that's what really impressed me about Demeo was combining the option game with the passing game and that was one of the main reasons he went to GUN...the balance is what makes it murder to defend IMHO.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Jul 4, 2009 17:21:48 GMT -6
being in the Gun definitely makes it tougher to defend because now there is the threat of pass on every down and PA is still very good despite what some say.Gotta be able to throw it though.that's what really impressed me about Demeo was combining the option game with the passing game and that was one of the main reasons he went to GUN...the balance is what makes it murder to defend IMHO. But you can still throw it from UC too. I don't get this line of reasoning. Are you saying that having the QB start from a deeper point in the backfield enhances the passing attack because he doesn't have to drop back or roll out? I do know that option passes can be deadly IF you can protect the QB. I can see how the gun would facilitate this. |
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Post by lnueva32 on Jul 8, 2009 21:23:09 GMT -6
Great option team is tougher to defend. When you based your offense around the option you have to rep it to be successful at it. Teams that feature the option in their offense usually have a very good TB but the option suffers because the lack of repetition.
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Post by lochness on Jul 9, 2009 10:43:58 GMT -6
being in the Gun definitely makes it tougher to defend because now there is the threat of pass on every down and PA is still very good despite what some say.Gotta be able to throw it though.that's what really impressed me about Demeo was combining the option game with the passing game and that was one of the main reasons he went to GUN...the balance is what makes it murder to defend IMHO. How does the "gun" present a threat of pass every down as opposed to an "under center" look? We're "under center" and we have been known to throw the ball more (often and effectively) than some of the "gun" teams in the area at times. The whole "you gutta git in da GUN to have BALANCE" rhetoric gets old sometimes. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 9:07:13 GMT -6
Tough question, however I said pure triple, it's just so tough to defend, however I don't know of any triple teams that don't have some sort of power runs within their playbook.
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Post by teachcoachwm on Jul 12, 2009 20:57:34 GMT -6
Pure triple option would be tougher, because I can't overload the offense anywhere.....vs a Power team, they are probably not equally good everywhere, so I overload where they are strongest...the threat of triple option doesn't allow you to do that...
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Post by td4tc on Jul 12, 2009 21:37:34 GMT -6
just different strokes lochness monster but honored that you threw a little chirp ( dig ) at me cause i enjoy your posts,
Gun definitely gives illusion of more of a threat of pass than UC.surely i wasn't implying you can't have balance or pass out of UC.now with Gun triple added we're definitely giving defenses more trouble and deception. proof was in the results this year.load the GUN for me until i run out of bullets.
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rbarry
Freshmen Member
Posts: 18
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Post by rbarry on Jul 13, 2009 13:48:35 GMT -6
True Triple. Those teams are great at what they do because that is all they do. And we dont see it a lot any more, so trying to get kids prepared to defend triple and the "mentality" that great triple teams have becomes tougher. I have a coach that i coach with that is in love with triple and wishes our HC would change. The more i talk to him about it the more I am sold on the idea.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 13, 2009 18:49:34 GMT -6
IMO, SBV is the toughest offense to defend, and not just because it's my favorite. It's the worst for us to defend.
1. Being able to run ISV, OSV, and Midline to either side of the formationb (especially OSV), basically limits you to quarters coverage. You have to have safety force on both side of the formation.
2. Combine the plays above with plays that stretch the DE (power sweep, quick pitch, and fly sweep) makes life for our DEs miserable.
3. Having some other complimentary plays that work off of veer is a pain too: especially QB follow off of ISV AND OSV action.This keeps our LBs from crashing on the dive and forces us to play ISV and OSV one way.
4. Teams that run PA passes and screens off of ISV and OSV looks are a pain in the a--.
With the SBV, you do lose some of that "Power Potential"; Iso and Power (FB kick-out) are tough to run. And, you are stuck playing one of your best athletes at QB; at least a guy in the top two. It makes it tough if that guy goes down.
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